One thing which is difficult to know is how guided life is by religion in the Middle-East. The Quran is collection of rules and the clergy doesn't have one read of the text. The spirit of text is similar to Jesus speaking in the Bible. Some people could see that as a blackmailing because there is no room for any kind of suspicion of God's rules which should guide life. Angel speaking to Muhammed and Jesus are similar. Otherwise spiritually they are unfortunately also like any dictator who has unquestionable power which have not been voted and recognized easily by others (in this Muhammed was less charismatic and had armies where Jesus could do miracles as Son of God). At least it is good we have more of them as they can contradict each others. In order to be a religion which has millions of members early Christianism chose differently than Islam which was originally more protestantic than catholic. Can be that Islam as a religion is more open to secularism because the Quran as a text is guide and have many orders and not a story which was told by church's interpretation. History is scary to think how much religions have been able to do without a question. These religions stayed alive because they had different realities which allowed interpretations helping to make peace or even deals and allies with rulers. What would be church's ethics if exploitation of humans and resources not much spoken would be taken away from the westerners maybe not only fair trade. Religions have not questioned earthly business if they have there was another ruler or imperium to ally with or they vanished if you are heretic enough to say that. The form of power church chose originally is questionable in that light.
Asko Ojaluoto ----- Original Message ----- From: "WEBMASTER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <RHETORIC@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [RHETORIC] Middle-East civilizational clash > We do not necessarily progress. Technology is ahead of reason which makes > it extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. And people still believe in > tooth fairies. The prime directive of all living things is to survive and > to propagate. However there are some religions which are regressive and > anti-life because they encourage self-destruction, jihads, and death > before honor. The reason Islam survived for as long as it did is because > it appealed to that type of ignorance, to people who were not informed in > the ways of the world and it offered as a carrot and stick the wrath of > Allah if you didn't follow Allah and rewards of great bounty if you did. > It is easy to see how so many (Arabs were nomads and very low literacy) in > that part of the world and in areas of conquest would follow a creed that > was so thoroughly based on greed and salvation but that is going in the > opposite direction from progress. Islam can't survive in an enlightened > world. And no one should be willing to destroy themselves to survive; to > save themselves. It is illogical. > > But in the dark ages people were very barbaric. They just have more > destructive tools now Asko. During the hunter-gatherer period we can > assume that Homo sapiens were also aggressive with regard to their food > supply but were also nomadic until they were pastoral and began to farm > and up to then not tied to the land as they are now. > > Jihad is an element of murder and destruction and there doesn't seem to be > a high regard for life among Muslims who follow a "prophet" who advocated > killing (only 1,400 years ago) whole communities for material gain - and > his followers carry out that deed with the promise of the spoils which is > how the cult of Allah gathered it's large flock of illiterates. > > And calling our sense of concern a form of humanity is vainglorious > because humanity invented all the many forms of destruction. Being > civilized is another thing altogether and it is held together largely with > glue from rules. Break them and you suffer the consequences. Make the > consequences great enough and there is compliance with law but weak > penalties and nobody gives a damn. It is not humanity or compassion, it is > fear of punishment that keeps us from doing bad things. War crimes for > crimes we can't even define because everyone has a different idea what the > crime is however. > > Hank > > > On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Asko Ojaluoto > wrote: > > > As 'uncivilized' may be belief in any idea which people have for > > themselves in relation with nature and humans. Many ideas are supported > > by modern society and may be more destructive. Belief in war can be more > > dangerous than medieval nonscientific beliefs. In these days idea of war > > or way how relations can be handled is not rationalized by religions. > > Not muslim countries start war because of Jihad which has been > > popularised as a concept of holy war (contrary most religions that seems > > to justify attack or even conquest maybe somebody could tell what that > > means as a muslim duty). Maybe religion can culturally change attitude > > towards use of violence but way it is rationalized is different. I don't > > say war couldn't be sociobiological activity at least people won't meet > > violence which has occured differently in history. Violence has > > different reality. Culturally wars have changed peoples. Most peoples > > would not like to go war with similar political reasons. In the USA > > mobilization could be more difficult than in the sixties. There has to > > be a threat to make that. Would people fight because of democratization? > > > > Asko Ojaluoto > > ----- > / o o \ > ===OO=====OO================================================== > http://pnews.org/ (links) > http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/ (West Coast News Wiki) > http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (East Coast News Wiki) > =============================================================== > Sub/Unsub [pnews-l - rhetoric] :: http://pnews.org/signup.shtml > =============================================================== > > ================== > FIGHT THE RIGHT! > ================== > > > > > ----- / o o \ ===OO=====OO================================================== http://pnews.org/ (links) http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/ (West Coast News Wiki) http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (East Coast News Wiki) =============================================================== Sub/Unsub [pnews-l - rhetoric] :: http://pnews.org/signup.shtml =============================================================== ================== FIGHT THE RIGHT! ==================
