As 'uncivilized' may be belief in any idea which people have for themselves in relation with nature and humans. Many ideas are supported by modern society and may be more destructive. Belief in war can be more dangerous than medieval nonscientific beliefs. In these days idea of war or way how relations can be handled is not rationalized by religions. Not even muslim countries start war because of Jihad. Maybe religion can culturally change attitude towards use of violence but way it is rationalized is different. I don't say war couldn't be sociobiological activity at least people won't meet violence which has occured differently in history. Violence has different reality. Culturally wars have changed peoples. Most peoples would not like to go war with similar political reasons. In the USA mobilization could be more difficult than sixties. Of course there has to be a threat to make that. Would people fight because of democratization?
Asko Ojaluoto ----- Original Message ----- From: "WEBMASTER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <RHETORIC@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [RHETORIC] Palestinian movement > On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, Asko Ojaluoto wrote: > > > What alchemist process makes of the Palestinians nonleftists? This is > > quite interesting and related to third world which can be seen for > > example as a center-periphery homogenous group of countries. In Germany > > left was against nazis and most workers could see it but why in the > > Middle-East people become totalitarian muslims. I don't understand (not > > saying personally) authoritarian values which people are claim to have > > in economic crisis. Most Palestinians are unemployed and still they like > > to destroy Israel? > > > > Thank you for the previous answers > > Asko Ojaluoto > > > Not the entire Middle-East. Turks are mostly Muslims but the government is > secular and the view there is one of openness and peaceful coexistence, > which to a large extent means there is MUTUAL BENEFIT of trade. Turkey and > Israel have diplomatic relations. Israel also had diplomatic and trade > with Iran before the fundamentalist revolution. The futher a country gets > from religion the more civilized it tends to become. That applies to > Israel as much as it applies anywhere, however the only time that > condition existed in Israel was with religious Jews immigrating into > Israel in the 1700s and 1800s. These same religious tendencies were > anti-Zionism but paradoxical they were a fullfillment of Zionism because > they were part of the ingathering, or Aliyah, yet against the > establishment of a state before the Messiah comes. The socialists made the > ingathering secular and the first government was socialist which is why it > was supported by so many socialist-like governments. > > Turkey was also responsible for the Armenian genocide killing about a > 1,000,000 Armenians and also the annihilation of tens of thousands of > Kurds. The genocide took place, I believe, around the time of WWI. Today > the Turks are much more to the left and democratic. Most of the people > living there are Muslims but Jews can freely come and go also. > > Hank > > ----- > / o o \ > ===OO=====OO================================================== > http://pnews.org/ (links) > http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/ (West Coast News Wiki) > http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (East Coast News Wiki) > =============================================================== > Sub/Unsub [pnews-l - rhetoric] :: http://pnews.org/signup.shtml > =============================================================== > > ================== > FIGHT THE RIGHT! > ================== > > > > > ----- / o o \ ===OO=====OO================================================== http://pnews.org/ (links) http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/ (West Coast News Wiki) http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (East Coast News Wiki) =============================================================== Sub/Unsub [pnews-l - rhetoric] :: http://pnews.org/signup.shtml =============================================================== ================== FIGHT THE RIGHT! ==================
