[Apple-Crop] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: sprayer calibration debate

[Glen Koehler]

A generic way to deal with different tree sizes and spacings is to
calibrate for the highest TRV / biggest trees block and then turn off
nozzles not needed for smaller trees.  Granted this simplistic method is
much less accurate than block specific settings, but it allows spraying
different blocks with same tankmix and sprayer setup.  Further adjustments
to travel speed (within suitable ranges) and as Peter mentioned, flip
nozzles allow better alignment with block specific need.  This approach can
lead to application volume tuned for the bigger trees and more than
required for the smaller trees but it's better than not doing the
calculations.

The math to estimate each blocks tree row volume based amount of water per
acre for a dilute 1X application is actually pretty simple, and it
described in Extension tree fruit management guides.  That provides the
foundation for calculating how much water and spray material is needed per
acre for the typical 2X to 8X application.  Differences between TRV
formulas are less important than doing the calculations to have that
foundation to work from and then adjust as needed from field experience.

A big ditto for Peter's recommendation for Jason Deveau's Sprayer101.com
site.  His emphasis on verifying coverage in addition to the TRV
calculations is key.

- Glen

Glen Koehler
University of Maine Cooperative Extension
Pest Management Office
Voice:  Office 207-581-3882,   Cell  207-485-0918
491 College Avenue, Orono, ME  04473
UMaine Apple IPM 
Ag-Radar 

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Peter Werts 
wrote:

> Hal,
>
>
>
> Question. As an enclosed-cabbed tractor ages, will the seal around the
> doors wear out, or better yet, how do you verify the enclosed cab is
> providing the protection you are after?  That might make an argument for
> wearing the respirator in the cab, at some point during the life of the
> tractor.
>
>
>
> Regarding the rest of calibration of the calibration discussion, you
> should be able to separate tree-row volume from your calculations which use
> row width, travel speed and gallons-per minute, to establish a gallon per
> acre application rate.  All the growers we work with have variability in
> their row spacing.  Three things we do to address this include minor
> adjustments to travel speed, flipping over/turning on or off spray nozzles,
> and use of spray control systems.  So, lots of ways to skin that cat, but
> we finish and think we have it set up correctly, we verify by hanging those
> water/oil-sensitive cards in the trees and see if we are satisfied with the
> coverage.
>
>
>
> I would never trust a site line on a spray tank and it is easy to put more
> water in a tank than what a tank is labeled to hold. Think about any water
> bottle, the 30 fl. oz. mark is about an inch below the top of the bottle.
> As with a sprayer, if you fill it all the way up, there will be more water
> in it, than what it is labeled to hold.  A good way to check is to
> calculate the GPM flow of the hose you use to fill your sprayer with, then
> just set a timer to accurately fill your tank.  This will help you be sure
> you are putting the correct amount of water in the tank, before you run it
> out through your control block.
>
>
>
> Another helpful website is http://sprayers101.com/airblast101/
>
>
>
> Several years ago we had some money from EPA to go calibrate sprayers.  We
> worked on dozens of spray scenarios and found applicators were applying 52%
> more water, on average, than what they were reporting.  The number of
> broken nozzles, missing screens, etc. was amazing.  So at the very least,
> regardless of what method you use, calibration helps address some of the
> basic maintenance needs of a sprayer, which is helpful in preventing
> breakdowns during that first primary scab infection at green tip.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> =
>
> Peter Werts
>
> Specialty Crops Project Manager
>
> IPM Institute of North America, Inc.
>
> 211 South Paterson St.
>
> Suite #380
>
> Madison WI 53703
>
> Office: 608 232-1410 <(608)%20232-1410>
>
> Cell: 612 518-0319 <(612)%20518-0319>
>
> Fax: 608 232-1440 <(608)%20232-1440>
>
> pwe...@ipminstitute.org
>
> www.ipminstitute.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Con.Traas
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:46 AM
> *To:* 'Apple-Crop discussion list' 
> *Subject:* Re: [Apple-Crop] sprayer calibration debate
>
>
>
> Hello Hal,
>
> I don’t think an additional respirator should be needed. After all, the
> respirator in the tractor cab is the same design (only larger) than the one
> on the oral one.
>
> Regarding the theoretical calibration of sprayers, whenever an inspector
> tells me they to do it with water, and to apply that result to a
> water/chemical mixture I have a go at them. Only a regulator who nev

Re: [Apple-Crop] sprayer calibration debate

[Hal Wentzel]

Thanks,
Hal
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 10:48 AM Peter Werts  wrote:

> Hal,
>
>
>
> Question. As an enclosed-cabbed tractor ages, will the seal around the
> doors wear out, or better yet, how do you verify the enclosed cab is
> providing the protection you are after?  That might make an argument for
> wearing the respirator in the cab, at some point during the life of the
> tractor.
>
>
>
> Regarding the rest of calibration of the calibration discussion, you
> should be able to separate tree-row volume from your calculations which use
> row width, travel speed and gallons-per minute, to establish a gallon per
> acre application rate.  All the growers we work with have variability in
> their row spacing.  Three things we do to address this include minor
> adjustments to travel speed, flipping over/turning on or off spray nozzles,
> and use of spray control systems.  So, lots of ways to skin that cat, but
> we finish and think we have it set up correctly, we verify by hanging those
> water/oil-sensitive cards in the trees and see if we are satisfied with the
> coverage.
>
>
>
> I would never trust a site line on a spray tank and it is easy to put more
> water in a tank than what a tank is labeled to hold. Think about any water
> bottle, the 30 fl. oz. mark is about an inch below the top of the bottle.
> As with a sprayer, if you fill it all the way up, there will be more water
> in it, than what it is labeled to hold.  A good way to check is to
> calculate the GPM flow of the hose you use to fill your sprayer with, then
> just set a timer to accurately fill your tank.  This will help you be sure
> you are putting the correct amount of water in the tank, before you run it
> out through your control block.
>
>
>
> Another helpful website is http://sprayers101.com/airblast101/
>
>
>
> Several years ago we had some money from EPA to go calibrate sprayers.  We
> worked on dozens of spray scenarios and found applicators were applying 52%
> more water, on average, than what they were reporting.  The number of
> broken nozzles, missing screens, etc. was amazing.  So at the very least,
> regardless of what method you use, calibration helps address some of the
> basic maintenance needs of a sprayer, which is helpful in preventing
> breakdowns during that first primary scab infection at green tip.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> =
>
> Peter Werts
>
> Specialty Crops Project Manager
>
> IPM Institute of North America, Inc.
>
> 211 South Paterson St.
>
> Suite #380
>
> Madison WI 53703
>
> Office: 608 232-1410
>
> Cell: 612 518-0319
>
> Fax: 608 232-1440
>
> pwe...@ipminstitute.org
>
> www.ipminstitute.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Con.Traas
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:46 AM
>
>
> *To:* 'Apple-Crop discussion list' 
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Apple-Crop] sprayer calibration debate
>
>
>
> Hello Hal,
>
> I don’t think an additional respirator should be needed. After all, the
> respirator in the tractor cab is the same design (only larger) than the one
> on the oral one.
>
> Regarding the theoretical calibration of sprayers, whenever an inspector
> tells me they to do it with water, and to apply that result to a
> water/chemical mixture I have a go at them. Only a regulator who never
> applied products with different viscosities (due to temperature or
> different mixtures) would pretend you can pre-calibrate with more than a
> 90% accuracy. The fact is the same sprayer with different products in it,
> or water of different temperatures, will put our at different rates.
>
>
>
> Con (Cornelius) Traas
>
> Room SR2-009,
>
> Department of Biological Sciences,
>
> University of Limerick.
>
> Ph: 061-202905
>
> M: 086-6091998
>
> T: @theapplefarmer
>
>
>
> *From:* apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Hal Wentzel
> *Sent:* 02 March 2017 15:24
> *To:* Apple-Crop discussion list
> *Subject:* Re: [Apple-Crop] sprayer calibration debate
>
>
>
> Since I upgraded my tractor this winter, I plan on recalibration and this
> is the method I plan to use.  Adjust the nozzles and the tractor speed
> until I feel I get adequate coverage of the trees.  I will then fill my
> tank with 50 gallons of water, and spray it over a prescribed route.  When
> the tank is empty, I calculate the acres sprayed.  From that I can
> determine the number of gallons per acre.  To that number of gallons, I
> will add the chemical required per acre.  Since we are high density, well
> pruned, I multiply by .7 (captan:  6# x .7= 4.2 #).  If I travel the same
> route, I will get the required spray per acre.
>
>
>
> A different question:  my new tractor has an enclosed cab (no more monkey
> suit), with an activated charcoal filter.  What is the opinion on the
> necessity of also wearing a respirator.  EPA would say yes, but are they
> too cautious.
>
> Hal Wentzel
>
> Pleasant View Orchard
>
> Niagara, Wi
>
> 715-927

Re: [Apple-Crop] sprayer calibration debate

[John Bruguiere]

thanks to all for helping with my calibration.

john


On 3/2/2017 10:19 AM, Jon Clements wrote:

You can look at the third item here to do exactly what you want I think:

http://fruitadvisor.info/tfruit/clements/trvcalculator.html

Jon

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 9:15 AM, John Bruguiere > wrote:


Hello all, need some healthy practical advice on sprayer
calibration.  Specifically air blast sprayers. For decades we have
measured a block of trees to determine acreage, sprayed out tank
and determined gallons per acre based on what area was covered in
tank. For example trees planted at 8 x 18 spacing gave us 300
trees to acre, we sprayed out tank, counted trees and determined
that our sprayer puts out 2.5 acres per tank.  we used this  to
determine amount of material to put in the tank etc. All the
calibration formulas , I have seen require tree row volume(height
x row spacing) to be part of equation.  I have 4-5 different
spacings in 100 acres of orchard which makes it more of a headache
to constantly figure gallons per acre and spray materials needed
in each different block(thus the reason we simply measured trees
per acre). I know my speed , i know my gallons per minute but
can't find an equation that converts this to gallons per acre
without tree row volume.

need a simple but effective solution...any takers?

in Virginia we have plums in full bloom, fantasia and red gold
nectarines in pink and some open blooms, 21 degrees forecasted on
friday and saturday night.

God Bless,

John Bruguiere

Dickie Bros. Orchard


On 1/30/2017 6:36 PM, Arthur Kelly wrote:

I agree Mo.  We try and remove trees every year and plant every
year.  I did use the word can to hedge the productive life of a
block.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 30, 2017, at 5:48 PM, maurice tougas
mailto:appleman.maur...@gmail.com>>
wrote:


Art

I agree that it's great to be out pruning. I disagree that you
should expect a longer productive life with high density
systems. My goal here is to be looking at replanting when the
orchard reaches twenty years or so. New varieties, strains of
varieties and improved planting system encourage 5% renewal in
my opinion.

My best to you
Mo Tougas

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:27 PM, George Greene
mailto:cortla...@icloud.com>> wrote:

Art:

Your comment makes sense to me.  Right now I have a cold and
I fell on the ice on Dec. 29th and I am still suffering.  Pt
may help but it may take a while.

I suppose that you are enjoying the warmer weather.

Be well, George


On Jan 30, 2017, at 12:43 PM, kellyorchards
mailto:kellyorcha...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Ruminations after a morning pruning.  The weather is
ideal.  The temps are in the high 20's, the wind is light
and the sun is shining.  Weather like this is why we live
here. Permanent limbs ultimately and inevitably get too
large.  This is why high density systems can have a longer
productive life than less dense orchards.




Art Kelly
Kelly Orchards
Acton, Maine
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George Greene
68 Willow Lane
Wiscasset, ME 04578
207-882-8074 
cortla...@icloud.com 





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-- 
Maurice Tougas

Tougas Family Farm
Northborough,MA 01532
508-450-0844 
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--
JMCEXTMAN Jon Clements cleme

[Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[David Doud]

A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with Cosmic 
Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering - 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamble-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card

'et cavete ab agricola’ - 
'let the grower beware'…
…and the sales desks also...

David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties - 
so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights ago...

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Re: [Apple-Crop] sprayer calibration debate

[Matt Pellerin]

John,
Here is any easy calculation formula to take *sprayer output (gallons/min)*,
*speed (ft/min)*, and *row spacing (ft)* to get *gallons/acre*.  This
assumes you drive every row when you spray.  You need to get good readings
on sprayer output and speed with a calibration.

Gallons/acre = Sprayer output (gallons/min) / ((Speed(ft/min) x row spacing
(ft)) / 43560 (ft2 per acre))

I use this all the time.  Please let me know if this makes sense.

Thanks,
Matthew Pellerin
Treworgy Family Orchards
Levant, ME

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 9:15 AM, John Bruguiere  wrote:

> Hello all, need some healthy practical advice on sprayer calibration.
> Specifically air blast sprayers.  For decades we have measured a block of
> trees to determine acreage, sprayed out tank and determined gallons per
> acre based on what area was covered in tank. For example trees planted at 8
> x 18 spacing gave us 300 trees to acre, we sprayed out tank, counted trees
> and determined that our sprayer puts out 2.5 acres per tank.  we used this
> to determine amount of material to put in the tank etc. All the calibration
> formulas , I have seen require tree row volume(height x row spacing) to be
> part of equation.  I have 4-5 different spacings in 100 acres of orchard
> which makes it more of a headache to constantly figure gallons per acre and
> spray materials needed in each different block(thus the reason we simply
> measured trees per acre). I know my speed , i know my gallons per minute
> but can't find an equation that converts this to gallons per acre without
> tree row volume.
>
> need a simple but effective solution...any takers?
>
> in Virginia we have plums in full bloom, fantasia and red gold nectarines
> in pink and some open blooms, 21 degrees forecasted on friday and saturday
> night.
>
> God Bless,
>
> John Bruguiere
>
> Dickie Bros. Orchard
>
> On 1/30/2017 6:36 PM, Arthur Kelly wrote:
>
> I agree Mo.  We try and remove trees every year and plant every year.  I
> did use the word can to hedge the productive life of a block.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 30, 2017, at 5:48 PM, maurice tougas 
> wrote:
>
> Art
>
> I agree that it's great to be out pruning. I disagree that you should
> expect a longer productive life with high density systems. My goal here is
> to be looking at replanting when the orchard reaches twenty years or so.
> New varieties, strains of varieties and improved planting system encourage
> 5% renewal in my opinion.
>
> My best to you
> Mo Tougas
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:27 PM, George Greene 
> wrote:
>
>> Art:
>>
>> Your comment makes sense to me.  Right now I have a cold and I fell on
>> the ice on Dec. 29th and I am still suffering.  Pt may help but it may take
>> a while.
>>
>> I suppose that you are enjoying the warmer weather.
>>
>> Be well, George
>>
>> On Jan 30, 2017, at 12:43 PM, kellyorchards 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Ruminations after a morning pruning.  The weather is ideal.  The temps
>> are in the high 20's, the wind is light and the sun is shining.  Weather
>> like this is why we live here.  Permanent limbs ultimately and inevitably
>> get too large.  This is why high density systems can have a longer
>> productive life than less dense orchards.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Art Kelly
>> Kelly Orchards
>> Acton, Maine
>> ___
>> apple-crop mailing list
>> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
>> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>>
>>
>> George Greene
>> 68 Willow Lane
>> Wiscasset, ME 04578
>> 207-882-8074 <%28207%29%20882-8074>
>> cortla...@icloud.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
>> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Maurice Tougas
> Tougas Family Farm
> Northborough,MA 01532
> 508-450-0844 <(508)%20450-0844>
>
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>
>
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>
>
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>


-- 
Matthew Pellerin
Agricultural Manager
Treworgy Family Orchards
3876 Union St
Levant, ME 04456
www.treworgyorchards.com
207-884-8354
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[Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

[Dean]

We have made some large cuts,
4-6" seems like some latex paint would be helpful (apples). 
Realize standard advice says no
But ready for advice. Thanks
77 tues forecast 15 tomorrow night in central Iowa. 


Regards, Dean
Www.berrypatchfarm.com

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[Apple-Crop] nitrogen in early spray

[David Doud]

So - I applied urea in a spray last november, but I am not impressed with the 
breakdown of the apple leaf litter - I just ordered oil and copper for the 
first spray this spring and I wonder about adding urea into the mix in hopes of 
accelerating decomposition - - any reason not too? 

David Doud - grower IN - almost green tip on early blooming varieties - 
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[Craig J. Kahlke]

David,

Thanks for sharing this.  When WA decides on something, it’s full speed ahead.

Craig


Craig J. Kahlke
Area Extension Educator
Fruit Quality Management
Team Leader
Lake Ontario Fruit Program
Cornell Cooperative Extension
4487 Lake Ave
Lockport, NY 14094
Cell: 585-735-5448
Work: 716-433-8839, ext. 237
Fax: 716-438-0275
Email: cj...@cornell.edu
http://lof.cce.cornell.edu/


From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] On Behalf Of 
David Doud
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 10:33 AM
To: Apple-Crop discussion list 
Subject: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with Cosmic 
Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering -

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamble-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card


'et cavete ab agricola’ -

'let the grower beware'…
…and the sales desks also...



David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties -
so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights ago...


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Re: [Apple-Crop] nitrogen in early spray

[Jon Clements]

I really question whether the urea will do much extra good given the cool
spring ambient and soil temperatures?

Good luck.

Jon

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:24 PM, David Doud  wrote:

> So - I applied urea in a spray last november, but I am not impressed with
> the breakdown of the apple leaf litter - I just ordered oil and copper for
> the first spray this spring and I wonder about adding urea into the mix in
> hopes of accelerating decomposition - - any reason not too?
>
> David Doud - grower IN - almost green tip on early blooming varieties -
> ___
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>



-- 
JMCEXTMAN
Jon Clements
cleme...@umext.umass.edu
aka 'Mr Liberty'
aka 'Mr Honeycrisp'
IM mrhoneycrisp
413.478.7219
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Re: [Apple-Crop] sprayer calibration debate

[Ernest Rollins]

My approach here may be a bit unorthodox, but it has produced good results for 
me. For most materials there are given ranges per acre on the label. I simply 
use the physical acreage covered by each load to mix. In some blocks my 
tankload will cover 6 acres, while some narrower row blocks a load will only 
cover 4 acres. I calculate acres using an old computer program I have, but I 
think with google earth you can draw out a shape on the satellite image and it 
will calculate the acreage. 

I also adjust the rate of pesticide used per acre within the allowed range 
depending on tree size and arrangement. For the narrow row blocks where a 
tankload covers 4 acres I have found through experience that 3 pounds of captan 
is sufficient for most applications , meaning that 12 pounds of captan per load 
is needed. while the wider rows of standard trees approaching 100 years old 
next to them require the maximum 5 pound per acre rate of captan for consistent 
scab control. So that trip is covering 6 acres at the 5 pound rate, so a full 
30 pounds of captan is needed in that mix. 

I did use simpler numbers for illustration purposes. My real numbers involve 
pesky fractions that would make the example long and confusing. 

Ernest Rollins
Rollins Orchards
207-717-7057


> On Mar 2, 2017, at 9:15 AM, John Bruguiere  wrote:
> 
> Hello all, need some healthy practical advice on sprayer calibration.  
> Specifically air blast sprayers.  For decades we have measured a block of 
> trees to determine acreage, sprayed out tank and determined gallons per acre 
> based on what area was covered in tank. For example trees planted at 8 x 18 
> spacing gave us 300 trees to acre, we sprayed out tank, counted trees and 
> determined that our sprayer puts out 2.5 acres per tank.  we used this  to 
> determine amount of material to put in the tank etc. All the calibration 
> formulas , I have seen require tree row volume(height x row spacing) to be 
> part of equation.  I have 4-5 different spacings in 100 acres of orchard 
> which makes it more of a headache to constantly figure gallons per acre and 
> spray materials needed in each different block(thus the reason we simply 
> measured trees per acre). I know my speed , i know my gallons per minute but 
> can't find an equation that converts this to gallons per acre without tree 
> row volume.
> 
> need a simple but effective solution...any takers?
> 
> in Virginia we have plums in full bloom, fantasia and red gold nectarines in 
> pink and some open blooms, 21 degrees forecasted on friday and saturday night.
> 
> God Bless,
> 
> John Bruguiere
> 
> Dickie Bros. Orchard
> 
>> On 1/30/2017 6:36 PM, Arthur Kelly wrote:
>> I agree Mo.  We try and remove trees every year and plant every year.  I did 
>> use the word can to hedge the productive life of a block.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 30, 2017, at 5:48 PM, maurice tougas  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Art
>>> 
>>> I agree that it's great to be out pruning. I disagree that you should 
>>> expect a longer productive life with high density systems. My goal here is 
>>> to be looking at replanting when the orchard reaches twenty years or so. 
>>> New varieties, strains of varieties and improved planting system encourage 
>>> 5% renewal in my opinion. 
>>> 
>>> My best to you
>>> Mo Tougas
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:27 PM, George Greene  wrote:
 Art:
 
 Your comment makes sense to me.  Right now I have a cold and I fell on the 
 ice on Dec. 29th and I am still suffering.  Pt may help but it may take a 
 while.
 
 I suppose that you are enjoying the warmer weather.
 
 Be well, George
 
> On Jan 30, 2017, at 12:43 PM, kellyorchards  
> wrote:
> 
> Ruminations after a morning pruning.  The weather is ideal.  The temps 
> are in the high 20's, the wind is light and the sun is shining.  Weather 
> like this is why we live here.  Permanent limbs ultimately and inevitably 
> get too large.  This is why high density systems can have a longer 
> productive life than less dense orchards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art Kelly
> Kelly Orchards
> Acton, Maine
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 George Greene
 68 Willow Lane
 Wiscasset, ME 04578
 207-882-8074
 cortla...@icloud.com
 
 
 
 
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Maurice Tougas
>>> Tougas Family Farm
>>> Northborough,MA 01532
>>> 508-450-0844
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>> 
>> 
>> _

Re: [Apple-Crop] nitrogen in early spray

[Daniel Cooley]

If you’re not chopping leaves, do that first. Then worry about the extra urea.

Dan


> On Mar 21, 2017, at 10:30 AM, Jon Clements  wrote:
> 
> I really question whether the urea will do much extra good given the cool 
> spring ambient and soil temperatures?
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Jon
> 
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:24 PM, David Doud  > wrote:
> So - I applied urea in a spray last november, but I am not impressed with the 
> breakdown of the apple leaf litter - I just ordered oil and copper for the 
> first spray this spring and I wonder about adding urea into the mix in hopes 
> of accelerating decomposition - - any reason not too?
> 
> David Doud - grower IN - almost green tip on early blooming varieties -
> ___
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> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> JMCEXTMAN
> Jon Clements
> cleme...@umext.umass.edu 
> aka 'Mr Liberty'
> aka 'Mr Honeycrisp'
> IM mrhoneycrisp
> 413.478.7219
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

[David Kollas]

Dean:
I use Doc Farwell’s Seal and Heal (green) or the similar Doc Farwell’s 
Grafting Seal on cuts that
I think will not heal over within two or three years if they do not slope 
enough to shed rain over the
raised lip of new growth.  Wood rot develops on wounds that provide wet 
conditions favorable to 
decay. Large cuts made to permit grafting do not heal rapidly if there is no 
foliage feeding the cut from
above. Observe temperature limitations on the label.

David Kollas
Kollas Orchard
Tolland, CT
  
> On Mar 9, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Dean  wrote:
> 
> We have made some large cuts,
> 4-6" seems like some latex paint would be helpful (apples). 
> Realize standard advice says no
> But ready for advice. Thanks
> 77 tues forecast 15 tomorrow night in central Iowa. 
> 
> 
> Regards, Dean
> Www.berrypatchfarm.com
> 
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

[Tom Auvil]

Dean, 

Many if not most wood decay fungi are 'water molds' that need moisture and
temperature to germinate and grow.  Most latex / exterior paints are
manufactured to 'seal' things up and can increase the incidence of disease.
A WSU pathologist recommended a copper spray or adding copper to a white
wash would be better than a sealing paint. Grafters use sealants  to
encourage the scion and trunk to callus and knit together before the tissues
dry out and cease activity. Another disease management factor is if there
are a number of trees/trunks with wood decay activity in the orchard. The
more disease in the field increases risk and encourages treatment. 

Tom and Rose Auvil
PO Box 408
Orondo, WA 98843

tau...@nwi.net

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] On Behalf Of
Dean
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 11:47 AM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

We have made some large cuts,
4-6" seems like some latex paint would be helpful (apples). 
Realize standard advice says no
But ready for advice. Thanks
77 tues forecast 15 tomorrow night in central Iowa. 


Regards, Dean
Www.berrypatchfarm.com

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[Apple-Crop] Robotic Following Cart - Potential Orchard Applications?

[charlie]

Hello,

I am working to develop a robot to assist in hand picking and other
farm applications, and wanted to share what we have to get feedback.

The robot we are developing is simply a cart that follows you (picture
below).  From what we can see, it appears as if a lot of harvest and
pruning time is spent shuttling produce or stuff that has been pruned
from a point by the tree to a collection point.  I think our launch
product [1] might reduce/eliminate this shuttling time.  I WONDERED
IF ANY OF YOU MIGHT BE WILLING TO TAKE A SURVEY (HERE [2]) TO PROVIDE
US FEEDBACK ON OUR CONCEPT, OR PERHAPS REPLY WITH ANY FEEDBACK YOU
MIGHT HAVE?

Thank you very much!

Best,

Charlie

Charlie Andersen
CEO, AGR
c. 610-47-9903
char...@agrbt.com [3]
WWW.AGRBT.COM [4]



Links:
--
[1] http://www.agrbt.com/products.html
[2]
http://webmail.dreamhost.com/HTTPS://DOCS.GOOGLE.COM/FORMS/D/E/1FAIPQLSF0WMXDGVPLTILXJPMOZ3L5Y7JWT-NZEJYYX2HEO2L5UVO1WG/VIEWFORM?USP=SF_LINK
[3] mailto:char...@agrbt.com
[4] http://www.agrbt.com/

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Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[Shoemaker, William H]

Very interesting. Like the author and commenters said, consumers will be the 
key. This isn't about retail agriculture, this is full-blown wholesale 
production and marketing. The 'Cosmic Crisp' all-in approach really is a 
gamble. Consumer response will depend on how well WA delivers this product to 
consumers. Harvest timing and post-harvest handling will need to be immaculate, 
and I have not always been impressed with how the industry in WA delivers on 
quality. I know the growers are good, but I think packers don't focus as hard 
on quality as they should. There are so many choices out the for consumers, and 
Fuji is doing pretty well as a low cost choice with lots of volume going into 
the market. It seems to me to be a razor's edge proposition. But then, I 
haven't tasted 'Cosmic Crisp'.

Just stirring the apple sauce, I guess.

Bill

William H. Shoemaker

Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist

University of Illinois

wshoe...@illinois.edu


From: apple-crop [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] on behalf of David 
Doud [david_d...@me.com]
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:33 AM
To: Apple-Crop discussion list
Subject: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with Cosmic 
Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering -

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamble-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card


'et cavete ab agricola’ -

'let the grower beware'…

…and the sales desks also...


David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties -
so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights ago...

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Re: [Apple-Crop] nitrogen in early spray

[maurice tougas]

Rates I've seen to assist with litter decomposition are 50# urea per acre.
Using 25# cal nit makes my leaf/fruit samples test way too high N. Adding
50# urea/acre will blow the Universities testing machinery off the planet!

Mo Tougas

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Daniel Cooley  wrote:

> If you’re not chopping leaves, do that first. Then worry about the extra
> urea.
>
> Dan
>
>
> On Mar 21, 2017, at 10:30 AM, Jon Clements  wrote:
>
> I really question whether the urea will do much extra good given the cool
> spring ambient and soil temperatures?
>
> Good luck.
>
> Jon
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:24 PM, David Doud  wrote:
>
>> So - I applied urea in a spray last november, but I am not impressed with
>> the breakdown of the apple leaf litter - I just ordered oil and copper for
>> the first spray this spring and I wonder about adding urea into the mix in
>> hopes of accelerating decomposition - - any reason not too?
>>
>> David Doud - grower IN - almost green tip on early blooming varieties -
>> ___
>> apple-crop mailing list
>> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
>> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>>
>
>
>
> --
> JMCEXTMAN
> Jon Clements
> cleme...@umext.umass.edu
> aka 'Mr Liberty'
> aka 'Mr Honeycrisp'
> IM mrhoneycrisp
> 413.478.7219 <(413)%20478-7219>
> ___
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>
>
>
> ___
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>
>


-- 
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Tougas Family Farm
Northborough,MA 01532
508-450-0844
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[maurice tougas]

My understanding is that Cosmic Crisp will be an open variety in seven
years.

 Numbers we were quoted for "all in" establishment costs per acre was
$60,000 on a large planting. No land acquisition costs. Land prep, trees,
support, tractors, irrigation, machinery buildings and housing for H2A
labor included. I do not know if overhead towards packing facility was
factored in.

Mo Tougas
Tougas Family Farm llc

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Craig J. Kahlke  wrote:

> David,
>
>
>
> Thanks for sharing this.  When WA decides on something, it’s full speed
> ahead.
>
>
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
>
> Craig J. Kahlke
>
> Area Extension Educator
>
> Fruit Quality Management
>
> Team Leader
>
> Lake Ontario Fruit Program
>
> Cornell Cooperative Extension
>
> 4487 Lake Ave
>
> Lockport, NY 14094
>
> Cell: 585-735-5448 <(585)%20735-5448>
>
> Work: 716-433-8839, ext. 237 <(716)%20433-8839>
>
> Fax: 716-438-0275 <(716)%20438-0275>
>
> Email: cj...@cornell.edu
>
> http://lof.cce.cornell.edu/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] *On
> Behalf Of *David Doud
> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 10:33 AM
> *To:* Apple-Crop discussion list 
> *Subject:* [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp
>
>
>
> A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with
> Cosmic Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering -
>
>
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamble-big-cosmic-
> crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card
>
>
>
> 'et cavete ab agricola’ -
>
> 'let the grower beware'…
>
> …and the sales desks also...
>
>
>
> David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties -
>
> so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights
> ago...
>
>
>
> ___
> apple-crop mailing list
> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>
>


-- 
Maurice Tougas
Tougas Family Farm
Northborough,MA 01532
508-450-0844
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[Hugh Thomas]

First of all, "Cosmic Crisp" is a stupid name, no doubt, some committee
consisting of 500 came up with it. Sounds like a pimpled-up teen-aged
super-hero character from another planet who gets real flakey if you mess
with him. And by the way, he has a red outfit with a big logo on his chest
with a yellow *CC*.  Secondly, it doesn't taste that good. I've tasted it
two or three times. Third, I understand it's meant for Washington growers
only, wherein WSU has a restriction. I not sure about this, but if true, I
wonder if WSU gets any our federal taxes. Is so, and you want to grow it,
contact your Senator.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:59 AM, maurice tougas  wrote:

> My understanding is that Cosmic Crisp will be an open variety in seven
> years.
>
>  Numbers we were quoted for "all in" establishment costs per acre was
> $60,000 on a large planting. No land acquisition costs. Land prep, trees,
> support, tractors, irrigation, machinery buildings and housing for H2A
> labor included. I do not know if overhead towards packing facility was
> factored in.
>
> Mo Tougas
> Tougas Family Farm llc
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Craig J. Kahlke 
> wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for sharing this.  When WA decides on something, it’s full speed
>> ahead.
>>
>>
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Craig J. Kahlke
>>
>> Area Extension Educator
>>
>> Fruit Quality Management
>>
>> Team Leader
>>
>> Lake Ontario Fruit Program
>>
>> Cornell Cooperative Extension
>>
>> 4487 Lake Ave
>>
>> Lockport, NY 14094
>>
>> Cell: 585-735-5448 <(585)%20735-5448>
>>
>> Work: 716-433-8839, ext. 237 <(716)%20433-8839>
>>
>> Fax: 716-438-0275 <(716)%20438-0275>
>>
>> Email: cj...@cornell.edu
>>
>> http://lof.cce.cornell.edu/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] *On
>> Behalf Of *David Doud
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 10:33 AM
>> *To:* Apple-Crop discussion list 
>> *Subject:* [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp
>>
>>
>>
>> A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with
>> Cosmic Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering -
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-
>> gamble-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card
>>
>>
>>
>> 'et cavete ab agricola’ -
>>
>> 'let the grower beware'…
>>
>> …and the sales desks also...
>>
>>
>>
>> David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties -
>>
>> so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights
>> ago...
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> apple-crop mailing list
>> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
>> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Maurice Tougas
> Tougas Family Farm
> Northborough,MA 01532
> 508-450-0844 <(508)%20450-0844>
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

[Arthur Harvey]

Not to doubt the advice regarding  "foliage feeding the cut from above"but 
how does that relate to the theory of apical dominance we used to hear about?

On Tue, 3/21/17, David Kollas  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts
 To: "Apple-Crop discussion list" 
 Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 11:13 AM
 
 Dean:  I use Doc Farwell’s Seal
 and Heal (green) or the similar Doc Farwell’s Grafting
 Seal on cuts thatI think will not
 heal over within two or three years if they do not slope enough to shed
 rain over theraised lip of new growth.  Wood
 rot develops on wounds that provide wet conditions favorable
 to decay. Large cuts made
 to permit grafting do not heal rapidly if there is no
 foliage feeding the cut fromabove. Observe temperature limitations
 on the label.
 David KollasKollas OrchardTolland, CT  
 On Mar 9, 2017, at
 2:47 PM, Dean 
 wrote:
 We have
 made some large cuts,
 4-6" seems like some latex paint
 would be helpful (apples). 
 Realize standard advice says no
 But ready for advice.
 Thanks
 77 tues
 forecast 15 tomorrow night in central Iowa. 
 
 
 Regards, Dean
 Www.berrypatchfarm.com
 
 ___
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 list
 apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
 http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
 
 
 -Inline Attachment Follows-
 
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

[Juliet Evelyn Carroll]

Most wood decay fungi are Basidiomycetes (bracket, shelf and conk fungi). To 
prevent the growth of wood decay fungi in lumber, the wood needs to be below 
(if memory serves) about 5% water content. So, yes, they like wood to be moist.
Water molds are Oomycetes, considered more closely aligned with algae, and 
include Phytophthora, Pythium and the downy mildews. For apple growers - 
Phytophthora root and crown rot is your least favorite water mold.
Julie
Juliet E. Carroll, PhD
Fruit IPM Coordinator, New York State Integrated Pest Management (IPM) Program
Cornell University, 630 W. North St., Geneva, NY 14456
315-787-2430 (Fax -2360), j...@cornell.edu
Cornell Cooperative Extension provides equal program & employment opportunity
Diversity and inclusion are a part of Cornell University's heritage



-Original Message-
From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] On Behalf Of 
Tom Auvil
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 11:10 AM
To: 'Apple-Crop discussion list' 
Subject: Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

Dean, 

Many if not most wood decay fungi are 'water molds' that need moisture and 
temperature to germinate and grow.  Most latex / exterior paints are 
manufactured to 'seal' things up and can increase the incidence of disease.
A WSU pathologist recommended a copper spray or adding copper to a white wash 
would be better than a sealing paint. Grafters use sealants  to encourage the 
scion and trunk to callus and knit together before the tissues dry out and 
cease activity. Another disease management factor is if there are a number of 
trees/trunks with wood decay activity in the orchard. The more disease in the 
field increases risk and encourages treatment. 

Tom and Rose Auvil
PO Box 408
Orondo, WA 98843

tau...@nwi.net

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] On Behalf Of 
Dean
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 11:47 AM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

We have made some large cuts,
4-6" seems like some latex paint would be helpful (apples). 
Realize standard advice says no
But ready for advice. Thanks
77 tues forecast 15 tomorrow night in central Iowa. 


Regards, Dean
Www.berrypatchfarm.com

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Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

[Dean]

Thanks a lot. 

Regards, Dean
Www.berrypatchfarm.com


> On Mar 21, 2017, at 10:09 AM, Tom Auvil  wrote:
> 
> Dean, 
> 
> Many if not most wood decay fungi are 'water molds' that need moisture and
> temperature to germinate and grow.  Most latex / exterior paints are
> manufactured to 'seal' things up and can increase the incidence of disease.
> A WSU pathologist recommended a copper spray or adding copper to a white
> wash would be better than a sealing paint. Grafters use sealants  to
> encourage the scion and trunk to callus and knit together before the tissues
> dry out and cease activity. Another disease management factor is if there
> are a number of trees/trunks with wood decay activity in the orchard. The
> more disease in the field increases risk and encourages treatment. 
> 
> Tom and Rose Auvil
> PO Box 408
> Orondo, WA 98843
> 
> tau...@nwi.net
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] On Behalf Of
> Dean
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 11:47 AM
> To: Apple-Crop
> Subject: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts
> 
> We have made some large cuts,
> 4-6" seems like some latex paint would be helpful (apples). 
> Realize standard advice says no
> But ready for advice. Thanks
> 77 tues forecast 15 tomorrow night in central Iowa. 
> 
> 
> Regards, Dean
> Www.berrypatchfarm.com
> 
> ___
> apple-crop mailing list
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> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
> 
> 
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

[Juliet Evelyn Carroll]

Apical dominance has to do with leaves and green shoots, not wood. The cambium 
produces wood (xylem) to the interior and "bark" (phloem) to the exterior. The 
cork cambium layer, which is outside the phloem, produces the actual flaky and 
tree-species-distinctive outer bark on the trunk. Having leaves and shoots 
above the large pruning cut provides carbohydrate for the growth of the callous 
and eventual xylem and phloem around the large cut surface. Water goes up 
through the xylem and photosynthate travels down through the phloem. The 
photosynthate feeds the living tissue around the pruning cut, hastening healing.
Julie
Juliet E. Carroll, PhD
Fruit IPM Coordinator, New York State Integrated Pest Management (IPM) Program
Cornell University, 630 W. North St., Geneva, NY 14456
315-787-2430 (Fax -2360), j...@cornell.edu
Cornell Cooperative Extension provides equal program & employment opportunity
Diversity and inclusion are a part of Cornell University’s heritage




-Original Message-
From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] On Behalf Of 
Arthur Harvey
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:54 PM
To: Apple-Crop discussion list 
Subject: Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

Not to doubt the advice regarding  "foliage feeding the cut from above"but 
how does that relate to the theory of apical dominance we used to hear about?

On Tue, 3/21/17, David Kollas  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts
 To: "Apple-Crop discussion list" 
 Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 11:13 AM
 
 Dean:  I use Doc Farwell’s Seal
 and Heal (green) or the similar Doc Farwell’s Grafting  Seal on cuts thatI 
think will not  heal over within two or three years if they do not slope enough 
to shed  rain over theraised lip of new growth.  Wood  rot develops on wounds 
that provide wet conditions favorable  to decay. Large cuts made  to permit 
grafting do not heal rapidly if there is no  foliage feeding the cut fromabove. 
Observe temperature limitations  on the label.
 David KollasKollas OrchardTolland, CT  On Mar 9, 2017, at
 2:47 PM, Dean 
 wrote:
 We have
 made some large cuts,
 4-6" seems like some latex paint
 would be helpful (apples). 
 Realize standard advice says no
 But ready for advice.
 Thanks
 77 tues
 forecast 15 tomorrow night in central Iowa. 
 
 
 Regards, Dean
 Www.berrypatchfarm.com
 
 ___
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 list
 apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
 http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
 
 
 -Inline Attachment Follows-
 
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

[Dean]

Thanks. 

Regards, Dean
Www.berrypatchfarm.com


> On Mar 21, 2017, at 10:13 AM, David Kollas  wrote:
> 
> Dean:
>   I use Doc Farwell’s Seal and Heal (green) or the similar Doc Farwell’s 
> Grafting Seal on cuts that
> I think will not heal over within two or three years if they do not slope 
> enough to shed rain over the
> raised lip of new growth.  Wood rot develops on wounds that provide wet 
> conditions favorable to 
> decay. Large cuts made to permit grafting do not heal rapidly if there is no 
> foliage feeding the cut from
> above. Observe temperature limitations on the label.
> 
> David Kollas
> Kollas Orchard
> Tolland, CT
>   
>> On Mar 9, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Dean  wrote:
>> 
>> We have made some large cuts,
>> 4-6" seems like some latex paint would be helpful (apples). 
>> Realize standard advice says no
>> But ready for advice. Thanks
>> 77 tues forecast 15 tomorrow night in central Iowa. 
>> 
>> 
>> Regards, Dean
>> Www.berrypatchfarm.com
>> 
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[David Doud]

Hugh - please don’t hold back - tell us how you really feel - 

“...red outfit with a big logo on his chest with a yellow CC.” - - and don’t go 
giving away marketing ideas - make ‘em pay for them - 
D




> On Mar 21, 2017, at 1:15 PM, Hugh Thomas  wrote:
> 
> First of all, "Cosmic Crisp" is a stupid name, no doubt, some committee 
> consisting of 500 came up with it. Sounds like a pimpled-up teen-aged 
> super-hero character from another planet who gets real flakey if you mess 
> with him. And by the way, he has a red outfit with a big logo on his chest 
> with a yellow CC.  Secondly, it doesn't taste that good. I've tasted it two 
> or three times. Third, I understand it's meant for Washington growers only, 
> wherein WSU has a restriction. I not sure about this, but if true, I wonder 
> if WSU gets any our federal taxes. Is so, and you want to grow it, contact 
> your Senator. 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:59 AM, maurice tougas  > wrote:
> My understanding is that Cosmic Crisp will be an open variety in seven years.
> 
>  Numbers we were quoted for "all in" establishment costs per acre was $60,000 
> on a large planting. No land acquisition costs. Land prep, trees, support, 
> tractors, irrigation, machinery buildings and housing for H2A labor included. 
> I do not know if overhead towards packing facility was factored in.
> 
> Mo Tougas
> Tougas Family Farm llc
> 
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Craig J. Kahlke  > wrote:
> David,
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks for sharing this.  When WA decides on something, it’s full speed 
> ahead. 
> 
>  
> 
> Craig
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Craig J. Kahlke
> 
> Area Extension Educator
> 
> Fruit Quality Management
> 
> Team Leader
> 
> Lake Ontario Fruit Program
> 
> Cornell Cooperative Extension
> 
> 4487 Lake Ave
> 
> Lockport, NY 14094
> 
> Cell: 585-735-5448 
> Work: 716-433-8839, ext. 237 
> Fax: 716-438-0275   
> 
> Email: cj...@cornell.edu 
> http://lof.cce.cornell.edu/ 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com 
> ] On Behalf Of David Doud
> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 10:33 AM
> To: Apple-Crop discussion list  >
> Subject: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp
> 
>  
> 
> A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with Cosmic 
> Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering - 
> 
>  
> 
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamble-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 'et cavete ab agricola’ - 
> 'let the grower beware'…
> …and the sales desks also...
> 
> 
>  
> David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties - 
> 
> so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights ago...
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ___
> apple-crop mailing list
> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com 
> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Maurice Tougas
> Tougas Family Farm
> Northborough,MA 01532
> 508-450-0844 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

[Arthur Harvey]

Forgive me if I treat the subject of pruning too cavalierly, but I am scheduled 
to give a brief lecture on the various theories.
One of them is apical dominance, which I am left wondering about---is it still 
regarded as a valid consideration in pruning?

Another theory was encapsulated by a NH grower, who, when asked by a group of 
trainees:  Mr Elwood, why did you cut off that branch?he replied:  " I was 
TIRED of looking at it."  Not a totally useless pruning principle, but how is a 
beginner supposed to follow it?
So---the Tiresome Branch Theory of pruning.  

On Tue, 3/21/17, Juliet Evelyn Carroll  wrote:

 Subject: RE: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts
 To: "Arthur Harvey" , "Apple-Crop discussion list" 

 Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 3:31 PM
 
 Apical dominance has to
 do with leaves and green shoots, not wood. The cambium
 produces wood (xylem) to the interior and "bark"
 (phloem) to the exterior. The cork cambium layer, which is
 outside the phloem, produces the actual flaky and
 tree-species-distinctive outer bark on the trunk. Having
 leaves and shoots above the large pruning cut provides
 carbohydrate for the growth of the callous and eventual
 xylem and phloem around the large cut surface. Water goes up
 through the xylem and photosynthate travels down through the
 phloem. The photosynthate feeds the living tissue around the
 pruning cut, hastening healing.
 Julie
 Juliet E. Carroll, PhD
 Fruit
 IPM Coordinator, New York State Integrated Pest Management
 (IPM) Program
 Cornell University, 630 W.
 North St., Geneva, NY 14456
 315-787-2430
 (Fax -2360), j...@cornell.edu
 Cornell Cooperative Extension provides equal
 program & employment opportunity
 Diversity and inclusion are a part of Cornell
 University’s heritage
 
 
 
 
 -Original
 Message-
 From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com]
 On Behalf Of Arthur Harvey
 Sent: Tuesday,
 March 21, 2017 2:54 PM
 To: Apple-Crop
 discussion list 
 Subject: Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts
 
 Not to doubt the advice
 regarding  "foliage feeding the cut from
 above"but how does that relate to the theory of
 apical dominance we used to hear about?
 
 On Tue, 3/21/17, David Kollas 
 wrote:
 
  Subject: Re:
 [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts
  To:
 "Apple-Crop discussion list" 
  Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 11:13 AM
  
  Dean:    I use Doc
 Farwell’s Seal
  and Heal (green) or the
 similar Doc Farwell’s Grafting  Seal on cuts thatI think
 will not  heal over within two or three years if they do
 not slope enough to shed  rain over theraised lip of new
 growth.  Wood  rot develops on wounds that provide wet
 conditions favorable  to decay. Large cuts made  to
 permit grafting do not heal rapidly if there is no  foliage
 feeding the cut fromabove. Observe temperature limitations 
 on the label.
  David KollasKollas
 OrchardTolland, CT  On Mar 9, 2017, at
 
 2:47 PM, Dean 
  wrote:
  We have
  made some large cuts,
 
 4-6" seems like some latex paint
  would
 be helpful (apples). 
  Realize standard
 advice says no
  But ready for advice.
  Thanks
  77 tues
  forecast 15 tomorrow night in central Iowa.
 
  
  
 
 Regards, Dean
  Www.berrypatchfarm.com
  
 
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  list
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[Shoemaker, William H]

So Hugh, I hope it didn't taste "pimpled-up". Could you tell us what were the 
negatives and positives of your tasting experience?

Thanks for a good laugh.

Bill

William H. Shoemaker

Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist

University of Illinois

wshoe...@illinois.edu


From: apple-crop [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] on behalf of Hugh 
Thomas [hughthoma...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 12:15 PM
To: Apple-Crop discussion list
Subject: Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

First of all, "Cosmic Crisp" is a stupid name, no doubt, some committee 
consisting of 500 came up with it. Sounds like a pimpled-up teen-aged 
super-hero character from another planet who gets real flakey if you mess with 
him. And by the way, he has a red outfit with a big logo on his chest with a 
yellow CC.  Secondly, it doesn't taste that good. I've tasted it two or three 
times. Third, I understand it's meant for Washington growers only, wherein WSU 
has a restriction. I not sure about this, but if true, I wonder if WSU gets any 
our federal taxes. Is so, and you want to grow it, contact your Senator.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:59 AM, maurice tougas 
mailto:appleman.maur...@gmail.com>> wrote:
My understanding is that Cosmic Crisp will be an open variety in seven years.

 Numbers we were quoted for "all in" establishment costs per acre was $60,000 
on a large planting. No land acquisition costs. Land prep, trees, support, 
tractors, irrigation, machinery buildings and housing for H2A labor included. I 
do not know if overhead towards packing facility was factored in.

Mo Tougas
Tougas Family Farm llc

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Craig J. Kahlke 
mailto:cj...@cornell.edu>> wrote:
David,

Thanks for sharing this.  When WA decides on something, it’s full speed ahead.

Craig


Craig J. Kahlke
Area Extension Educator
Fruit Quality Management
Team Leader
Lake Ontario Fruit Program
Cornell Cooperative Extension
4487 Lake Ave
Lockport, NY 14094
Cell: 585-735-5448
Work: 716-433-8839, ext. 237
Fax: 716-438-0275
Email: cj...@cornell.edu
http://lof.cce.cornell.edu/


From: apple-crop 
[mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com]
 On Behalf Of David Doud
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 10:33 AM
To: Apple-Crop discussion list 
mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.com>>
Subject: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with Cosmic 
Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering -

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamble-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card


'et cavete ab agricola’ -

'let the grower beware'…
…and the sales desks also...



David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties -
so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights ago...



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--
Maurice Tougas
Tougas Family Farm
Northborough,MA 01532
508-450-0844

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Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[Hugh Thomas]

I attended the annual trade show in Washington for two years in a row,
about 2013 -14. At that show Cosmic Crisp was displayed, hyped and offered
as a tasting. I tried it twice at one show and then again at the next
year's show. There was some "crisp'" like most apples, but the taste was
shallow, it didn't linger. The crisp part was far less than Honeycrisp, and
the taste part was a lessened sensation. This is, of course, a subjective
interpretation. My taste buds are unique like my DNA, and others may have a
different view. My view is that Honeycrisp "explodes" in the mouth,
(speaking of my Honeycrisp, grown at 3500' elevation in Montana, with
summer nights cooling to 40-50 degrees F) and Cosmic Crisp is just another
apple. Most of the apples grown around Yakama, Washington have this
problem. The taste is shallow, and the fruit is huge from some orchards. I
believe the problem is night time temps. If an apple cools at night, the
fruit is smaller, firmer and sweeter. My take on it. I am not a Phd or
officially trained biologist. My guess, which is not based on science or
objective measurement, is that the hype was projected, the growers bought
into it, and now this Cosmic Crisp will enter the market and high elevation
honey crisp will blow it out of the water.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Shoemaker, William H  wrote:

> So Hugh, I hope it didn't taste "pimpled-up". Could you tell us what were
> the negatives and positives of your tasting experience?
>
> Thanks for a good laugh.
>
> Bill
>
> *William H. Shoemaker *
>
> *Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist*
>
> *University of Illinois*
>
> wshoe...@illinois.edu
> --
> *From:* apple-crop [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] on behalf of
> Hugh Thomas [hughthoma...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 21, 2017 12:15 PM
> *To:* Apple-Crop discussion list
> *Subject:* Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp
>
> First of all, "Cosmic Crisp" is a stupid name, no doubt, some committee
> consisting of 500 came up with it. Sounds like a pimpled-up teen-aged
> super-hero character from another planet who gets real flakey if you mess
> with him. And by the way, he has a red outfit with a big logo on his chest
> with a yellow *CC*.  Secondly, it doesn't taste that good. I've tasted it
> two or three times. Third, I understand it's meant for Washington growers
> only, wherein WSU has a restriction. I not sure about this, but if true, I
> wonder if WSU gets any our federal taxes. Is so, and you want to grow it,
> contact your Senator.
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:59 AM, maurice tougas <
> appleman.maur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My understanding is that Cosmic Crisp will be an open variety in seven
>> years.
>>
>>  Numbers we were quoted for "all in" establishment costs per acre was
>> $60,000 on a large planting. No land acquisition costs. Land prep, trees,
>> support, tractors, irrigation, machinery buildings and housing for H2A
>> labor included. I do not know if overhead towards packing facility was
>> factored in.
>>
>> Mo Tougas
>> Tougas Family Farm llc
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Craig J. Kahlke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing this.  When WA decides on something, it’s full speed
>>> ahead.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Craig J. Kahlke
>>>
>>> Area Extension Educator
>>>
>>> Fruit Quality Management
>>>
>>> Team Leader
>>>
>>> Lake Ontario Fruit Program
>>>
>>> Cornell Cooperative Extension
>>>
>>> 4487 Lake Ave
>>>
>>> Lockport, NY 14094
>>>
>>> Cell: 585-735-5448 <(585)%20735-5448>
>>>
>>> Work: 716-433-8839, ext. 237 <(716)%20433-8839>
>>>
>>> Fax: 716-438-0275 <(716)%20438-0275>
>>>
>>> Email: cj...@cornell.edu
>>>
>>> http://lof.cce.cornell.edu/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] *On
>>> Behalf Of *David Doud
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 10:33 AM
>>> *To:* Apple-Crop discussion list 
>>> *Subject:* [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with
>>> Cosmic Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering -
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamb
>>> le-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 'et cavete ab agricola’ -
>>>
>>> 'let the grower beware'…
>>>
>>> …and the sales desks also...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties -
>>>
>>> so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights
>>> ago...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> apple-crop mailing list
>>> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
>>> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Maurice Tougas
>> Tougas Family Farm
>> Northborough,MA 01532
>> 508-450-0844 <(508)%20450-0844>
>>
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