On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Ondrej Certik <ond...@certik.cz> wrote: > On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 6:44 PM, William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> When I started Sage I viewed it as a distribution of a bunch of math >> software, and Python as just the interpreter language I happen to use >> at the time. I didn't even know if using Python as the language would >> last. However, it's also possible to think of Sage as a Python >> library. >> >> Anyway, it has occurred to me (a few times, and again recently) that >> it would be possible to make much of the Sage distribution, without >> Python of course, into a Python library. What I mean is the >> following. You would have a big Python library called "sagemath", >> say, and inside of that would be a huge HG repository. In that >> repository, one would check in the source code for many of the >> standard Sage spkg's... e.g., GAP, Pari, etc. When you type >> >> python setup.py install >> >> then GAP, Pari, etc., would all get built, controlled by some Python >> scripts, then installed as package_data in the sagemath directory of >> <your python>/site-packages/. >> >> From a technical perspective, I don't see any reason why this couldn't >> be made to work. HG can handle this much data, and "python setup.py >> install" can do anything. It does lead to a very different way of >> looking at Sage though, and it could help untangle things in >> interesting ways. >> >> (1) Have a Python library called "sagecore", which is just the most >> important standard spkg's (e.g., Singular, PARI, etc.), perhaps >> eventually built *only* as shared object libraries (no standalone >> interpreters). >> >> (2) Have a Python library which is the current Sage library (we >> already have this), and which can be installed assuming sagecore is >> installed. >> >> (3) Have other Python libraries (like psage: >> http://code.google.com/p/purplesage/source/browse/), which depend on >> (2). Maybe a lot of the "sage-combinat" code could also be moved to >> such a library, so they can escape the "combinat patch queue" madness. >> Maybe many other research groups in algebraic topology, differential >> geometry, special functions, etc., will start developing such >> libraries... on their own, and share them with the community (but >> without having to deal directly with the sage project until they want >> to). >> >> To emphasize (3), when people want to write a lot of mathematics code >> in some area, e.g., differential geometry, they would just make a new >> library that depends on Sage (the library in (2)). We do the work >> needed to make it easy for people to write code outside of the Sage >> library, which depends on Sage. Especially writing Cython code like >> this can be difficult and confusing, and we don't explain it all in >> any Sage documentation. It actually took me quite a while to figure >> out how to do it today (with psage). >> >> The core Sage library (2) above would continue to have a higher and >> higher level of code review, tough referee process etc. However, the >> development models for (3) would be up to the authors of those >> libraries. >> >> The above is already how the ecosystem with Python >> (http://pypi.python.org/pypi), Perl (http://www.cpan.org/), R, etc., >> work. Fortunately, Python has reasonably good support already for >> this. >> >> I think without a shift in this direction, Sage is going to be very >> frustrating for people writing research oriented code. >> >> Fortunately, it's possible to do everything I'm describing above >> without disturbing the mainline Sage project itself, at least for >> now. > > > Are you also considering to move away from the spkg based buildsystem, > or do you think it will stay?
I am merely suggesting a technical experiment. I'm unsure what the implications are, and I don't think there is any easy way to know until one just does it. William > > > Ondrej > > -- > To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to > sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel > URL: http://www.sagemath.org > -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
