Yeah, I have the same reaction. I think they are used to doing things a 
particular way, and doing it a new way just feels daunting. I am really 
skeptical that it's actually much more work. Sigh. I'm pretty butthurt from my 
recent AUTH48, so possibly more cynical than I should be.

> On 16 Apr 2025, at 14:28, Eric Rescorla <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> [Private]
> I do get that the RPC is doing a single pass through the document.
> My point is that they shouldn't, and that the argument that that's
> somehow prohibitively expensive needs some support, given
> that publishing houses routinely do it the way I am suggesting
> at a far lower cost than we pay for publication.
> 
> -Ekr
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 1:03 PM Eliot Lear <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> On 16.04.2025 20:19, Eric Rescorla wrote:
>>> Jay,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the update. I am puzzled by the following paragraph.
>>> 
>>> > Working cooperatively with authors who use GitHub is a more complex
>>> > proposition and is still being looked at. A stumbling block is the
>>> > regularly requested feature for the editors to send PRs, labelled as
>>> > format edits or content edits or by severity or with some other label.
>>> > Unfortunately this just does not fit with the way that editors work,
>>> > which is to identify and correct issues as they are found during a
>>> > review pass, whether those issues are formatting or content, or low
>>> > severity or high severity.  Switching to a process with multiple edit
>>> > passes, or where every edit leads to an individually labelled commit,
>>> > would drastically increase the editing time and the IETF LLC has made
>>> > it clear that this would not be acceptable. The RPC plans to put out a
>>> > proposal for community discussion at IETF 123 Madrid on how it might
>>> > support authors who work in GitHub.
>>> 
>>> First, breaking up edits between copy edit and formatting is
>>> orthogonal to GitHub, although they serve the same basic purpose,
>>> which is to make it easier for authors and the community to determine
>>> what has changed.
>>> 
>>> Second, I am surprised to hear that you think this is prohibitive,
>>> because to a first order this separation is what happens when you make
>>> the first editorial pass on the markdown and then translate it to
>>> XML. There are of course some minor formatting changes that get made
>>> in markdown, but based on my experience backporting RPC changes into
>>> markdown I could at least live with that separation. I agree that
>>> individual commits would be prohibitive, though what *would* be
>>> valuable would be if the aforementioned markdown changes were
>>> presented as a PR so they could be reviewed and updated as necessary
>>> using our ordinary processes.
>>> 
>>> On the bigger picture, whatever the RPC's current processes, standard
>>> practice in book publishing is to have copy-editing occur on
>>> un-typeset versions of the author's manuscript (e.g., a Word file)
>>> followed by typesetting of the final manuscript. This roughly
>>> corresponds to the content/formatting split that is discussed
>>> here. Can you say why you believe this would be prohibitive in this
>>> case?
>> I read what Jay wrote differently.  He was stating that there is a request 
>> that people tag PRs with different qualities like priority or formatting and 
>> that these PRs be handled differently based on the tags, and THAT flow would 
>> fly in the face of how what editors do today.  Am I misreading what was 
>> written?
>> 
>> Eliot
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> -Ekr
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Apr 15, 2025 at 3:53 PM Jay Daley <[email protected] 
>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>> There’s a nbew blog post that readers of this list might find interesting: 
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/blog/rpc-retreat-2025/
>>>> 
>>>> "In early April 2025, the RFC Production Center (RPC) and IETF LLC senior 
>>>> staff met for the first RPC retreat following the contract change that now 
>>>> has the RPC reporting directly to the IETF Executive Director. This was a 
>>>> high-level retreat, the first of its kind for the RPC, looking at 
>>>> community requirements and the RPC internal processes that deliver those."
>>>> 
>>>> Jay
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Jay Daley
>>>> IETF Executive Director
>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>> 
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