I took the liberty of sending Scott's response to another friend who shares a passion for history and social welfare. She recently came back from a 6 week study in Russia. Wendy
Sarah wrote: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:53:10 -0800 (PST) From: Sarah Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [RHETORIC] Poison and hatred To: Wendy Murphy Please forward my responses if you're still on the group. -- Sarah <<<Surely you're not serious? Or are you suggesting that the Iranian TV show is basically _correct_ in it's accusations? Did it ever occur to you that the little girl is an _actress_ simply filmed with bandages on her eyes? Unreal.>>> Surely you're not serious? Or are you suggesting that media in countries other than the US is basically _correct_ in its accusations? Did it ever occur to you that _real people_ have their eyes gouged out or are privy to other kinds of torture on a daily basis? Abu Ghraib, anyone? Or what about the psychological torture endured by the Palestinians on a daily basis by the IDF? Unreal. <<<Sheer, unadulterated, irrational _hatred_ of the other (in this case the other, as in many cases throughout history, is the Jew), better known in this case as anti-Semitism. I guess by your question you would _support_ the "death to Israel" threats then, hm?>>> Sheer, unadulterated, irrational _ignorance_ of any other point of view (in this case, other than your own), better known in this case as the unwillingness to listen to the adage "walk a mile in my shoes, lest you judge me." I guess by your questions you would _support_ the upholding of such ignorance without bothering to understand the underlying mentality of others then, hm? <<<Here's a question: As an example, why do you think Jews, for instance, didn't resort to "suicide" bombers against the Nazi's during WWII?>>> They didn't. They used other forms of resistance. Warsaw Ghetto? Remember that? And it's not like they had access to such things to become suicide bombers. Also, let's look at this in the context of the time. There were Nazis everywhere -- do you honestly /believe/ that they wouldn't have noticed a Jew trying to sneak into a munitions, or someone smuggling munitions that could possibly be used to construct such things? If one was suspected of being a Jew, they were put on trucks, trains, etc. and taken away. Suicide attacks would have done nothing to promote the cause of the Jewish people, just as the suicide attacks in Israel do nothing to support the Palestinians right to a free state. <<<Why didn't Black South Africans resort to these tactics?>>> They did. Have you ever bothered looking into how many slave revolts there were in the 1800s? Let's have a look at the great slave revolt in Jamaica. The 500,000 slaves there revolted after they were given freedom, then were denied land. After attempting to negotiate with Britain, they made some headway, but were not happy with the concessions they were given (to get healthcare, etc., they still needed to be working on a plantation). There was a huge slave revolt where slave owners and plantation owners were killed by the slaves in their own fight for freedom. Many of them even gave up their own lives in the process. There were also a handful of slave revolts in the Caribbean during the 1860s, and several smaller and less successful revolts in the southern US during the first half of the 19th century. You can even check my sources: David Birmingham, "The Decolonization of Africa." Eric Wolf, "Europe and the People Without History." <<<Why didn't Native Americans, and in fact aboriginal peoples the world over resort to bombing civilians?>>> Do you honestly think that they had access to bombs? They resorted to their own forms of warfare. The Tasmanians fought against the British for as long as they possibly could before they were completely eradicated (see the film "The Last Tasmanian" for more facts on this). Native Americans had war parties (Apaches, anyone?) that would kill the individuals who invaded their land. So while they may not have had bombs, they did have other forms of bloody resistance and warfare that they utilized. Ever heard about the Battle of Wounded Knee (1890)? The Sioux were attempting to maintain their way of life (much like the Palestinians, come to think of it), when the US came in to arrest the Sioux leader Big Foot and wound up massacreing over 300 Lakotas in the process because they were there, and they were a nuisance. After all, how dare they continue living on soil that the US had taken from them which they'd lived on for years prior to US colonization. There was even a span of over 300 years in our nation's history collectively referred to as the Indian Wars (from roughly 1540-1890). Believe me, there were PLENTY of revolts and wars against civilians during that period of time. They didn't want their land taken from them -- it was /their/ /land/. They'd lived there for hundreds of years before the colonizers (Spanish, French, whoever) decided to show up and take it from them. There was the Battle of Fallen Timbers, the Massacre at Wounded Knee, the Battle of Horseshoe Bend... And it wasn't civilians who came to colonize until much much later. First, especially in Tasmania and Australia and the US, prospectors were sent out. Then the military was sent in to both scope out and clear the area, and then maybe a decade or so later civilians came in. And, yes, there were plenty of revolts against invading colonizers, some of which ended in such things as the Trail of Tears. Please, when you decide to debate, at least do some research first. There are several books out there written specifically on slave and/or indian revolts. At the very least, check out the Library of Congress or look into a search engine before using such things to (poorly) support your argument. <<<Why does it seem to be only Muslims who have resorted to this response,(in Israel and now Iraq and elsewhere)?>>> And as I've proven above, it's not simply the Muslims who've resorted to this response. Suicide bombing, though I must emphasize here that I do not support this at all, is a most extreme form of resistance. They have nothing else left to lose other than their lives. They've had their land, schools, water, working rights, and basic human rights taken from them and quite honestly feel that they have nothing left to live for. So they might as well die for what they believe is a good cause (which it isn't -- unnecessary deaths are never a good thing). It is hard for me to see things from a Palestinian point of view being a Jew myself. I do not profess to understand their mentality, as I've had mostly everything provided for me in my life, and what hasn't been provided for me, I've gotten on my own. I've never had someone bulldoze my house or school. I've never had someone come into my home and tell me that I'm not allowed to live there anymore. I've never had family members die from being blown up in a suicide attack. I do not in any way condone such acts of violence as are being perpetrated by BOTH sides in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And in closing, if I may, I suggest you look into reading a book by one of my favorite professors, Dr. Charles D. Smith: "Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict." He explains things with far more research and tact (from both points of view) than I ever could in a simple email: http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cfm?qwork=4962958&wauth=charles%20smith&matches=17&qsort=r Please. Educate yourself. -- Sarah "...But if one night mad lightnings slash the sky, Rip off the roof, rend my home asunder, So loud the hell we raise, my drum and I, I fear I won't hear the raging thunder..." -- Veronika Dolina (translated by Tanya Wolfson), from the poem "I Bought the Loudest Drum Down at the Fair" --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do? ----- / o o \ ===OO=====OO================================================== http://pnews.org/ (links) http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/ (West Coast News Wiki) http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (East Coast News Wiki) =============================================================== Sub/Unsub [pnews-l - rhetoric] :: http://pnews.org/signup.shtml =============================================================== ================== FIGHT THE RIGHT! ==================
