Re: [agi] Nao Nao
There is one further point which is absolutely fundamental in operating system/compiler theory. The user should be unaware of how the work is divided up. A robot may simply have a WiFi router and very little else, or it might have considerable on board processing. The user should not be aware of this. = Ian Parker --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=8660244-6e7fb59c Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
[agi] Grand Cooperative Projects
like this ( the Genome Project): http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/13/health/research/13alzheimer.html?_r=1themc=th should become an ever bigger part of sci. tech. Of course, with Alzheimer's there is a great deal of commonly recognized ground. Not so with AGI. It might be interesting to speculate on what could be common ground in AGI associated robotics. Common technological approaches, like the common protocols for robots suggested here, seem to me vulnerable to the probability that the chosen technologies may be simply wrong for AGI. --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=8660244-6e7fb59c Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Compressed Cross-Indexed Concepts
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:40 AM, John G. Rose johnr...@polyplexic.comwrote: The ideological would still need be expressed mathematically. I don't understand this. Computers can represent related data objects that may be best considered without using mathematical terms (or with only incidental mathematical functions related to things like the numbers of objects.) I said: I think the more important question is how does a general concept be interpreted across a range of different kinds of ideas. Actually this is not so difficult, but what I am getting at is how are sophisticated conceptual interrelations integrated and resolved? John said: Depends on the structure. We would want to build it such that this happens at various levels or the various multidimensional densities. But at the same time complex state is preserved until proven benefits show themselves. Your use of the term 'densities' suggests that you are thinking about the kinds of statistical relations that have been talked about a number of times in this group. The whole problem I have with statistical models is that they don't typically represent the modelling variations that could be and would need to be encoded into the ideas that are being represented. For example a Bayesian Network does imply that a resulting evaluation would subsequently be encoded into the network evaluation process, but only in a limited manner. It doesn't for example show how an idea could change the model, even though that would be easy to imagine. Jim Bromer On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:40 AM, John G. Rose johnr...@polyplexic.comwrote: -Original Message- From: Jim Bromer [mailto:jimbro...@gmail.com] Well, if it was a mathematical structure then we could start developing prototypes using familiar mathematical structures. I think the structure has to involve more ideological relationships than mathematical. The ideological would still need be expressed mathematically. For instance you can apply a idea to your own thinking in a such a way that you are capable of (gradually) changing how you think about something. This means that an idea can be a compression of some greater change in your own programming. Mmm yes or like a key. While the idea in this example would be associated with a fairly strong notion of meaning, since you cannot accurately understand the full consequences of the change it would be somewhat vague at first. (It could be a very precise idea capable of having strong effect, but the details of those effects would not be known until the change had progressed.) Yes. It would need to have receptors, an affinity something like that, or somehow enable an efficiency change. I think the more important question is how does a general concept be interpreted across a range of different kinds of ideas. Actually this is not so difficult, but what I am getting at is how are sophisticated conceptual interrelations integrated and resolved? Jim Depends on the structure. We would want to build it such that this happens at various levels or the various multidimensional densities. But at the same time complex state is preserved until proven benefits show themselves. John --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=8660244-6e7fb59c Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Compressed Cross-Indexed Concepts
It would be easy to relativize a weighted network so that it could be used to include ideas that can effectively reshape the network (or at least reshape the virtual network) but it is not easy to see how this could be done intelligently enough to produce actual intelligence. But maybe I should try it sometime just to get some idea of what it would do. Jim Bromer --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=8660244-6e7fb59c Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
[agi] Single Neurons Can Detect Sequences
Single Neurons Can Detect Sequences http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100812151632.htm --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=8660244-6e7fb59c Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
RE: [agi] Nao Nao
I suppose that part of the work that it does is making people feel good and being a neat conversation piece. Interoperability and communications protocols can facilitate the path to AGI. Just like the many protocols used on the internet. I haven't looked at any for robotics specifically though there definitely are some. But having worked with many myself I am familiar with limitations, shortcomings and issues. Protocols is where it's at when making diverse systems work together and having good protocols initially can save vast amounts of engineering work. It's bang for the buck in a big way. John From: Mike Tintner [mailto:tint...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:02 AM To: agi Subject: Re: [agi] Nao Nao By not made to perform work, you mean that it is not sturdy enough? Are any half-way AGI robots made to perform work, vs production line robots? (I think the idea of performing useful work should be a goal). The protocol is obviously a good idea, but you're not suggesting it per se will lead to AGI? From: John G. Rose mailto:johnr...@polyplexic.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:17 PM To: agi mailto:agi@v2.listbox.com Subject: RE: [agi] Nao Nao Typically the demo is some of the best that it can do. It looks like the robot is a mass produced model that has some really basic handling capabilities, not that it is made to perform work. It could still have relatively advanced microprocessor and networking system, IOW parts of the brain could run on centralized servers. I don't think they did that BUT it could. But it looks like one Nao can talk to another Nao. What's needed here is a standardized robot communication protocol. So a Nao could talk to a vacuum cleaner or a video cam or any other device that supports the protocol. Companies may resist this at first as they want to grab market share and don't understand the benefit. John From: Mike Tintner [mailto:tint...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 4:56 AM To: agi Subject: Re: [agi] Nao Nao John, Any more detailed thoughts about its precise handling capabilities? Did it, first, not pick up the duck independently, (without human assistance)? If it did, what do you think would be the range of its object handling? (I had an immediate question about all this - have asked the site for further clarificiation - but nothing yet). From: John G. Rose mailto:johnr...@polyplexic.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 5:46 AM To: agi mailto:agi@v2.listbox.com Subject: RE: [agi] Nao Nao I wasn't meaning to portray pessimism. And that little sucker probably couldn't pick up a knife yet. But this is a paradigm change happening where we will have many networked mechanical entities. This opens up a whole new world of security and privacy issues... John From: David Jones [mailto:davidher...@gmail.com] Way too pessimistic in my opinion. On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 7:06 PM, John G. Rose johnr...@polyplexic.com wrote: Aww, so cute. I wonder if it has a Wi-Fi connection, DHCP's an IP address, and relays sensory information back to the main servers with all the other Nao's all collecting personal data in a massive multi-agent geo-distributed robo-network. So cuddly! And I wonder if it receives and executes commands, commands that come in over the network from whatever interested corporation or government pays the most for access. Such a sweet little friendly Nao. Everyone should get one :) John agi | https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now Archives https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ | https://www.listbox.com/member/?; Modify Your Subscription http://www.listbox.com agi | https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now Archives https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ | https://www.listbox.com/member/?; Modify Your Subscription http://www.listbox.com agi | https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now Archives https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ | https://www.listbox.com/member/?; Modify Your Subscription http://www.listbox.com agi | https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now Archives https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ | https://www.listbox.com/member/?; Modify Your Subscription http://www.listbox.com --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=8660244-6e7fb59c Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
RE: [agi] Compressed Cross-Indexed Concepts
-Original Message- From: Jim Bromer [mailto:jimbro...@gmail.com] On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:40 AM, John G. Rose johnr...@polyplexic.com wrote: The ideological would still need be expressed mathematically. I don't understand this. Computers can represent related data objects that may be best considered without using mathematical terms (or with only incidental mathematical functions related to things like the numbers of objects.) The difference between data and code, or math and data, sometimes need not be as dichotomous. I said: I think the more important question is how does a general concept be interpreted across a range of different kinds of ideas. Actually this is not so difficult, but what I am getting at is how are sophisticated conceptual interrelations integrated and resolved? John said: Depends on the structure. We would want to build it such that this happens at various levels or the various multidimensional densities. But at the same time complex state is preserved until proven benefits show themselves. Your use of the term 'densities' suggests that you are thinking about the kinds of statistical relations that have been talked about a number of times in this group. The whole problem I have with statistical models is that they don't typically represent the modelling variations that could be and would need to be encoded into the ideas that are being represented. For example a Bayesian Network does imply that a resulting evaluation would subsequently be encoded into the network evaluation process, but only in a limited manner. It doesn't for example show how an idea could change the model, even though that would be easy to imagine. Jim Bromer I also have some issues with heavily based statistical models. When I was referring to densities I was really meaning an interconnectional multidimensionality in the multigraph/hypergraph intelligence network, IOW a partly combinatorial edge of chaos. There is a combination of state and computational potential energy that an incoming idea, represented as a data/math combo, would result in various partly self-organizational (SOM) changes depending on how the key - the idea - effects computational energy potential. And this is balanced against K-complexity related local extrema. For the statistical mechanisms I would use for more of the narrow AI stuff that is needed and also for situations that you can't come up with something more concrete/discrete. John --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=8660244-6e7fb59c Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
