* Steven White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [050712 09:37]:
> Now that the Microsoft antitrust settlement is in place and Microsoft =
> theoretically can't bully computer makers, would it be possible to get =
I think that would still be *very* difficult to accomplish with
Microsoft PCs. I believe that M$ is still *very* capable of in the
"bullying" area.
But, linux is another ball game, a much more open community, and
having rebol bundled with most linux distros is in my opinion
quite doable and philosophically capatible with the "linux way"
> REBOL pre-installed on all new computers? Just the free version, of =
> course. I have thought of some script ideas to give to people I know, but =
> if I do that I have to tell them how to obtain REBOL first. I think it =
> would be nice to have REBOL pre-installed on all Windows computers and in =
> all Linux distrubutions. I know it is "easy" to download and install =
> REBOL, but I have done it a number of times and there still is something =
> confusing about it (I have commented on that to the REBOL feedback).
On linux, much easier, :-) but as modules grow, could become more
complex. There is much to learned from the "Wise" installed programs
used on windows but rebol's network power can be leveraged to make
more complicate installs simple.
> This final item probably is not relevant because any language has its own =
> strengths. If there is something one wants to do and it can't be done =
> easily in REBOL, the answer probably is to find a language where it CAN be =
> done. One does not fiddle bits in COBOL, for example, although it can ge =
> done with effort. It seems that REBOL is not designed for "data processing=
> " kinds of operations, but a lot of what people do with computers is data =
> processing in some form. The example in my mind is files. In my world, =
> files are composed of records, like the employee record of a payroll file. =
> It seems that REBOL is not designed for that. One reads a whole file =
> into memory, perhaps as a big block, and writes it back all at once.
Hmm... have you tried read/lines?
From my experience (being a database programmer for 16 years) so much
data processing is being done these days uses RDMS and having used the
rebol mysql protocol for years, and also being a python programmer, I
must asset that data processing in REBOL from an RDMS is *far* more
efficient codewise than in python.
> idea showed up in the first REBOL book, the Official Guide, I believe, =
> where one logical file in the video store data base was actually broken up =
> into several physical files just because there was not a way in REBOL to =
> read one "record" of a "file." I wonder if that might be a deficiency of =
> REBOL worth investigating.
It's worth considering that the "Official Guide" was written in 2000,
if I recall, and whereas I don't have time to review the book right
now, it seems to be that many of Elan's efforts were aimed at
illustrating the language and he did a good job of leveraging rebol
for random access into data.
It is my opinion that rebol's strengths can also be weaknesses if not
understood well or illustrated fully. And there I think you hit it on
the head regarding a higher level of annotation. Rebol has many
subtle levels of evaluation and binding, and has "mutable" control structures.
I.E. control structures are subroutines. It occurs to me that these
are also the dual strength/weakness attributes of LISP, from which
rebol derives much. I've looked at a lot of distributed rebol code
that appears to be doing amazing things and is virtually ondocumented.
> I have not given up on REBOL. I am trying to think of some application at =
> work, where we have 400 desktop computers, that is so cool everyone wants =
> it, and that would require loading REBOL on all our computers. No luck =
> yet.
>
>
> Steven White
> City of Bloomington
> 1800 W Old Shakopee Rd
> Bloomington MN 55431-3096
> USA
> 952-563-4882 (voice)
> 952-563-4672 (fax)
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/07/05 10:21 AM >>>
> Prompted by my last comment, I just wanted to add something...
>
> I agree that REBOL tutorials are very important to "visitors" who
> are checking out the language for the first time.
>
> The way I view it is: if the userbase is not constantly growing
> then there is something wrong with the approach or wrong with the
> product (language).
>
> This is sometimes called "stickyness". People come visit the site,
> check out a few pages, but then... do they stick? Do they download
> it? Do they give it a fair chance?
>
> I think it is very important. But, I also think that we have a long
> way to go to improve our intro examples and tutorials. That was one
> of the main reasons I created the cookbook a few years ago. But,
> actually the cookbook is not enough.
>
> I know a lot of people who use REBOL and love it. But, I also know
> too many people who have tried it and not "stuck". I wish I knew
> more about why... and also what we could do to improve the stick
> factor.
>
> So, what do you think is the #1 thing we can do to get greater
> stickyness? I estimate we get more than 15,000 visitors checking
> out "newbie" pages each month. How can we get more of them learning
> and using REBOL?
>
> -Carl Sassenrath
> REBOL Technologies
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Tim Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com
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