Christine, Thanks for your well thought out comments on the ability for the People to control the collateral damage within their communities. I sometimes think the term 'education' is used loosely in such contexts. I believe that the only significant form of education success in the case of various forms of abuse is that of role models. It is a well known fact that among Europeans almost as many alcoholics come from abstemious homes as from alcoholic homes. It is in fact homes where alcohol is used reasonably that produce the most reasonable drinkers. I see no reason why this truism should differ significantly in the case of Aboriginal Peoples. Unfortunately the truth of this is that in Aboriginal Communities it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I maybe on a wrong track altogether with this suggestion but I think it needs consideration.
The other point is that experience has shown me that self-help systems such as AA do not work as well in Aboriginal Communities as in the 'white' communities. My observation has suggested to me that the AA programme is based upon one exerting individuality, that is resisting outside influences such as peer pressure. For Aboriginal people this is culturally almost impossible. These comments may appear off the track of your argument, but I think they are knowledge that can maybe form one cog in a huge gear wheel. I too am always aware, as a white male, of intruding unduly into Aboriginal affairs, but in one sense Aboriginal Peoples have a tradition of less than 200 years of experience with alcohol. Europeans have experience far beyond that time. At such a time we (Europeans) are faced with the tricky situation of communicating with the People. This is not an easy task but one I succeeded in doing during my period with the People. It can be done without appearing patronising, even being part of the discussion, but it takes enormous patience and consideration. This is not a criticism of Aboriginal communication, rather it is the culture that should be brought to all discussions. If we all conversed this way rather than our normal adversarial manner, I believe the world would be a better place. Strangely, I find it easy to speak with Aboriginal People to form a consensus, but difficult when among my own colleagues! Cheers, Ian J. Henderson Philosophy Department Murdoch University 24 Harfleur Place Hamilton Hill Western Australia 6163 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: 61 8 9418 3792 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Howes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [recoznettwo] The Age: The politics of pain > Good points from both of you, Laurie and Ian, and I guess I can see some of > the merits of Sutton's observations as well - it ain't an easy question, not > by any means. Having said that there are also bits I disagree or am not > sure about from all three, and my comments here are in regards to Cape York, > mostly in the light of the Justice Report, and perhaps Queensland DOGIT > communities in general - not elsewhere. All I am hoping to share here are > my opinions and observations based only on my own personal experiences and > on what I have been hearing over the past couple of weeks which I hope will > offer some light or awareness of how perhaps community people, particularly > those on Cape York, are dealing or thinking about these issues. > > Before I start I would also like to say that I am hoping what I write here > will stay here, and by that I mean within this list - there are things I've > spoken about here written largely within the context of what has been > discussed already and could perhaps be taken out of context in other > circumstances. I realise there's no guarantee about that but would like to > hope my request will be honoured - if anyone would like to see something for > publication or further distribution on these issues or for me help you to > contact some of the people I have paraphrased (which I would prefer), please > feel free to contact me. I'd probably like to write more about that but > this is long enuff so read on..... > > The feeling I've gotten from people on the Cape is firstly that it is both > trite and useless to take control of the canteens away from the councils - > splitting hairs, if you like. Apart from the potential loss of income > across the board (see the report's recommendations for the terms of income > replacement from the canteens), they are one of the few locally owned > enterprises on some communities, even if many are managed on a day to day > basis by non-community people. The councils hold the licenses and at least > part of the problem is the licensing conditions themselves - eg they ONLY > sell beer. It's not so much that the council somehow has a hand in > destroying their own people - or that they are motivated to destroy their > own people by virtue of their ownership of the business or license - the > councillors are community people too and it would be a nonsense to suggest > they or their families are immune from the resulting problems. And I > certainly don't mean to say here that there's a problem with them not > selling harder or other liquor, the thing is it also means that at these > canteens you can't buy anything else - not soft drink nor even get hold of a > glass of water. You also can't buy food. The *only* thing you can buy is > beer. This is, in part, where "sly groggers" get a look in re the sale of > harder liquor as well as the fact that sly groggers will allow their > customers to 'book up' on credit whereas the canteens will not. I'm not > saying this is right, I'm simply trying to illustrate in part why it is that > sly groggers - known without doubt to everyone on the community and > including (altho not exclusively) community (family) people themselves - are > able to continue to operate. The Liquor Licensing Commission in Qld has > recently committed $2m over two years towards consulting with and addressing > some of these problems with community councils, the Queensland Government > and other agencies, including health. > > Secondly, with the canteens under the control of the councils they are able > to decide when and how alcohol will be sold according to the prevailing > conditions on the community at the time. For example, much of the time I > have spent on communities has been at events such as sports carnivals.... if > the event is nominated as being 'dry' the council might only sell within the > canteen if indeed the canteen is opened at all on that particular day or > days. If it's okay for people to drink at the event (and some of the > carnivals are sponsored by brewing companies - and again, I'm not saying > there's right or wrong here - it's *their* choice) they might only sell > takeaway. I'm not sure that a value judgement on their behalf necessarily > comes into it here - the point is that they have control of the opening > hours and what and how alcohol is sold. An outsider is going to be far more > either personally or corporately profit oriented than a local council and if > it is the case that alcohol is going to continue to be sold on communities, > an outsider is not necessarily going to correctly guage the prevailing > conditions on the community at any given time - nor necessarily care. > > Thirdly there are mixed feelings about a total alcohol ban on communities. > Again, the prevailing feeling appears to be that it simply won't solve the > problem, even tho opinions about whether some communities should be declared > dry or not are mixed - that's something they are working through on an > individual community level. But apart from that, it is generally known and > agreed that sly grogging is rife on many communities and policing is far > more the issue - until the practice is brought under control it's pointless > to close down the canteens because it simply won't stop alcohol being > available and removes much of the existing, if inadequate or lacking, > control. I think also some good points have been made re the banning of > alcohol merely shifting the problem to larger towns and cities where alcohol > is freely available to anyone - the so-called 'park problem' is a media > favourite here and across north-western Queensland albeit mostly because of > visibility. Napranum is a better, altho smaller scale, example here where > the (mostly women) elders did not want the canteen to go as they told Judy > Spence when she "consulted" about the Justice Report five days after it was > released. If the canteen was taken out of Napranum, drinkers would simply > either drive themselves or go via cab ($50 return - it's 15km one way) to > Weipa and buy their alcohol there - and not so much with the remote > communities, of course, but with probably half of them there are alternative > alcohol outlets within an hour or so's drive from the community itself. > > I also fail to see how, combined with all of these other factors - sly > grogging, loss of community control, etc - even a timely and somehow > conditional banning of alcohol would solve the problem. Listening today to > representatives of the ACC there was one point in particular that stuck with > me and this came from a community person - that these people have never been > taught how to drink. The conditions I've outlined above have prevailed - eg > selling beer only and nothing else - on the communities since they have been > allowed alcohol. You may be aware that it was the Queensland government who > put the canteens on the communities in the first place - on average, at some > time in the early 1970s after the 1967 Referendum - and ran them themselves > until the councils "took over" (such as it was/is) the former missions and > reserves and changed them to Deeds of Grant in Trust land tenures in 1984. > There were no eduation programs, the canteens were put there and that was > that. Initially they sold alcohol during set hours, between 5-7pm or > similar, whereupon people would drink as much as they could in the time > allowed and then all hell would break loose on the community... I'm > paraphrasing here but is close to what has been said. Most of the community > councillors I have spoken to or heard speak on it do *not* want a return to > these types of conditions. > > Add to all this Foetal Alcohol Sydrome and all the other health, education, > family violence and generational etc related problems and you have, > basically, a mess which the majority of people I'm hearing say is not going > to be solved simply by banning alcohol *unless the community decides for > itself it should be dry* which I perceive at the very least gives the ban a > chance of becoming a dominant social paradigm. However, at this point in > time and given most of them don't believe such a strategy would work, they > disagree with a total ban. > > As usual I am hesitating to send this partly because I feel I have 'skated' > over the issues but also because as a non-indigenous journalist for Koori > Mail who has been lucky enuff to spend time on these communities, largely > because of the opportunities offered by my other primary job as a media > officer for the ACC, I am generally pretty wary of offering an opinion (or > for that matter setting myself up as some kind of expert on things outside > of my own cultural and political sphere) - in both cases I see my job as one > of reflecting and reporting, not analysing and opinionating which is > something I generally try very hard not to do and is relatively easy when > writing as a journalist in both capacities (ie Koori Mail and ACC work). > > However, as I hope I have made clear, I have written this in the hope of > shedding some light and understanding within this forum of how the people > who have to live with the day to day aspects of this stuff on the ground are > dealing with and thinking about these particular issues which have largely > been raised by people outside of the Cape (with the noteable exception of > Noel Pearson, at least in the media). What I have written here is based > only on my own observations and experience (three years in south east > Queensland, three years based in Cairns) and what I have been hearing from > community people themselves, particularly over the past couple of weeks. I > would like to add that I am also hearing from them a great deal of concern > with the direction this debate has taken, particularly within the media. It > appears to be generally agreed upon, and is clear to me, that community > governance and what is perceived to be a return to government control - or > at the very least a 'side-lining' of elected representatives (both ATSIC and > community councillors who are represented by the ACC) - is considered to be > by community people themselves the most serious and far-reaching issue > raised by the Cape York Justice Report. > > Well, thanks if you've read this far & cheers...Christine > > PS There are also a number of communities who don't have canteens. > Cherbourg, Old Mapoon, New Mapoon, Injinoo and Wujal Wujal are amongst > those. Some of these communities are within that reach I was talking about, > of other alcohol outlets, but the point I wanted to make here was an > interesting question raised with me today by one of those other canteen-free > communities. This community has five councillors and three of whom are in > favour of trying to obtain a liquor license, two who are not. The question > raised with me, by one of those not in favour, was: what are the chances of > that community obtaining a liquor license? Do they still have the "right" > to apply, just as any other community, or, as it was put to me, whether it's > a good idea or not what chance do they have of being successful in their > application despite the council's (elected representatives) desire to hold a > license anyway??????? > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at > http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and > Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from > that date. > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ until 11 March, 2001 and Recoznettwo is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznettwo%40green.net.au/ from that date. This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use."
