I've done a little more thinking about this and I've take a look at
Blojsom (Java) and Serendipity (PHP), which was suggested by Sean
Gilligan. I didn't see anything of interest in Blojsom, but
Serendipity had a couple of nice ideas.

First of all, they provide a default theme CSS file, which includes
all CSS classes generated by the system and includes comments that
explain the purpose of each class. I'm planning on doing this for
Roller next week.

Default theme stylesheet commented
http://www.s9y.org/122.html

For templates, Serendipity uses the Smarty template engine and they
put a bunch of variables into context, no surprises here.

Smarty
http://smarty.php.net/

CSS classes / Variable Documentation
http://www.s9y.org/102.html

They also allow the configuration of theme options, which is very
similar to the theme properties approach I am proposing -- except they
don't have a property definition fine that defines the types and
allowed values necessary to present a slick config UI.

Configuration of Theme options
http://www.s9y.org/137.html


And to respond to Allen's last email on the topic...


On 12/5/06, Allen Gilliland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am glad to hear that there is already a Widgets proposal on the way
because I am far more interested in seeing us accomplish that.

But about the theme properties again, you said twice below that you
think it's a good thing that theme authors get to decide what properties
are configurable and that they don't have to provide properties if they
don't want to, but I don't fully agree with that.  To me the point of
this proposal is to provide some way of ensuring that the themes people
will develop for Roller in the future will be user friendly such that
they can be customized to some degree without having to edit their
templates directly.

I disagree with that. We need to keep theme creation simple and no put
an undue burden on theme developers who just want to throw together a
simple theme with no configurable parts.

The point of the proposal is to put in place a system that can enables
the creation of customizable themes that can be customized very easily
with a nice web UI with "pickers" for colors, fonts and images. Theme
authors can choose to use this system or not. The themes that provide
the best appearance and appropriate level of configurability will win
out.

A big site like blogs.sun.com could choose to develop a family of
themes that all use the same CSS classes and for consistency the same
configuration properties. But other sites could choose to build themes
that use a different set of properties. We can't imagine all the ways
that theme authors might want to make their themes configurable, so we
shouldn't mandate configurabilty.


IMO there is no real incentive to get theme
developers to develop these theme properties into their themes and if
they aren't doing it then we have gained almost nothing.  I will agree
that theme properties do solve the technical problem of how to maintain
some configurable data to be used in a theme, but it does not really
encourage themes to be easily built for configurability.

No. We will have gained "system that can enables the creation of
customizable themes that can be customized..." -- that is not nothing.
And the cool configuration UI will most definitely encourage theme
authors to expose configuration properties. All they have to do is
define a couple of properties in an XML file and then use them in the
theme.


Another reason why I am still very hesitant to do theme properties is
that once we introduce this feature there is no turning back.  We will
likely never have a way to go back and remove this feature if we decide
it didn't work out as well as we wanted because peoples themes will be
reliant on the properties.  So I want to make absolutely sure that this
is the very best way to solve this problem before we introduce it, and
so far I am not convinced.

That's going to be true of pretty much any solution to this problem.
With APIs, page models and macros we need to step very carefully as
you suggest.


I believe there are alternatives out there
that we may not have considered yet which will solve this in a more
robust way.

The only one we've discussed thus far is Sidebar Widgets, which
combined with theme properties solve the problem IMHO but alone they
don't come close. Have you come  up with  any other alternatives since
we last corresponded?

- Dave

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