On Mon, 2005-11-07 at 11:06, Henri Yandell wrote:
> On 11/7/05, Allen Gilliland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Actually, I'm not sure it's important to Sun.  To my knowledge the decision 
> > to move to apache was made by the Roller community and had nothing to do 
> > with Sun.
> 
> 
> While not wanting to end up in a 'he-said, she-said'; I thought the
> history was that the Roller chose not to join prior to Dave joining
> Sun, but that Sun pointed out further advantages. One of these being
> attention to legal issues, and the matter was rethought. I apologise
> if I've got that wrong though, much of that is probably reading into
> things being said.
> 
> I just mailed concerning the issue being over ASF policy now; that
> policy is most concerned with the rights of downstream users. ie) if a
> company were to release a commercial version of the project, that the
> LGPL usage wouldn't torpedo their desire to do so.
> 

I actually don't know anything about the connection between Sun and moving to 
Apache, I am really just a code monkey.  However, I wouldn't have thought Sun 
would encourage us to move out of java.net.

> 
> > That being said, I agree with Matt.  I am just here to develop code and 
> > make the project better.  From all the recent discussions it sounds like 
> > being part of Apache will force us to backtrack quite a bit for no good 
> > reason.  So I agree that if we can't find a way to resolve the legal issues 
> > fairly easily then maybe we shouldn't be an Apache project yet.
> 
> 
> Agreed. +1 :) What needs deciding is what we think 'fairly easily' is.
> 
> Currently I see us needing to:
> 
> 1) remove some jars from SVN and have Ant post a message to the user
> asking them to put those files in place (with URLs). Not pretty, but
> good and workable.

this is really only a pain for us developers and something I'm sure we could 
live with.

> 
> 2) do the same when installing a distribution

a bummer, but would it be possible for us to package this stuff somewhere 
non-Apache like rollerweblogger.org and have an easy bundle for people to 
access?  i.e. a Roller-1.3-dependencies.zip?

> 
> 3) have a plan for required dependencies (namely Hibernate). JSR 220
> seems like a good eventual plan, we just have to get a feel for the
> timing. We're already on the right version of Hibernate right?

this is the part I have a problem with.  I think Anil's points are exactly the 
same concerns I have.

- how mature is JSR 220?  do we really want to commit to it now even if we 
don't have to implement it until later in the year?

- jdk 1.5?  i think this would be a big no-no.  i strongly disagree with 
requiring our users to be on the very latest jdk.  i think we should be 
supporting the 2 latest jdk versions, which at this time is 1.4 and 1.5

- and even if we did agree on both of the above, we would have to go back and 
do a fairly significant amount of work just to change something that's already 
working just fine :(

-- Allen


> 
> Then we have to decide how long we release 'forks' at java.net and
> when we can start to release at apache.org. 1.3 is looking like a
> java.net; and it sounds like 2.0 wants to release very quickly so that
> would imply java.net there too.
> 
> So... is the above too far from 'fairly easily'? Should we be talking
> about extracting to java.net, or about modifying things?
> 
> Hen

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