take me off this list.
----- Original Message -----
From: "scots-l-digest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 1:47 PM
Subject: scots-l-digest V1 #420
>
> scots-l-digest Thursday, October 17 2002 Volume 01 : Number
420
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:24:38 -0700
> From: Tappan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [scots-l] Re: Shetland Fiddler, The
>
> In my copy of the Edcath Collection, the Shetland Fiddler appears on
> page 60, and it says it was *arranged* by Pipe-Major D.S. Ramsay - it
> doesn't say he wrote it. The attributions are pretty clear in the
> book (and not all tunes have attributions), where composers are
> noted, it mostly says "by xxx", or sometimes someone's name (without
> the "by") is listed, and that too looks like the person wrote it
> ("G.Redpath, Leven" for example).In some cases I know the composer,
> and they have attributed the tune to the correct composer.
>
> In the preface, it says "Pipe-Major Donald Shaw Ramsay of the
> Edinburgh City Police Pipe Band, winners of the 1950 World's Pipe
> Band Championship, has spared no pains in compiling this unique book,
> and he feels that it will be welcomed by pipers, drummers and pipe
> bands generally, at home and abroad. He wishes to express his thanks
> to those who sent in pipe tunes, and particularly to those drummers
> who readily lent their support by producing scores to suit. Many
> tunes contained herein are original compositions."
>
> It doesn't look as if Ramsay wrote the Shetland Fiddler, just that he
> arranged it, as he did for many other tunes in the book, including
> Laird of Drumblair. He did write several other tunes in the book
> apparently - the ones that just have his name and not the "arr."
> before the name.
>
> For what it's worth...
>
> Jan Tappan
>
> >Ted Hastings wrote:
> >
> >> This tune also appears in Jerry Holland's Collection of Fiddle Tunes.
> >> According to a footnote there, the tune first appeared in a pipe
> >> setting in "The Edcath Collection" Vol. 1, 1954 by Donald Shaw
> >> Ramsay.
> >
> >Ah that solves it. Thanks, Ted.
> >
> >--
> >Nigel Gatherer, Crieff, Scotland
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/gatherer/
> >
> >Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List -
> >To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
> >http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:42:06 -0400
> From: Maggie Mcgregor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [scots-l] Re: David Glen collection?
>
> I need to unsubscribe to this list however the instructions provided don't
work - I keep getting a message back that this address (as given below) is
no
> longer valid.
>
>
> Wayne Morrison wrote:
>
> > Thanks to all who've responded. Gunther Haussknecht provided me with a
copy
> > of the page I needed. Many thanks to him for his assistance!
> >
> > Wayne
> > Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To
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>
> - --
> Maggie McGregor
> Communications Department
> 280 York Lanes
> ext. 33160
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:46:14 +0200
> From: "Ted Hastings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: [scots-l] Re: Shetland Fiddler, The
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:owner-scots-l@;argyll.wisemagic.com]On Behalf Of Tappan
> > Sent: 16 October 2002 19:25
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: [scots-l] Re: Shetland Fiddler, The
> >
> >
> > In my copy of the Edcath Collection, the Shetland Fiddler appears on
> > page 60, and it says it was *arranged* by Pipe-Major D.S. Ramsay - it
> > doesn't say he wrote it.
>
> Thanks for the additional information. However, in the interests of
> clarity (and perhaps pedantry) can I make it clear that neither I
> nor Jerry Holland claimed that Ramsay wrote the tune. What I wrote
> (paraphrased from Holland's book) was:
>
> "This tune also appears in Jerry Holland's Collection of Fiddle Tunes.
> According to a footnote there, the tune first appeared in a pipe
> setting in "The Edcath Collection" Vol. 1, 1954 by Donald Shaw Ramsay."
>
> I think this makes it clear that it is the collection, rather than the
> tune which is being attributed to Ramsay.
> >
> > It doesn't look as if Ramsay wrote the Shetland Fiddler, just that he
> > arranged it, as he did for many other tunes in the book, including
> > Laird of Drumblair. He did write several other tunes in the book
> > apparently - the ones that just have his name and not the "arr."
> > before the name.
> >
> As I've already noted, the tune, as played by Holland, Altan and others,
> is a fiddle version of a pipe setting of "The Hawk" by James Hill. It's
> perhaps interesting to speculate on whether Ramsay was the initial
> arranger of the pipe setting. Are there any other James Hill tunes in
> the Edcath Collection?
>
> The title of the tune remains something of a mystery. Altan give their
> source as Dermot McLaughlin, who learned the tune during a visit to the
> Setlands, but I can't find a single recording of the tune by a Shetland
> player, nor does it appear in any of the major Shetland collections.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
>
> Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:18:05 -0300
> From: Kate Dunlay or David Greenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [scots-l] Davids G and McG
>
> David gets to go to Scotland again. : - )
> Kate doesn't get to go (again!). : - (
>
> From Concerto Caledonia's website ( http://www.concal.org/ ):
> OCTOBER
> 24 St Andrews in the Square, Glasgow
> 25 Corn Exchange Theatre, Biggar
> 26 St Cecilia's Hall, Edinburgh (Georgian Concert Society)
> Music of 18th century Edinburgh
> with David Greenberg, fiddle
>
> You can hear David McGuinness, director of Concerto Caledonia,
> discuss the upcoming collaboration on the BBC Radio Scotland show
> "Celtic Connections" (about 15 minutes into the show). There are
> also three relevant musical selections. This week's show is still
> online at http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/radioscotland/ . You click
> on "listen again" to access it.
>
> This is the first time I've listened to Radio Scotland and I think I
> might make it a habit. There seem to be a number of shows which
> feature traditional music. I always forget I can do things like this
> because our computer is somewhat behind the times. However, I had no
> problem receiving the show (using Real Player).
>
> - - Kate D.
> - --
> http://www.DunGreenMusic.com
> Halifax, Nova Scotia
> Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:04:31 -0700
> From: Carla and Bob Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [scots-l] Hector the Hero
>
> I am currently learning "Hector the Hero", by Scott Skinner. I am using
> the version he published in "Harp and Claymore". They way it's written
> isn't like the way I hear it.
>
> Is it supposed to be a slow strathspey? Most of the notes I hear played
> "short" in the recordings I have are notated as normal 1/8 notes. It
> sounds OK when played as written, but different.
>
> Any other playing tips for this tune on fiddle?
>
> The liner notes of Fred Morrison's "Broken Chanter" CD (Lismor LCOM5233)
> say that Mr. Morrison (winnner of Gold Medals for Ceol Mor in Oban and
> inverness) learned the tune from Tommy Peoples, which is an interesting
> path, I think (A young Scottish piper learns an old Scottish fiddle tune
> from an old Irish fiddler). I also have recordings of Johnny Cunningham
> and Laura Risk playing it. They all sound different from one another.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob Rogers
> South Carolina
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:08:36 -0700
> From: Toby Rider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [scots-l] Hector the Hero
>
> Carla and Bob Rogers wrote:
> I also have recordings of Johnny Cunningham
> > and Laura Risk playing it. They all sound different from one another.
>
>
> So decide how it should sound to you and play it that way.. :-)
>
> Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:22:20 +0100
> From: Jack Campin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [scots-l] Re: Shetland Fiddler, The
>
> >> This tune also appears in Jerry Holland's Collection of Fiddle Tunes.
> >> According to a footnote there, the tune first appeared in a pipe
> >> setting in "The Edcath Collection" Vol. 1, 1954 by Donald Shaw
> >> Ramsay.
> > Ah that solves it.
>
> It doesn't. The Edcath tune is in D (as it has to be to be playable
> on the pipes), whereas both "The Hawk" and the currently-played
> version of "The Shetland Fiddler" are in E. It isn't very likely
> that somebody would hit upon the idea of transposing the tune that
> way and accidentally get back to the original, is it? - Skinner's
> version of the same tune ("The Spey in Spate") works just fine in D,
> it doesn't need to be in E for the fiddle.
>
> Surely it's more likely that Ramsay heard a version of "The Hawk"
> that had made its way into Shetland repertoire by the 1950s. He
> claims credit only as arranger, not composer; the latter would
> have been more likely if he'd accidentally plagiarized it. So the
> question is, does any trace of that version survive?
>
> =================== <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/>
===================
>
>
> Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:53:58 +0200
> From: "Ted Hastings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: [scots-l] Re: Shetland Fiddler, The
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:owner-scots-l@;argyll.wisemagic.com]On Behalf Of Jack Campin
> > Sent: 17 October 2002 01:22
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [scots-l] Re: Shetland Fiddler, The
> >
> >
> > >> This tune also appears in Jerry Holland's Collection of Fiddle Tunes.
> > >> According to a footnote there, the tune first appeared in a pipe
> > >> setting in "The Edcath Collection" Vol. 1, 1954 by Donald Shaw
> > >> Ramsay.
> > > Ah that solves it.
> >
> > It doesn't. The Edcath tune is in D (as it has to be to be playable
> > on the pipes), whereas both "The Hawk" and the currently-played
> > version of "The Shetland Fiddler" are in E.
>
> Currently played by whom? I've only ever heard it played in D. All the
> recorded and notated versions I have are in D, as are all the versions
> located by John Chambers ABC Tune Finder.
>
> > It isn't very likely
> > that somebody would hit upon the idea of transposing the tune that
> > way and accidentally get back to the original, is it? - Skinner's
> > version of the same tune ("The Spey in Spate") works just fine in D,
> > it doesn't need to be in E for the fiddle.
>
> I'd never noticed the resemblance between these two before, but I think
> it's largely superficial - I don't think they're close enough to be
> regarded as versions of the same tune.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
>
> Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:42:02 +0100
> From: Jack Campin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [scots-l] Hector the Hero
>
> > I am currently learning "Hector the Hero", by Scott Skinner. I am using
> > the version he published in "Harp and Claymore". They way it's written
> > isn't like the way I hear it.
> >
> > Is it supposed to be a slow strathspey? Most of the notes I hear played
> > "short" in the recordings I have are notated as normal 1/8 notes. It
> > sounds OK when played as written, but different.
>
> Look at the words and sing it (minus the octave transposition bit). It
> was clearly written as a lament. I don't know of any recording of it
> as a song but it's the sort of thing you can imagine Anne Lorne Gillies
> trying.
>
> A 6/8 strathspey is a concept I have a hard time getting my head round.
> It is sometimes done as a waltz. I think there are plenty enough real
> waltzes around without pressing laments into service for that.
>
>
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> Jack Campin * 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU,
Scotland
> tel 0131 660 4760 * fax 0870 055 4975 *
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/
> food intolerance data & recipes, freeware Mac logic fonts, and Scottish
music
>
>
> Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:55:42 +0100
> From: Jack Campin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: [scots-l] Re: Shetland Fiddler, The
>
> >> both "The Hawk" and the currently-played
> >> version of "The Shetland Fiddler" are in E.
> > Currently played by whom? I've only ever heard it played in D.
>
> Can't remember, I've only heard live amateur performances of it.
> Probably somebody who got the two tunes mixed up, it seems...
>
> =================== <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/>
===================
>
>
> Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:18:33 -0400
> From: Rita Hamilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [scots-l] Hector the Hero
>
> While in Dingwall, (Scotland) the local museum had a lot about Hector
MacDonald
> and there is a statue to him on the hill overlooking the town. I believe
that
> the tune was written by a woman...trying to get a copy of the printed tune
from
> the museum, myself.
>
> - --
> May neither your strings nor your spirit ever break,
> May your harp and your soul always be in tune.
> Rita
> Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:54:37 -0400
> From: Cynthia Cathcart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [scots-l] Derek Bell...bad news
>
> I just found out that Derek Bell of the Chieftains has died. Here's the
link:
> http://breakingnews.iol.ie/entertainment/story.asp?j=51525292&p=5y5z5998
> Apparently he died of complications from minor surgery? Does anyone know
> any more? (Fervently hoping that this is not really true.)
>
> Quite a blow to the historical harp world. He was first person I ever
heard
> play a wire-strung harp.
>
> - --Cynthia Cathcart
> http://www.cynthiacathcart.net/
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of scots-l-digest V1 #420
> *****************************
>
>
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