(sorry, wrong source)

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Christopher Morrow
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Templin, Fred L
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Christian Vogt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 12:50 AM
>>>To: Routing Research Group Mailing List
>>>Cc: Noel Chiappa
>>>Subject: [rrg] Maybe it's not "either-or": Considering a
>> host/network-basedsolution pair
>>>
>>>[Forked from: "Fundamental objections to a host-based scalable routing
>>>solution"]
>>>
>>>
>>>Christian Vogt wrote:
>>>
>>>> [...]  As I have tried to explain in Minneapolis, a hostname-oriented
>>>> stack architecture would mitigate these issues [...]
>>>
>>>I should have been more elaborative for those who couldn't make it to
>>>Minneapolis:
>>>
>>>Assuming that the goals of RRG are to enable multi-homing and to
>>>eliminate renumbering in a scalable manner:  The argument I brought
>>>forth in Minneapolis was NOT that these goals could be fully solved
>> with
>>>a host-based solution.  The suggestion was instead for RRG to consider
>> a
>>>pair of host-based plus network-based solution.  Since the two goals
>> are
>>>independent of each other, they may well be best addressed with
>> separate
>>>solutions:  It is obvious that renumbering can be eliminated only with
>> a
>>>network-based solution.  And as previous email discussions indicate,
>>>multi-homing may best be enabled with a host-based solution.  In fact,
>> I
>>>don't see a convincing technical reason to address both goals with a
>>>single solution.  Trying to do that would simply make our job harder.
>>>
>>>Regardless of which solution pair is picked, the solutions in the pair
>>>would have to be independent of each other.  A mutual dependency
>> between
>>>host upgrades and network upgrades would impose deployment hurdles,
>>>which in my opinion would be insurmountable.  But if each solution in
>>>the pair provides benefits independently of the other, and if those
>>>benefits are complementary, then the solution pair may deployment-wise
>>>well be superior to a single one-size-fits-all solution.
>>
>> That matches what I was saying yesterday:
>>
>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg03834.html
>>
>> but it seems to me that the RRG's attitude has been one of
>> "let's take care of the network, and let the hosts take care
>> of themselves". Maybe I'm wrong...
>
> I saw it as: The pain we see is in the network, host solutions don't
> (as of yet) provide the control required for large-scale TE issues,
> and often the network/host people are different groups with varied
> abilities to interact.
>
> The only host solution presented from the IAD workshop in AMS (in
> 2005?) was shim6, which may work fine for some discrete instances, but
> isn't going to help large enterprises multihome, nor is it going to
> relieve the pressure on the routing platforms.
>
> RRG ought to, in my mind, step back and decide what solution set (more
> than one solution) is going to best serve the Internet in the
> long-term (15-20-30 years), and leverage that over to the IETF to
> codify so vendors can implement. I don't have a lot of faith that the
> current routing paradigm is going to last 10-20 years at current costs
> with current growth curves.
>
> -Chris
>
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