On 04.02.2010, at 13:58, Amos Blanton wrote: > Hi Bert, > > First off - thanks for your help! I've submitted a question to the vm package > in Ubuntu to see if it's likely be upgraded in time for Lucid feature freeze. > > A few issues - perhaps you can point us in the right direction? > > Scratch would depend only on /usr/bin/squeak > > I can't seem to pass the necessary arguments through this script. inside it I > found the following comment: > #This script is for non-expert users to start Squeak easily. > #If the available arguments to start the squeak virtual machine have > #to be used, you should avoid using this script, and call the real > #virtual machine using squeakvm
That does not seem to match what I see at http://squeakvm.org/svn/squeak/trunk/platforms/unix/cmake/squeak.in Perhaps José put in a different script? I'm cc'ing him on the pkg-squeak-devel list. I any case there must be something in /usr/bin you can depend on. I currently do not use either Debian or Ubuntu so I can't easily look myself. - Bert - > > Here is our startup script: > /usr/bin/scratch_squeak_vm \ > -plugins /usr/lib/scratch/Plugins \ > -vm-sound-PA \ > /usr/lib/scratch/Scratch.image "$...@}" > > scratch_squeak_vm is our bundled vm. If I can't replace it with > /usr/bin/squeak I need a way to call the vm without having to know the > version / subfolder location. Who would you recommend I contact about this > one? > > I spoke with John about the bundling / not bundling issues further. If we > know the VM will be updated in time for Lucid, we can make it work with > Scratch. If not, I guess we'll try to submit the bundled version to the > Masters of the Universe and hope they will permit it. > > Thanks, and once again, all apologies for my noobidity. > > Amos > > > > > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 3:11 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[email protected]> wrote: > On 02.02.2010, at 09:22, Amos Blanton wrote: >> Thanks Bert - I found that as well that after digging a little more after my >> last message. >> So - the Debian squeak-vm Bert mentioned seems to work well with Scratch. A >> few observations: >> >> 1. The vm now wants plugin filenames to begin with so., so we'd have to do >> some minor changes in our package to rename the Scratch and Camera plugins. > > I think it should still find plugins named differently (but I haven't looked > at the code right now). > >> 2. The pulse plugin that ships with the vm has spotty delayed / interrupted >> playback. Recording has same problem as the version of the pulse plugin we >> are currently using. When I fell back to our current release version of the >> pulse plugin, playback was fine and recording has the same problems as >> experienced earlier (same behavior as with bundled VM). >> >> There is also a gstreamer (sound?) plugin, but it doesn't follow the same >> format as the others, so I couldn't figure out how test it. >> >> 3. The VM binary and plugins are installed in a subdirectory named after the >> squeak version: /usr/lib/squeak/3.11.3-2147/squeakvm >> >> There doesn't seem to be a way to refer to the VM without knowing the whole >> path. Is this so a dependent piece of software can insist on a particular >> version of the VM? > > Scratch would depend only on /usr/bin/squeak > >> To make things work I had to copy the Scratch plugin and CameraPlugin to the >> same subdirectory. Of course, if Scratch and the vm are separate packages in >> Ubuntu, we won't be able to do this when the vm gets updated after Scratch >> has been installed. So now I think I see why Bert suggested we get the >> ScratchPlugin (and the CameraPlugin) into the squeak package. > > That should be discussed with the squeak-vm maintainer. > > - Bert - > >> >> My apologies if the answers to some of these questions are obvious - I'm >> rather new to this process. >> >> -Amos >> >> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> On 02.02.2010, at 07:37, Amos Blanton wrote: >>> Hi John, >>> >>> Here are a few reasons to lean towards using the vm from the repositories. >>> Mako may have more. >>> >>> 1. Architecture independence - we could support more architectures than >>> i386. >>> 2. We can inherit improvements to sound plugins, etc. I've seen mention of >>> a gstreamer plugin for Squeak that I'd love to try out to see if it might >>> solve our recording problems. >>> 3. The Ubuntu MOTU's (gatekeepers to the multi-verse repository we want to >>> get into) will be more likely to accept the Scratch package because it >>> conforms to recommended practices. Bundling your own VM is seen as bad form. >>> 4. Bugs in the VM will be filed against the VM, and not Scratch. >>> >>> Also, Bert mentioned: >>> José just submitted the 3.11.3 squeak-vm to Debian: >>> >>> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-squeak-devel/2010-January/000023.html >>> >>> I think that should trickle down to Ubuntu in time, though I don't know the >>> actual process. >>> Mako - perhaps you know how easy / difficult this process is? >>> >>> It'd be great if I could get a binary of the new VM to test with Scratch on >>> Ubuntu. Where to find completed / built package or this latest source isn't >>> clear to me. >>> >>> Amos >> >> See "download" at >> http://packages.debian.org/sid/squeak-vm >> >> >> - Bert - >> >> >>> >>> 2010/2/2 John Maloney <[email protected]> >>> Hi, Amos. >>> >>> >>> On Feb 1, 2010, at 6:04 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >>> So we'd like to submit a package to be included in it, ready or not, before >>> that date. (We can hopefully submit fixes after that date, but the process >>> gets trickier). Mako has agreed to sponsor it. He suggested, however, that >>> we submit a version of the package that depends on the squeak-vm in the >>> ubuntu repositories (1.3.9.8-3ubuntu3)instead of including its own VM (3.10 >>> - 4 beta #1 dated Feb. 2009), which is how we've done it so far. >>> >>> Even the latest VM does not include the Scratch-specific plugins yet. I >>> started pushing for this a while ago but haven't spend much time myself on >>> it. Would be good if you Scratch folks would work with the Squeak VM >>> developers and packagers more closely. >>> >>> It's easy to switch to using the Squeak-vm from the ubuntu repositories, >>> but it introduces a new bug when Scratch is run under Compiz. It causes the >>> Scratch cat and other sprites to be "see through" ( see attached image ) >>> Note that it's possible to see text on windows underneath the Scratch >>> window through the representations of the icons - but not clearly. Kind of >>> an interesting bug! >>> >>> I fixed that back in 2008. Was in the 3.10.4 release. >>> >>> Hmm -- Bert's fix must have been after the 3.10 - 4 beta version that's in >>> the current Ubuntu package. >>> >>> It doesn't look like that package is being actively maintained. If it >>> isn't, I don't think it makes sense for Scratch to depend on it. >>> >>> But in any case, I'd rather continue to bundle our own VM with Scratch. >>> There are pros and cons, of course, but if we bundle our own Squeak VM then >>> we are not going to be surprised by having a new VM release break Scratch. >>> And since Scratch is based on a version of Squeak that's about 10 years >>> old, we don't need the very latest VM features. >>> >>> -- John >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > >
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