> I never thought that asking a simple question would spark such an array of
answers. The majority of which had nothing to do with what I asked.
Hi Mike.....I've seen this on many Yahoo Groups. I think it is more related
to the nature of email and Yahoo Groups than to S scale specifically.
> My name is Michael Ostertag and I am a locomotive engineer for the
Canadian National
My name is Ed Loizeaux and my son is a Conductor on the Norfolk Southern and
is number 19 on the list of folks heading for Engineer School. He models in
HO somewhat to my disappointment. But he now says his trains and layout are
bigger than mine (referring to NS, obviously). My son-in-law is a retired
UP engineer (job injury at a young age).
>I have run almost every conceivable type of locomotive that has had a pulse
at the time.
I ran an F-unit at the WP Museum once. My wife purchased a half hour of run
time for a birthday present. Neat experience, but not very exciting since
it simply ran around a big loop circling the museum grounds. Can I go for a
ride with you sometime? Got connections?
> it's no wonder this scale has been stagnant. You guys can't get out of
your own way!
I'll bet it feels good to hit the nail on the head! Dang if you didn't get
it perfect.
> S Scale is the PERFECT SIZE!
Dang again! You got it just right once more.
> It could be so much more than what it is now.
I think we all agree with that, but nobody knows how to make a significant
advancement without the low-cost Chinese connection. But we struggle on with
small advances here and there instead of one major surge. We were heading
in the right direction, but the Chinese "situation" set back the RTR part of
the S market. But the other parts of S have not been affected in a big way
-- yet.
> apparently, SHS has a noose round the neck of every manufacturer.
Interesting comment. I have no idea what you are talking about, but it
sounds serious. Any chance for elaboration? SHS did sell trucks, couplers,
wheels, parts, etc. to other manufacturers for use in their kits. Now that
cannot be done any more. But I am not sure if that is the "noose" to which
you are referring. Is there some other noose at work here that nobody knows
about?
> I am really beginning to think that you guys don't want the scale to
advance. This is ridiculous!
There is room for improvement. No doubt about it. But anything beyond a
home-based short-run production process will cost serious money. So far,
nobody is willing to take that step toward modern RTR equipment without
Chinese cooperation.
> let me get this straight also. If you don't model narrow gauge, or steam
or something prior to the transition era, S Scale is not for you! Right!
Not really. Recent messages about modern stuff indicate that a short line
or branch line or industrial switching layout could do reasonably well in
the modern era. However, mainline locos on Class I railroads are very
limited in S. Cannot hide that fact. Not sure what to do about it unless
you have a quarter million $$$ to spare for tooling. And like risk. Risk
we have lots of.
For a while we had a guy very skilled at designing high quality freight cars
on his home computer and then resin casting them in his garage. But Jim has
recently put S scale on the back burner which is unfortunate. He was our
best bet for a wide variety of modern diesels made in small production runs.
Maybe it will happen if our economy has the infamous "second dip" and higher
paying industrial work becomes scarce.
> Anyone here tell me right now why a kid would want to get into S Scale?
Anyone? Anyone?
Most anyone who enters into S scale does so because they feel it is the best
size. O scale is too limiting for the typical bedroom or garage layout. HO
is too small for various reasons (none of which I fully understand except
for aging eyes).
> Unless the more modern things that kids today are seeing, are available to
them, they aren't going to be interested in the scale at all. That's why HO
is kicking everyone's ass!
We can agree on that point. The real question is what can we do about it?
Modern trains cost bucks to tool and the market potential is very small
compared to HO. HO=80% or more of the model railroading market while S=3%
and much of that is American Flyer toy trains.
So what is the solution?
We tend to write a lot of emails on the subject and do little else except
pray for AM, SHS, and DPH to re-establish some economical manufacturing
connections -- most likely in China. I am somewhat surprised that something
has not been announced by this time. It has gone on for a very long time.
Hopefully the China connection has not been permanently severed.
> Where is the scale going to go once all the guys and gals that are 60+
pass away? It will die!
We are on the same glide path as OO was many years ago. We wait around for
used stuff on eBay and for folks to die and for friends to do us favors and
so forth. Brass freight cars and brass passenger cars are no longer
produced in S. Brass locos are made at the rate of about one project per
year. Better than none, that is for sure.
However, OO is not dead. You can still get pre-owned stuff in that scale
and they have their own Yahoo Group. Lots of similarities to S although the
analogy is not perfect -- yet.
> Does anyone here want that to happen?
Wrong question. Right question is: What can we do about it?
> All I wanted to know is if there was an interest in a product like that.
You are correct. The various responses were not that wonderful. Welcome to
email and Yahoo Groups. Don't take it personally. It happens to others as
well. I think many folks would like a selection of diesel parts similar to
the CANNON line in HO. But how large is "many" in modern S scale?
> Apparently it is starting to look like I've made a bad decision with
wanting to switch to S Scale.
I wouldn't judge S scale on the basis of a dozen emails on one day.
That is a very small sample size upon which to reach a conclusion. Get some
sleep and come back refreshed and something good will happen eventually. It
always does -- eventually.
> Bad attitudes from manufacturers and from others in the scale?
Only one manufacturer displayed a negative attitude today. And only one guy
made strong negative comments about his kits. Again, a very small sample
size. Not a good way to judge the entire scale.
Manufacturing in S scale is tough. Not much competition which is appealing
-- at first. But a very picky and fragmented bunch of guys that are hard to
please. Some want everything to be just like HO -- RTR or kits with superb
detailing via injection molding with inexpensive price tags. Using short
run production processes in a home, this is not possible. Without a capital
infusion, not much can change.
All this leads to frustrations and tense nerves upon occasion. The happy
guys in S accept it as it is and enjoy the PERFECT SIZE. While we want
things, that is not the primary source of our joy.
Most of the S guys are here because of dissatisfaction with everything else
out there in the real world. A bunch of independent cusses for sure. Not
easy to please, fragmented, overly critical, etc., etc. are all correct
characterizations. Welcome to the crowd!!
> Instead all I'm hearing is a bunch of whining and finger pointing.
Not every day is like today. Small sample size. Many days are much better.
If you really want to get this crowd worked up ask the following:
1. What is the best rail size for S?
2. What is the best coupler for S?
3. What is the best wheel contour and flange size for S?
4. What is the best RTR turnout in S?
You ain't seen anything yet until you've asked these questions which are
just as reasonable as asking about CANNON diesel parts.
> Modern models are the future of this hobby guys! If it is going to
advance, that is the way it has to go!
We can agree on that! It ain't that we don't already know it. But how do
we get there from here? Small market and large capital investments are
needed to build a modern model infrastructure. A tough problem without an
obvious solution. Any ideas? Got money?
Welcome to S, Mike. Fascinating discussions like this take the place of new
modern engines on the hobby store shelf. Lots of opinions, free
communication, endless ideas and so forth. Just ask us!
Cheers.....Ed Loizeaux
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