On Oct 18, 2005, at 3:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Judging solely from their writing, how many science fiction authors > > would be > > able to tell the Wu Tang Clan from Run DMC? > > > > <<If I can tell Willie Nelson from Garth Brooks or Hank Williams > > from Johnny Cash they can do it if they want to> > > This isn't what I asked. It isn't about desire (that is, whether > they could do it if they "wanted to"), but about SKILL. How many of > them have the skills to do it NOW? > > <<Now Spence. How the heck are they supposed to develop the skill > if they don't start? In the beginning we are all wannabes-- > > And we are taking our eye off the ball. Hip hop is not just > music. A writer would not have to know anything about Hip hop at > all to describe the actions and speech of hip hoppers--just have a > good ear and memory. > > Now, for a non hip hopper trying to get into the mind of one might > be a job-->>
I know hip-hop isn't just music. But when we talk about MCs it makes the comparison a lot more stark doesn't it? I remember when Michael Lind--a former conservative turned liberal who is STILL conservative on race--tried to write a novel about DC. Was about DC politics, but had your token black DC representative. Homeboy got his language ALL WRONG. Like he'd only heard black people speak and interact on HOLLYWOOD SHUFFLE. Horrible. That's the deal here. Hell, the only white novelist I can think of off the top of my head who does get black diction right is Elmore Leonard. And that's because he's got a guy that he pays to hang out in Detroit with a tape recorder, taping black speech patterns. They are both scared of it, and ignorant of it. Giving us an edge. > > I can think of one off the top of my head...but I forgot his name. > > We JUST > > talked about his book within the last four or five months. > > > > But this goes beyond hip-hop. > > > > Judging solely from their writing, how many science fiction authors > > have the > > skill to tell stories about places like East Saint Louis, Detroit, > > Baltimore, > > Gary? > > > > <<They can do stories about Pekin Illinois, Tel Aviv or Warsaw and > > have hip hoppers in them--or Atlantis, Alpha Centauri or 3,000 > > years in the future--it is after all Speculative Fiction > > Again, a question about skill. A few years ago I read a book set in > a future Detroit. The title escapes me only because the book was > weak...and I didn't see any of the Detroit I knew and loved in it. > > <<Now if I wrote a book about the Rome of today, a Roman of, say > 2,000 years ago would say the same thing. What is the point of > writing about a future Detroit but to write about some place that > has changed?>> > This is absolutely right. But Detroit is the perfect example. Whites (with the exception of Elmore Leonard's researcher) come into Detroit for three reasons. 1. The Detroit Tigers. 2. The Detroit Red Wings. 3. The Detroit Lions. They've done this since 1973. To be able to write about how the place has changed, people have to know about how it IS. I'm convinced these guys don't know jack about Detroit...nor do they know about rustbelt cities in general, because they avoid these places like the plague (this dynamic itself is interesting enough to write about). They know more about China a thousand years in the future than they know about Detroit right now. > Science fiction writers have not "speculated" like that. > > <<Surely you jest. I take you to "The Time Machine" by H.G. > Wells. What did the England of they year 800,000 have to do with > the England of his time?>> If you have a chance to read it again with this question in mind I think you'd be surprised. William Gibson once said that all science fiction was really about the PRESENT rather than the future. This is why reading some old science fiction is like eating stale bread. The Time Machine was very much tied to England of Wells' times. And whites--because of segregation--don't have a grasp on present day urban life, and present day black life. Not enough to extrapolate from it. > Could be a > matter of the market--they don't perceive the market to be interested > in those areas. Could be a matter of talent/skill/interest. > Probably a combination of both, though I think it skews towards > talent/skill/interest. I remember before McMillan threw a wrench > into the program when white editors and agents would claim that black > people don't read. Of course they can't make that claim now. > > <<I think they are scared of it.>> I think they are both scared AND ignorant...if that is possible. > Now the claim is that black people read, but they don't read > speculative fiction. Not to rehash an old argument, but as soon as > one of US takes advantage of this opportunity (either with work we've > already created, or with stuff we are currently working on) we'll > blow the genre wide open. > > lks > > <<Don't over look the Elvis factor--one of my favorite sci fi > stories is still "Way in the Middle of the Air" by Ray Bradbury. > From what I know he isn't black--nor did he grow up in a little > town down south>> I'd be the first in line to buy the science fiction equivalent of Eminem's work. I'm just hoping one of us beats him (her) to the punch. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. 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