On 06.04.2009 10:40:51 Carsten Ziegeler wrote: > Jeremias Maerki wrote: > > I don't want to be too negative, but I've thought a little about > > Sanselan. What happens if someone comes up with a 100% Java JPEG or > > JBIG2 implementation? Or ImageIO codecs wrapping the implementations > > here? Sanselan is a collection of related items. When one item is > > finished there's not much incentive to stick around and do further > > development. Once you got the feature you were looking for, you're gone. > > > > All we have is a few wishes, but not enough time to make certain > > things happen. > > > > Philipp is basically hinting at part of the problem: "ok, jpeg is > > missing but can be worked around easily." ImageIO offers so much that > > you only need Sanselan in very special cases. JPEG support is not as > > badly needed as it is available on every Java VM >=1.4. You (maybe) extract > > the metadata with Sanselan but load the image with ImageIO. > > > > ATM, I have trouble seeing how a community can be built like this. Of > > course, a small group can allocate some time to work on a few things and > > get the project through graduation, but isn't it then only destined for > > the Attic afterwards? Please don't get me wrong: Sanselan is a great > > library and offers some very nice functionality. At the moment, I just > > don't see it graduating any time soon. The best I currently see for > > Sanselan is to become an Apache Commons subproject that is allowed to go > > dormant for some time and to be reawakened from time to time to add some > > functionality. However, I fear that Sanselan would get lost in the noise > > of the joint mailing lists. But Sanselan as a TLP? I have trouble > > imagining that. For the third time in a row, we basically report almost > > the exact same text. > > > > I'm curious about your ideas. I'd like Sanselan to succeed. > > > Ok, so here we go: > I think basically we have three options (I'm just listing all of them, > I'm not a fan of all of them!): > > 1) continue in the same manner and hope that at some point of time the > community will grow and we can graduate - but I fear this won't happen. > Sanselan is a cool and great library which is perfect for the things it > does. It's easy to use it and it works. Which is of course great for a > software but bad for community building :)
Right, which means this is not leading anywhere. > 2) close down the project and call it "failed incubation" - now this > would be a really bad and in the end it wouldn't help anyone. Code like > this are a great benefit to the foundation. Yes, it would be a shame for all the work that has gone into making the incubation happen. But if Sanselan went on outside the ASF, we could still use it. > 3) try to graduate :) Now, obviously we can't make it into an own TLP, > so we need to become a sub project of an existing TLP. I thought about > Tikka (well, Lucene in this case) and Apache Commons. I mentioned > Commons to Craig and he thought that this would be a good option (I hope > I got this right Craig) and you're also coming to this conclusion. > Apache Commons is imho a perfect fit for software like this; it's a > focused domain, with working/perfect code and it might just need some > maintenance from time to time; I guess most of these criterias are true > for several projects in commons. I think the Commons option is the best compromise. Burying it in Tika/Lucene isn't a good idea IMO (visibility). There's a similar case with an ASF-wide XMP library: JempBox "hidden" away in PDFBox and another "hidden" in XML Graphics Commons. The best way is to consolidate in an Apache Commons subproject. > Maybe there is a fourth option? I don't see one. > But I think we should talk with the Commons people and see what they > think about it. I think we met all graduation criteria apart from the > diversity/community aspect. So we're ready to graduate into a sub > project like commons. > > WDYT? +1 to trying to migrate Sanselan into Apache Commons Sanselan. > Carsten > -- > Carsten Ziegeler > [email protected] Jeremias Maerki
