Hey, On Tuesday, March 04, 2014 00:55:37 Albert Astals Cid wrote: > El Dilluns, 3 de març de 2014, a les 22:47:06, Sebastian Kügler va escriure: > > On Monday, March 03, 2014 19:27:29 Albert Astals Cid wrote: > > > El Dilluns, 3 de març de 2014, a les 13:10:30, Sebastian Kügler va > escriure: > > > The old icon didn't either (or that's what i think by looking at it), so > > > no > > > consistency problem is introduced. > > > > The old icon is much more "oxygeny" than the newly proposed one, so yes, > > it > > introduces a consistency problem. > > Ok, i'll accept your opinion since i'm obviously lacking in artistic skills > > > > > I agree their opinion is interesting, and if they can provide a better > > > icon > > > that is oxygen-like Wolfgang is probably interested. > > > > > > But i disagree kde-artists should have the power to block an icon change > > > they didn't contribute over and that affects a single application? > > > > Saying that artists are only allowed to change the work they've committed > > before is making sure we won't ever get anything done professionally in > > that area. > > Hmmm, ok, I may have expressed myself correctly, let me try to rephrase. > > This icon is *not* an oxygen icon, it is an hi-color icon. Oxygen iconset > can still provide a better icon if the oxygen authors have time for it. As > I said, I am sure Wolfgang would appreciate help with the icon, but > ultimately, he is the maintainer of that application, so he gets to choose > what application he ships (more over when it's an hi-color iconset icon, so > he's not even claiming it to be oxygen-y). > > Does this make more sense? > > > > In my opinion this is amonsgt the maintainer of the application and the > > > release-team (that is the one that enfonces the Freezes). > > > > Then your opinion means that the release-team can block, but cannot > > explicitely allow. > > Probably wrong wording on my side again. The Freezes are what creates the > blocks and the r-t gives exceptions on these freezes. This is how we have > always worked as far as i can remember.
I was confused, I didn't know Wolfgang maintained Kahjongg, that obviously changes the situation and my judgement of it. > > > With my release-team hat, I say you can change it in KDE/4.13 since > > > you've > > > already changed it in master and I don't see a need to delay it. > > > > So we're back to doing willy-nilly art work without no concept whatsoever? I realize (after being prodded, granted ;)) that this may sound offending: it's not meant that way. What I wanted to express is that doing single icons in a rather ad-hoc way leads to ... well, let's describe it as "KDE3 visuals", like a meal done by 5 cooks that don't talk to each other. :) In any case: Wolfgang, please don't take offense. > > Let's at least bring it up with the artists and give them a chance to chip > > in. Nobody is talking about blocking anything, but outright ignoring > > artists opinion (and diminishing their efforts this way) is not how we > > should work together. > > Why haven't you CC'ed them yet? Good point, maybe I didn't want to step on anybody's toes. > > My experience is that they're happy to help (modulo time problems, of > > course), not 'happy to block', and they're usually the first ones to > > acknowledge a visual problem -- which this clearly is. > > Time problems are¿where? big, my experience is that i've never been able to > get an icon i needed from the artist team because they always had more > important things to do (which i understand and i'm not complaining about) Yes, we have a resource problem in our art department. We can't solve this by ignoring the artists' opinions, but ironically by involving them more. Lately, an artwork team is building up, which provides a good opportunity to re-think our modus operandi there. > > My experience is also that by not even considering their opinion, or just > > by not even choosing the right channel for this, we're making sure that > > we're not a community welcoming to artists. Just because we *can* commit > > anything doesn't mean we *should* ignore the expertise and input of > > domain experts. > You mean the artists don't have a representative on the release-team? Why? > They should. This way the release-team could function correctly in the art- > related freezes. > > > The issue at hand is by no means so urgent that we should skip over > > meaningful ways of improving the situation, and we have more suitable > > channels for that than the r-t list. > > I disagree, as I said, this is about a Freeze exception and the r-t should > be the one to decide. If the artist have decided to not be part of the r-t > or the r-t has not done enough to engage artists to be part of it, that's a > different thing and it indeed needs fixing. For most artists, reading all emails on r-t is a waste of time. I think in the (rather few) cases where we have such questions, involving them actively is actually a fine method. > > Frankly, I also think we can do better than the proposed icon. > > We can always do better. That's not the question, the question is if we can > do better in a reasonable time. Sure, but is the problem really that pressing, given that the old icon was in place for what ... 6+ years? That said I'm done complaining, the issue has been brought up with the artists, which is all I wanted. :) Cheers, -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 _______________________________________________ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team