Brad,

I'm  not generally very persuaded by "slippery slope" arguments.  We always need to draw lines between what is ok and what is not.  I am one who  thinks the international norms of hate speech should be followed here and that we can draw the line sufficiently  toward the really bad end of the spectrum to avoid the parade of horribles or from going down the slippery slope.

I think Bobby Lifkin made the point much  more eloquently than I in his post responding to Rick's.

I do not misunderstand the motivation of the witnessing evangelical Christian.  But from my lights the evangelical Christian ought to understand how some others will perceive his or her witnessing and in a civil pluralistic society ought to show more respect for others than what we often see or hear or get from evangelicals.

But regulating this sort of mutual misunderstanding and miscommunication and the dissonance and "strife" that arises from it is not the stuff of law.

In any event, I was responding to Rick's post, not setting up a paradigm of best ways of approaching these issues.  I believe in responding with a compassionate attitude toward those who say I am damned -- and to assume that they in fact are acting out of love and concern and respect, almost no matter how aggressively or even abusively they present themselves and how closed they are in return.  

Indeed, it was a curiosity to me one time that I was, in the words of my client, "chosen by God," to represent them (fundamentalist evangelical Christians).  I felt obliged to explain how I was an athiest and disagreed with many of their  interpretations of the Bible and even much of what they were doing, as a matter of policy.  But, as a matter of constitutional law, I thought they were right.  Interestingly to me, I showed them a way I thought we could win the case on other grounds, but they said that they were, through that case (or series of cases), "witnessing for Jesus" and required that we present the case only on constitutional religious freedom grounds.

People who say others are damned ought to understand that they are going to be perceived (generally legitimately in my view) as intolerant of the beliefs of the person they are saying is damned.

Saying this as an interpersonal truth or psychological truth does not transmute it into a legal principle.

Steve

On Aug 4, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Brad M Pardee wrote:


Steve Jamar wrote on 08/04/2005 10:04:08 AM:

> On Aug 4, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Rick Duncan wrote:

>
> > The doctrine of salvation by grace through faith in Christ is a
> > doctrine of love and forgiveness. It is not an intolerant doctrine.
> > It is open to everyone.

>
> When people say that theirs is the only way and all others are
> damned to hell, that is not exactly my idea of tolerance.

> When a group says we are the only chosen ones, similar problem,
> though less in-your-face.

> When a group says this is the one true religion and we have the last
> word from god and others are infidels, similar problem again.


What you are suggesting here, though, is a very slippery slope that could easily have extraordinarily chilling effect on religious freedom. There are alreday those who would advocate stripping away constitutional guarantees of free speech to anything deemed "hate speech".  When we here some of the racial epithets or similarly vile rants that are far too common in our culture, it's easy to say (as some have), "Sure, we should stoof that.  I mean, who wouldn't oppose that kind of stuff?"  How long, though, will it take before Rick's _expression_ above is called "hate speech" because it was deemed intolerant?

The other problem with this is that it misunderstands the motivation that is described intolerance.  I'll use an evangelical Christian as an example, since I am one myself.  If I express the belief that some people are damned to hell if they reject Christ, I'm no more choosing who will or won't be damned than the weatherman who predicts rainfall is choosing who will or won't get rain.  I'm looking at the sources I believe to be authoritative and assessing what they say.  I have people dear to me that, as I understand what God has said, are headed to hell.  If the choosing was up to me, I'd choose to save them every time.  But I'm not God and I don't get to set the criteria.  All I can do is try to understand what that criteria is.  At the risk of seeming redundant, how long before declaring this to be "intolerance" leads to a deterioration in religious freedom.  A concete example would be Buonanno v. AT&T Broadband (313 F. Supp. 2d 1069, if I'm reading the decision on Lexis Nexis correctly).  Fortunately, the judge ruled in defense of his supposedly guaranteed religious freedom.  One can only wonder, though, if AT&T had reached the same result but done more to explore the issue first, would religious freedom still have prevailed?  (And is anybody else surprise that this case received little or not press coverage?)

Brad Pardee
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- Martin Luther King Jr., "Strength to Love", 1963    




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