On Fri, Aug 8, 2025 at 11:50 AM Marc Culler <[email protected]> wrote: > > I think that the move to replace "sage/local/bin/sage-python" by > "/usr/bin/env python3" contains a serious conceptual flaw. It is based on an > assumption which is frequently false. The assumption is: > > * Every user running sage will always have activated the same virtual > environment which was used to build sage before running it. >
that's not quite correct - e.g. if you have Sage installed in site-packages (either the system-wide one, as it the case with Linux distros shipping sagemath, or the user's one) of your system-wide python3, then no venv is needed. This is the default scenario, and anything else ought to be dealt with by sagemath packagers for particular systems, e.g. said Linux distros, or Conda (which is a popular environment to run all sorts of Python things, sagemath included). We don't want to shove a pre-cooked special sagemath venv down users' throats - I don't think I can name a Python package which does this (apart from SageMath). > It is very common, even among users who are not developers, to have more than > one version of python installed on one's system. It is not reasonable to > expect a user with multiple versions of python to always remember to activate > the python they used to build sage before running sage. I am quite certain > that will fail to happen regularly, and will produce a large number of issues > and messages sent to sage-support. > > A better design would be for sage to record the python installation which was > used to build it, and for the sage script to ensure that the build python is > first in the user's path when sage is started up. This would help, but is > not a panacea. If someone deletes the python that they used to build sage, > say because they just installed a newer version of python, they will destroy > their sage. (Yes, this is more likely for macOS and conda users, and would > not affect non-conda linux users if only you could guarantee that those users > always use the python version that comes with their distro. But you cannot > guarantee that. After all, anyone capable of building sage is also capable of building python, and it is not at all unreasonable to do that, for example because a user wants to be working with the current version of python.) Building a fully working Python and the associated tooling is not easy, given how close they are to the OS and the security subsystems. That's why SageMath should not be doing it. > > Of course the set of issues above has a large intersection with the set of > issues that led to sage having a python spkg in the first place. It would be > wise to address them before removing the python spkg. Python spkg is mostly a historic artifact, it sits there to bite users once in a while, and serves no useful purpose today. (just as these sagemath_* packages are). By the way, please feel free to review https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/40460 (removal of zlib spkg) - which is the next step towards removal of Python spkg. > > On Fri, Aug 8, 2025 at 11:18 AM Jan Groenewald <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> https://github.com/pipedream/sage/tree/develop/pkgs/sagemath-environment >> It provides a small, fundamental subset of the modules of the Sage library >> ("sagelib", sagemath-standard), providing the connection to the system and >> software environment. It also includes the sage script for launching the >> Sage REPL and accessing various developer tools (see sage --help). >> >> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/40554 >> >> Regards, >> Jan >> >> On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 at 18:08, Marc Culler <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> The sagemath_environment package is a dependency of sagemath_bliss, >>> sagemath_categories, sagemath_coxeter3, sagemath_meataxe, sagemath_objects, >>> sagemath_repl, sagemath_sirocco, and sagemath_tdlib. >>> >>> I am not the person to ask about why that is the case. But I am surprised >>> to learn that none of those packages get tested in a release candidate. >>> >>> - Marc >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 8, 2025 at 10:52 AM Dima Pasechnik <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> what are the uses of the sagemath-environment spkg? why is it needed for >>>> anything? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On August 8, 2025 10:19:01 AM CDT, Jan Groenewald >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Indeed >>>>> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/commit/c4f7b06a43c72f09df743772ff8f9ff00dcbf97b#commitcomment-163324918 >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 at 16:22, G. M.-S. <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This file was there on SageMath 10.7.beta9, but no more on SageMath >>>>>> 10.7.rc0. >>>>>> >>>>>> I can confirm that >>>>>> % ./configure --enable-sagemath-environment >>>>>> % make >>>>>> fails with >>>>>> [sagemath_environment-10.7.rc1] [spkg-install] error: [Errno 2] No >>>>>> such file or directory: 'bin/sage-python' >>>>>> >>>>>> Guillermo >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 at 15:08, Marc Culler <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The file sage/src/bin/sage-python seems to have disappeared in >>>>>>> 10.7.rc1. This breaks the installation of the sage-environment >>>>>>> package, among other things. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Marc >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 5, 2025 at 6:17:49 PM UTC-5 Volker Braun wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As always, you can get the latest beta version from the "develop" git >>>>>>>> branch. Alternatively, the self-contained source tarball is at >>>>>>>> http://www.sagemath.org/download-latest.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 4a2dac04955 (tag: 10.7.rc1, github/develop) Updated SageMath version >>>>>>>> to 10.7.rc1 >>>>>>>> bcdffce78b7 gh-40519: typo + guava >>>>>>>> 94fe540d332 (tag: 10.7.rc0) Updated SageMath version to 10.7.rc0 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "sage-release" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-release/CANnG18-7ebrTNnTdmimNtLpqhyvcs3ZogVnMw2NDi5sJHneswg%40mail.gmail.com. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>> Google Groups "sage-release" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sage-release/e4wFGGJ9vME/unsubscribe. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-release/3D750982-2C9C-49E1-BA4A-9B9F3072E1D6%40gmail.com. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "sage-release" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-release/CALcZXRHaABs%2B6pYEE42tvViuA_-n2Apvh%2BGjMUR%2BBx3y%3DutpDg%40mail.gmail.com. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "sage-release" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sage-release/e4wFGGJ9vME/unsubscribe. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> [email protected]. >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-release/CAAg%3Dp_06rWhP2GLVSGC%2B_61O6MRemJHVisNQrupHkF4kyHEZ2A%40mail.gmail.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-release" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-release/CALcZXRHPOye7EWx0J466KQMhNzOaKsHsyhboLv-4BL-YJ3d4hw%40mail.gmail.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-release" group. 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