I'll send you a copy of the selfie...
James P. Cline Materials Measurement Science Division National Institute of Standards and Technology 100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ] Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523 USA jcl...@nist.gov (301) 975 5793 FAX (301) 975 5334 -----Original Message----- From: Lubomir Smrcok [mailto:uachs...@savba.sk] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 1:30 PM To: Cline, James Dr. Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook Well, Strictly speaking, you are wasting your time in (formally) two different ways :-) And you shouldn't forget to tweet about it and to take a selfie while typing. Lubo On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Cline, James Dr. wrote: > > Not a great deal of difference between these entities, IMHO. > > > > Jim > > > > > > James P. Cline > Materials Measurement Science Division National Institute of Standards > and Technology > 100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ] > Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523 USA > jcl...@nist.gov > (301) 975 5793 > FAX (301) 975 5334 > > > > From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On > Behalf Of Darren Broom > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:17 AM > To: Young Lindsay Kay; rietveld_l@ill.fr > Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook > > > > On a related note, with regard to accessing Facebook at work, I > generally only use it to keep in touch with friends; and I try to > avoid mixing the two. I'm sure I'm not alone in doing this. > > For work-related activities, etc, I tend to use LinkedIn. > > Best regards, > > Darren > > -----Original Message----- > From: lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.edu > Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +0000 > To: rietveld_l@ill.fr > Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook > > As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few > points. > > > > I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not kind > enough to point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list before > in my life :) To that end social media outlets may be helpful for > newcomers. But I am very happy to be a member and will gladly > learn/join whatever format is chosen. So many people helped me get to > where I am today by kindly answering my basic questions that I feel > obligated to do the same for other newcomers. > > > > I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Regardless, I > think that social media may be most useful for publicity and outreach > if we wish to seek out new members, but I don't think social media > formats are friendly to discussion. Facebook's format, for example, > would not allow for easy archiving of replies and they would easily > become buried as time passed. Another problem with social media is > that for those who are at work or school, being seen on facebook or > other social media may be forbidden if not frowned upon, even if they were > being honestly productive. > > > > I agree that fewer streams of consciousness are preferable. If we wish > to move at all, I propose that a forum format may be the best for > consideration? > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > > > From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> on behalf > of Daxu Liu <daxu...@yahoo.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM > To: Leopoldo Suescun; rietveld_l@ill.fr > Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook > > > > Dear prof. Suescun, > > I agree with you, and I have written to you some times ago. You do be > an enthusiastic and generous man. Thank you very much! > > Yes, many beginners do ask lots of basic points on crystallography and > some basic steps on how to use some refinement programmes, and I was one of > them. > However, someone has no choice to ask someone for help because he/she > maybe study oneself, and crystallography is not his/her major. I was > crazy on the Rietveld method in the past just for the interest, and I > had to write to some people for help because I can not solve some > problems even after I searched the answers in Google or other search > engines. I am very appreciated for those people who helped me like you > and Dr. Toby, Brian H., and Dr. Rodriguez-Carvajal, J. and other respectable > and kind people. > > I have studied the Rietveld method for eight years myself through the > web and reading some books, and I have published few papers on it, > which are colsely related to my research areas. > > In a word, I feel, if you know about it and have spare time, it will > be possible to encourage and help someone greatly when you answer his > or her some basic questions (maybe stupied questions,:) ). > > Best regards, Daxu > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > > > From: Leopoldo Suescun <leopo...@fq.edu.uy> > To: "rietveld_l@ill.fr" <rietveld_l@ill.fr> > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 4:33 PM > Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook > > > > Dear Colleagues, > IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather advanced students and scientists > that are rather fanatic, not for the kind of beginners that may look > for assistance in facebook. > > One of such students will find our discussions impossible to > understand at minimum if not simply crazy, full of self-references, > old discussions and rivalries. We have even read some rude replies to > students whose knowledge was evidently far below the minimum required > to perform a meaningful refinement, or question to the list. So maybe > it would not be advisable for a very young and untrained student to > join our list and ask very basic questions. > > I think the facebook page will reach to other public that will never > come to us on a first basis and probably shouldn?t, but that will > eventually be ready for the list after some time. > > One point in favor of the facebook discussion group or other social > media channels is that all of our Universities and Institutes(*see > below) are on Facebook/Twitter/RG, etc, and more and more "younger" > and not quite colleagues are using them too, for dissemination of > careers, teaching programs, events, job advertising, and even > knowledge, so denying that Facebook, Twitter, Research Gate, etc. may > be of help to disseminate the Rietveld Method in particular and > knowledge in general is like denying reality. > > I?m not going to judge if the for-profit, business oriented attitude > of the companies that manage these social networks is favorable for > spreading science or not (probably not), but it may be a good idea > that we use the networks to allow younger colleagues becoming > crystallographers to learn the science from scientists and eventually > lead them to the Rietveld List when they have enough knowledge to ask > meaningful questions. > > Actually the IUCr (our IUCr) is in Facebook and I have participated in > discussion where it is is looking for ways to spread the knowledge by > all possible means, so I bet authorities will salute this move towards > modern (not necessarily better, I agree) tools. > > As much as I have replied to crystallography questions in this list > and Research Gate I?ll do the same on Facebook, Twitter or whatever > other forum I?m at, and will suggest students seeking for deeper > understanding to walk the way by themselves reading books, papers and > why not the Rietveld Mailing Archive, and eventually seeking support > from well trained scientists in the Rietveld List. And I foresee many > links in Facebook to the rietveld_list_archives for everyone to use > this accumulated knowledge, while Mark Zuckerberg tries to sell them > X-ray instruments, or X-files DVDs or X-plane tickets or whatever the > automatic software that drops advertisement in our screen understands of what > we talk about... > > With best regards, > > Leo > > * List of important labs and universities I found in Facebook in 1 > minute > search: > > https://www.facebook.com/iucr.org?fref=ts > > https://www.facebook.com/cnrs.fr?fref=ts > > https://www.facebook.com/pages/Institut-Laue-Langevin-ILL/148452651846 > 298?f > ref=ts > > https://www.facebook.com/pages/DESY/103119693061304?fref=ts > > https://www.facebook.com/MITnews?fref=ts > > https://www.facebook.com/imperialcollegelondon?fref=ts > > https://www.facebook.com/usnistgov?fref=ts > > need more? > > > > 2015-06-10 16:29 GMT-03:00 AICr2014 <cristalogra...@fq.edu.uy>: > > Dear Colleagues, > IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather advanced students and scientists > that are rather fanatic, not for the kind of beginners that may look > for assistance in facebook. > > One of such students will find our discussions impossible to > understand at minimum if not simply crazy, full of self-references, > old discussions and rivalries. We have even read some rude replies to > students whose knowledge was evidently far below the minimum required > to perform a meaningful refinement, or question to the list. So maybe > it would not be advisable for a very young and untrained student to > join our list and ask very basic questions. > > I think the facebook page will reach to other public that will never > come to us on a first basis and probably shouldn?t, but that will > eventually be ready for the list after some time. > > One point in favor of the facebook discussion group or other social > media channels is that all of our Universities and Institutes(*see > below) are on Facebook/Twitter/RG, etc, and more and more "younger" > and not quite colleagues are using them too, for dissemination of > careers, teaching programs, events, job advertising, and even > knowledge, so denying that Facebook, Twitter, Research Gate, etc. may > be of help to disseminate the Rietveld Method in particular and > knowledge in general is like denying reality. > > I?m not going to judge if the for-profit, business oriented attitude > of the companies that manage these social networks is favorable for > spreading science or not (probably not), but it may be a good idea > that we use the networks to allow younger colleagues becoming > crystallographers to learn the science from scientists and eventually > lead them to the Rietveld List when they have enough knowledge to ask > meaningful questions. > > Actually the IUCr (our IUCr) is in Facebook and I have participated in > discussion where it is is looking for ways to spread the knowledge by > all possible means, so I bet authorities will salute this move towards > modern (not necessarily better, I agree) tools. > > As much as I have replied to crystallography questions in this list > and Research Gate I?ll do the same on Facebook, Twitter or whatever > other forum I?m at, and will suggest students seeking for deeper > understanding to walk the way by themselves reading books, papers and > why not the Rietveld Mailing Archive, and eventually seeking support > from well trained scientists in the Rietveld List. And I foresee many > links in Facebook to the rietveld_list_archives for everyone to use > this accumulated knowledge, while Mark Zuckerberg tries to sell them > X-ray instruments, or X-files DVDs or X-plane tickets or whatever the > automatic software that drops advertisement in our screen understands of what > we talk about... > > With best regards, > > Leo > > * List of important labs and universities I found in Facebook in 1 > minute > search: > > https://www.facebook.com/iucr.org?fref=ts > > https://www.facebook.com/cnrs.fr?fref=ts > > https://www.facebook.com/pages/Institut-Laue-Langevin-ILL/148452651846 > 298?f > ref=ts > > https://www.facebook.com/pages/DESY/103119693061304?fref=ts > > https://www.facebook.com/MITnews?fref=ts > > https://www.facebook.com/imperialcollegelondon?fref=ts > > need more? > > -- > > Enviado desde mi m?vil. > Prof. Dr. Leopoldo Suescun > Cryssmat-Lab/DETEMA, Facultad de Qu?mica, Universidad de la > Rep?blica, Montevideo, Uruguay. > > El jun 9, 2015 4:15 AM, "Radovan Cerny" <radovan.ce...@unige.ch> escribi?: > > Too many channels = crystallographer's death (freely translated from > an old proverb "Too many hunters= rabbit's death). > > Rather to express my opinion that if you have too many options where > to look for an info, you spend too much time before you find it. > Why the troglodytes should learn Facebook? Why do not the younger and > more up-to-date researcher use the email? > > > Radovan Cerny > Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP > Universit? de Gen?ve > 24, quai Ernest-Ansermet > CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland > Phone : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08 mailto : > radovan.ce...@unige.ch > URL : http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De > la part de LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO Envoy? : mardi 9 juin 2015 > 08:15 ? : rietveld_l@ill.fr Objet : Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion > Group on Facebook > > > > hehe, well played Lubo. People can define themselves as they wish, the > problem is the impression we produce in others with our self-definitions. > still the more channels people have to reach information , the best, > and as someone says before, if it does not work it will fade out with no > damage. > > > Quoting Lubomir Smrcok <uachs...@savba.sk>: > > > Dear Luis, > > > > I always find weird and sort of funny when someone cannot accept > > that some people could call themselves troglodites meaning that they > > are not very enthusiastic about ALL what other people call new and > > progressive or even an innovation. This is how I understand Larry's > > comment. > > > > Personally, though I am younger than him I do not feel like a > > second-rate human being or depleted of any important scientific > > information when I completely ignore facebook and its clones. This > > way of communication or, better, its information contents, strongly > > resembles that described in Brave New World by A.Huxley. Though > > published in 1932, it has been somehow ahead of the times. > > > > A word of warning for facebookers : be careful, this is a book > > (check the word with any good on-line service). Fortunately, it is > > offered also for Kindle so no worry for being seen with a pretty > > thick piece of paper. > > > > Best, > > Lubo > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO wrote: > > > >> > >> Dear all, > >> > >> Although not an active player on this list, except maybe in my > >> early days in late 90,s,(science , took me in a different > >> direction) I still keep track of what is happening in "the > >> Refinement world" and i would like to add my thoughts on this non > >> technical matter. > >> The generation of people called millennials and young scientists > >> among them, get inform through facebook and similar. That link them > >> to several sources of information without attaching them to one > >> single source . > >> > >> A facebook page related and linked to this discussion group could > >> be the gate to new researchers (students) to this page and have a > >> positive influence on the size of this community and their access > >> to the very specific questions and knowledge that are usually > >> discussed here. Their alternative can be the use of the potent > >> available software to have results without guidance (e.g after , no > >> sensible responses have been obtained through linkedyn or research > >> gate, to name some, because nobody with the right expertise is > >> there). It does not have to be a different or parallel discussion > >> group, and it does not imply that you have to join or use any new > >> group. it is most likely to have a positive effect or maybe just > >> null in the worst scenario. > >> > >> In a more personal opinion , i always find weird and sort of funny, > >> when people, whose work is to develop and spread knowledge, is > >> proud to be a "troglodite" and do not dare to experience innovation. > >> Facebook does not change the way Science "should" be done but it > >> may change the way of communicating . > >> > >> Please dont take offence for my last comment , that is out of my purpose. > >> Best regards > >> Luis > >> > >> > >> > >> Quoting Reinhard Kleeberg <kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de>: > >> > >>> To be honest, I can't imagine that crystallographic knowledge can > >>> be effectively transmitted via facebook. Probably one could safe > >>> time by reading some basic textbooks instead of "liking" and "following". > >>> The same holds for other "asocial" (Lubo, I like this > >>> statement!) networks like researchgate, what also waste the time > >>> even of uninvolved people by spamming, just for generating profits > >>> by the companies. > >>> > >>> The central points have already been fixed by Alan: > >>> > >>> The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions > >>> aren't anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users' > >>> information, publicity is limited, and there is a structured > >>> archive of discussion that is open to all, even those who don't have an > >>> account. > >>> > >>> This is like science should be. Alan, thank you very much for all > >>> your altruistic efforts with the list! > >>> Greetings > >>> > >>> Reinhard > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Am 08/06/2015 um 14:00 schrieb Davide Levy: > >>>> I want say something more about my decision to open the group in FB. > >>>> There is many people the use the Rietveld method as a magic black box: > >>>> insert the data, read the cif of the phase and obtain the results. > >>>> Then they say "twenty-one" and "forty-one" when they see a > >>>> symmetry group! > >>>> Maybe a POP-group in FB can teach more about crystallography to a > >>>> larger group of scientist! > >>>> this is my opinion. > >>>> Davide > >>>> > > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr > >>>> [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of Lubomir Smrcok > >>>> Sent: 08 June, 2015 2:49 PM > >>>> To: Alan Hewat > >>>> Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr > >>>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook > >>>> > >>>> Dear Alan, > >>>> > >>>> There are plenty of people who call usage of so-called social > >>>> networks (they are, in fact, very asocial) "a progress". I would > >>>> suggest to consider De gustibus non est disputandum, but also Duo > >>>> cum faciunt idem, non est idem. > >>>> > >>>> Although I am not member of any of those asocial nets and do not > >>>> plan to be, I sometimes think of the end of such services like > >>>> Gopher. Maybe we have around a generation, who prefers to share > >>>> instead of to search, think & write. What a prefect opportunity > >>>> for commercial companies :-) > >>>> > >>>> Best, > >>>> Lubo > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, 8 Jun 2015, Alan Hewat wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I can understand that people have different ideas about the > >>>>> ideal format for discussion, and for some of us email may seem a > >>>>> little "old fashioned". I suppose we could also use Twitter or > >>>>> any of the other social chattering forums. But multiple groups > >>>>> on the same subject disperses the available information, and it > >>>>> would be good to have some kind of consensus rather than individual > >>>>> initiatives. > >>>>> The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions > >>>>> aren't anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users' > >>>>> information, publicity is limited, and there is a structured > >>>>> archive of discussion that is open to all, even those who don't > >>>>> have > an account. > >>>>> > >>>>> I myself simply inherited the list, but think it worth > >>>>> maintaining, and would discourage members from posting to > >>>>> multiple groups on the same subject. > >>>>> > >>>>> Alan. (What, me worry ? :-) > >>>>> > > >>>>> On 8 June 2015 at 09:24, davide levy <davide.lev...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Good Morning > >>>>> I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook, > >>>>> to speak about powder diffraction, Rietveld etc.. open for all > >>>>> use powder diffraction. > >>>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/ > >>>>> Davide > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>>>> Please do NOT attach files to the whole list > >>>>> <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr> eg: > >>>>> HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list > >>>>> archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ > >>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> ______________________________________________ > >>>>> Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE > >>>>> <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> +33.476.98.41.68 > >>>>> http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat > >>>>> ______________________________________________ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> TU Bergakademie Freiberg > >>> Dr. R. Kleeberg > >>> Mineralogisches Labor > >>> Brennhausgasse 14 > >>> D-09596 Freiberg > >>> > >>> Tel. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3244 > >>> Fax. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3129 > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Please do NOT attach files to the whole list > <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr> eg: > HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive is > on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > > > > > > -- > > Dr. Leopoldo Suescun > Prof. Agr (Assoc. Prof.) de F?sica Tel: (+598) 29290705/29249859 > Cryssmat-Lab./C?tedra de Fisica/DETEMA Fax: (+598) 29241906* > Facultad de Quimica, Universidad de la Republica. Montevideo, Uruguay > > > Ahora la cristalograf?a importa m?s (www.iucr.org) Crystallography Matters > more. > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Please do NOT attach files to the whole list > <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr> eg: > HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive is > on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > >
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Please do NOT attach files to the whole list <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr> eg: HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
