Dirk
Thanks for the feedback.
I'll probably put together an Asp/Asp.Net page to login to the servers
and databases I need to check.
Looking forward to seeing v5
Thanks
Phillip Carter
Ph: +61 3 9235 1691
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dirk Bulinckx
Sent: Monday, 4 October 2004 2:47 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [SA-list] ODBC Check stops cause SA to hang
I don't think there is (currently) a 100% sure way to set this up. The
big
issue is that those ODBC calls (as many API calls) don't respect their
own
settings. Although there is a timeout setting they just don't check it.
In most cases however this is not a real big issue since they will stops
within a normal timeout.
As you saw in that "can of worms" this issue could be solved by
threading it
and by killing the thread in case of not respecting the timeout. We are
realy looking at some good working api/com/...for this, however for the
moment not are working good enough. We realy hope to have something
decent
for this with the release of v5, however don't see this as a fact, this
is
what we "HOPE" for.
Dirk.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf
Of Carter, Phillip
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 1:27 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [SA-list] ODBC Check stops cause SA to hang
Gee, I didn't think I'd open such a large can of worms :)
Ok, given that I can't do anything about the flaws in the COM ODBC
system, how should I setup my database checks?
What I want from the check is to know if a user can successfully login
to specific databases on specific servers. Simply connecting to the
server using the in-built connectivity is not sufficient as it does not
indicate that the database is available.
BTW Dirk I agree with what is a majority of comments about SA. The
feature set and support are second to none. Before choosing SA we
evaluated approx. 10 different monitoring packages. The only other
product that came close was a tool called Network Eagle. They dropped
out of the race when their website continually went missing and a number
of support request went unanswered and disappeared off the message
forum.
Thanks
Phillip Carter
Ph: +61 3 9235 1691
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dirk Bulinckx
Sent: Saturday, 2 October 2004 6:37 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [SA-list] ODBC Check stops cause SA to hang
SA is created in VB.
VB isn't known to be happy with threads, that's a first thing. Other
issue is that if you create several threads within an application (VB or
other that doesn't matter) and you try to kill a thread, you will very
often come into a situation were from a code point of view you
killed/removed all threads but that they are simple still running. Some
threads just don't like to be "killed". And then you end up with a
situation were your application is still running while it's no longer
able to realy do something. (and the interface is gone too) Other thing
that we've seen is that in some combinations of ActiveX/COM-objects that
are used, just the fact of using threading API calls (create one, kill
one <- and the taskmanager realy shows that one is added and one
removed), makes the application become "quit"-less, with that I mean
that although you click on the exit/quit button that the app just stays
there, it continues to run (well run, it's still in the taskmanager and
just doing nothing except taking memory and cpu time).
Those are the reasons why until now SA has no explicit threading. But
as said "until now", we are realy looking at ways to make it better and
to use (for some specific tasks first) some good and stable threading.
I don't think that anybody would benefit for threading if that would
make an application unstable.
I know that a lot of people want more and more and more, but doing that
quickly (as we sometimes did in the past) gives more and more
problems....so please give us the time to do things right.
Dirk.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 10:27 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [SA-list] ODBC Check stops cause SA to hang
Wow, easy Jason. It wasn't meant as a threat, I was just pointing out
that this is an important direction that I would think Woodstone would
be going in. If not there should be good reasons. At least in my
opinion. If I'm wrong then thats fine but I have nothing to go on other
than my own experience in programming operating systems and highly
threaded applications.
By Dirks response I guess maybe there is good reason in this case.
Perhaps he would like to elaborate. I'd like to understand and hear what
their experience is.
Seems to me that Dirks responses lately have been a bit short and
somewhat negative which also doesn't give me a great feeling.
I'm hoping that perhaps he is just trying to be humorous but it isn't
coming across that way in email.
Currently I use SA in two of my own companies and in another where I am
responsible for setting up monitoring of their international network.
I've recommended and will continue to recommend SA if they head in the
right direction and keep putting out a decent product. However, there
can always be improvements made especially when you're trying to use it
like I am to monitor 1000's of devices.
Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dirk Bulinckx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 21:36:05 +0200
> Subject: RE: [SA-list] ODBC Check stops cause SA to hang
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Sure we can do this BUT killing those threads will do more bad then
good.
> But looking at your mail it seems you're the specialist....
>
>
> Dirk.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf
> Of Tim
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:16 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [SA-list] ODBC Check stops cause SA to hang
>
> Well, Woodstone can definitely do something about this I would think.
> Each check should be run in its own thread. Then if it fries it
> doesn't take down all of SA. Would also allow you to do more
tests
> in parallel.
>
> If Woodstone isn't thinking in this direction then I'd be a bit afraid
> of commiting to use SA for much longer.
>
> Tim
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dirk Bulinckx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:12:47 +0200
> > > Subject: RE: [SA-list] ODBC Check stops cause SA to hang
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > currently, nothing.
> > >
> > >
> > > Dirk.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > On Behalf Of Carter, Phillip
> > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 11:16 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: [SA-list] ODBC Check stops cause SA to hang
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, so what can I do about it?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Phillip Carter
> > > Ph: +61 3 9235 1691
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > On Behalf Of Dirk Bulinckx
> > > Sent: Friday, 1 October 2004 5:19 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: [SA-list] ODBC Check stops cause SA to hang
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A lot of API calls (and ODBC calls are also like them) can block a
> > > complete system, the only way around this is to kill the thread
> > > that is doing the check (and that is hanging) something MS says
not to do.
> > >
> > >
> > > Dirk.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > On Behalf Of Carter, Phillip
> > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 4:52 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: [SA-list] ODBC Check stops cause SA to hang
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Currently running SA 4.1.1609 on Windows 2000 sp4.
> > >
> > > We have a number of checks that use the External ODBC com check.
> > > Basically they run a query against a database that resides on the
> > > server being checked.
> > >
> > > For the last three evenings, Servers Alive has stopped responding
> > > when performing this check. The check is performed throughout the
> > > day without any problems and it is at approximately the same time
> > > that it stops.
> > >
> > > The log shows usually shows something like this
> > > 30/09/2004 7:19:58 PM External COM check started
(W00000002,209)
> > > 30/09/2004 7:19:58 PM External COM check
> > > (W00000002,209):Successfull connection (0)
> > >
> > > When SA hangs it shows this,
> > > 30/09/2004 7:27:31 PM Disk space checking on \\WEBTEST\D$:
> > > 13967.6640625 Mbytes free
> > > 30/09/2004 7:27:32 PM External COM check started (W00000002,209)
> > > 1/10/2004 11:45:21 AM Servers Alive version 4.1.1609.3
> > > 1/10/2004 11:45:21 AM Running on Microsoft Windows 2000
> > > Professional
> > > (2195) Service Pack 4
> > > 1/10/2004 11:45:21 AM Oracle
> > > Core40.dll/core35.dll/oracore8.dll/oracore9.dll library not
> > > available
> > > 1/10/2004 11:45:22 AM DUN installed and available for SA
> > >
> > > As you can see the check executed successfully just 7 mins before
> > > it hung. There are no other error messages or event log entries to
> > > explain why it stops at this point.
> > >
> > > Hope someone can help with this.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Phillip Carter
> > > Ph: +61 3 9235 1691
>
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IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER - THIS MAY AFFECT YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS:
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specific clients investment objectives, financial situation or needs,
a Bell Potter Securities Limited investment adviser should be
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While this document is based on the information from sources which
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may affect any of the information contained in this document.
This document is a private communication to clients and is not intended
for public circulation or for the use of any third party, without the
prior approval of Bell Potter Securities.
Disclosure of Interest: Bell Potter Securities Limited receives
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from dealing in securities and its authorised representatives, or
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IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER - THIS MAY AFFECT YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS:
Because this document has been prepared without consideration of any
specific clients investment objectives, financial situation or needs,
a Bell Potter Securities Limited investment adviser should be
consulted before any investment decision is made.
While this document is based on the information from sources which
are considered reliable, Bell Potter Securities Limited, its directors,
employees and consultants do not represent, warrant or guarantee,
expressly or impliedly, that the information contained in this document
is complete or accurate.
Nor does Bell Potter Securities Limited accept any responsibility to
inform you of any matter that subsequently comes to its notice, which
may affect any of the information contained in this document.
This document is a private communication to clients and is not intended
for public circulation or for the use of any third party, without the
prior approval of Bell Potter Securities.
Disclosure of Interest: Bell Potter Securities Limited receives commission
from dealing in securities and its authorised representatives, or introducers
of business, may directly share in this commission. Bell Potter Securities
and its associates may hold shares in the companies recommended.
Bell Potter Securities Limited ABN 25 006 390 772 AFS Licence No. 243480
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