AW: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client
Martin you are right in many aspect. I am a newby to SOAP & WS, but have some years with OO and CORBA too. the architectural concept for MY agent, for shure, it requires constraints. i.e. a client needs to know the service an agent can provide without knowing the details how the agent gets to the answer. for the client the agent is the server, the service provider. Beneficial for the client. It has to know only one interface, one "contract". would you allow to say, an agent is a broker and knows where a certain service is delivered which can fulfill the request of the client asking? asking just a proxy is for sure a no-go in my scenario, - but is often seen with varying results. i.e. I would myself not ask just agent when I intend to find a "cheap-air-line-ticket-provider". In this context I have to know those agents working close with "air-line-ticket-providers", but not more. I.e. I would myself not ask an "air-line-ticket-proving-agent" when I seek a car for which I intend to spend a certain budget but expect otherwhise the best matching/performing care for my money. As a client, asking a "cheap-airline-tickets-provider-agent" can be beneficial i.e. I do not have to sort out and work-up all the varying details (datatypes) provided by various n types of "air-line-ticket-providers" to be able to get the best price/performance match. How the agent sorts out details returnd from the servers is the secret of the agent in charge as a server to its client. As long as the agent can provide to the client what the client wants, all is OK for the client. I think it also a very common mistake that client's know too much about servers, which has a bad impact when the server changes. But, not knowing anything about a server and just asking a proxy points to a client, (unless the client is introspecting by intention the server on a dedicated interface.) This could be an administrative function for an agent in an atempt to find new matching servers, new "air-line-ticket-providers". New servers to deal with when the client intends to pay. etc.etc. Implementing an agent can be of great help. it can take the burden of sorting out all kind of late changes at the server side edge. Given the case that an agent deals with 3 service providers, maybe 4 tomorrow. the client shall not know about this. In this case a server can shut down, the client is still served unless there are no more servers, in which case the agent migth have a suggestion or the like, and tell the client that he can wait unless at least one server is back, or can cancel his request, or offers him an asynchronous callback if forseen. Should a server change and the agent does not come clear with this change. Nothing will happend to the client. The client gets served. But the agent will possibly be modified to adopt for the changed/new type answer of one of it's service providers. (i.e. refine the RPC or CORBA IDL to the new/changed server, then get/generate) new stubs to talk properly to the new/changed server(s)). Over all, the result is a system more "resilent to change" I would also call it a more robust system. As a SOAP/WS newby, I can not yet see how to implement this best using SOAP/WS, but with CORBA I would build my "expert-agent" with this architectural constraints in mind. Josef -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-Von: Martin Gainty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Oktober 2006 14:59An: axis-user@ws.apache.orgBetreff: Re: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client Josef- Having been involved with individuals who introduce race conditions on either the DB or Webapp layerscauses me to be careful around engineers who are coding SoapServices which are in fact not SOAPServices but instead are Proxies assembling data points from n number of SOAPclients In those particular scenarios You will have to have introduce some sort of architectural constraint where a developer that desires a complexDataType resultsetwould NOT inadvertently introduce a SOAPService which is NOT a soap service per se but is a soap client to n number of unknown SOAP Services but WILL return the correct complexDataType from SOAPService I cannot speak in a comprehensive manner as to the efficacy of CORBA but my understanding of CORBA states that CORBA supports marshalling discrete elements of known datatype from client thru IIOP to to ORB implementorWhether you are using CORBA or I am using RPC it seems that we both are using 2 differing implementations of
Re: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client
A BPEL is a web service workflow. You can design a BPEL to invoke a web service chain, deploy it in a BPEL engine to execute the process. In this way the first web service pass its result to the second web service ... - Original Message - From: Stadelmann Josef To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 3:32 PM Subject: AW: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client Can you please explain me what a BPEL is (Business Process Engineering Language)? What is it in your terms? Josef -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-Von: Jesús Daniel Blázquez Carazo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Oktober 2006 14:37An: axis-user@ws.apache.orgBetreff: Re: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client Have you think about the possibility of describe this web services chain as a BPEL? - Original Message - From: Stadelmann Josef To: axis-user@ws.apache.org ; Martin Gainty Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 2:04 PM Subject: AW: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client Are you saying that the architectural concept of having a CLIENT going to an AGENT passing on to a SERVER is bad? :-/ In my mind an AGENT is two-fold as described by .-1 what all about is the then CORBA? :-) Josef Stadelmann -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-Von: Martin Gainty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Oktober 2006 13:24An: axis-user@ws.apache.orgBetreff: Re: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client would be helpful if you looked at the definition of atomic transactions and the principle of atomicityredesigning a web service that itself is a client to another web service may possibly invite a race condition AxisClient1 calls AxisService1 and expects output from AxisService1 AxisService1 calls AxisService2 and expects output from AxisService2AxisService2 calls AxisService3 and expects output from AxisService3 AxisService3 calls AxisService1 (AxisService3 is contending for output for AxisService1 but so is AxisClient1) therefore AxisService3 AND AxisClient1 are both vying for the same resource (AxisService1) from a purely architectural perspective this is BAD DESIGNIf you want more than 1 data item then your AxisSoapService should return a complex datatype which wholly contains all of the data points you desire Please read this discussion of atomicity by svend frolund http://www.w3.org/2001/03/WSWS-popa/paper50 Martin -- This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have receivedthis communication in error and that any review, disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of it or its contents - Original Message - From: Kestonas JoJo To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client Hi all,I am curious is it possible to configure AXIS server to invoke another web service as client after response is send to client.for example Transaction like:1. Client No. 1 invokes method of Axis service No. 12. Axis service No 1 responses to Client No. 13. Axis service No 1 invokes web service No. 2 as Client No. 2 4. Axis service No 1 receives response from service No. 2.5. Transaction is commited.Thanks in advance,Kestas
AW: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client
Can you please explain me what a BPEL is (Business Process Engineering Language)? What is it in your terms? Josef -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-Von: Jesús Daniel Blázquez Carazo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Oktober 2006 14:37An: axis-user@ws.apache.orgBetreff: Re: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client Have you think about the possibility of describe this web services chain as a BPEL? - Original Message - From: Stadelmann Josef To: axis-user@ws.apache.org ; Martin Gainty Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 2:04 PM Subject: AW: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client Are you saying that the architectural concept of having a CLIENT going to an AGENT passing on to a SERVER is bad? :-/ In my mind an AGENT is two-fold as described by .-1 what all about is the then CORBA? :-) Josef Stadelmann -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-Von: Martin Gainty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Oktober 2006 13:24An: axis-user@ws.apache.orgBetreff: Re: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client would be helpful if you looked at the definition of atomic transactions and the principle of atomicityredesigning a web service that itself is a client to another web service may possibly invite a race condition AxisClient1 calls AxisService1 and expects output from AxisService1 AxisService1 calls AxisService2 and expects output from AxisService2AxisService2 calls AxisService3 and expects output from AxisService3 AxisService3 calls AxisService1 (AxisService3 is contending for output for AxisService1 but so is AxisClient1) therefore AxisService3 AND AxisClient1 are both vying for the same resource (AxisService1) from a purely architectural perspective this is BAD DESIGNIf you want more than 1 data item then your AxisSoapService should return a complex datatype which wholly contains all of the data points you desire Please read this discussion of atomicity by svend frolund http://www.w3.org/2001/03/WSWS-popa/paper50 Martin -- This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have receivedthis communication in error and that any review, disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of it or its contents - Original Message - From: Kestonas JoJo To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client Hi all,I am curious is it possible to configure AXIS server to invoke another web service as client after response is send to client.for example Transaction like:1. Client No. 1 invokes method of Axis service No. 12. Axis service No 1 responses to Client No. 13. Axis service No 1 invokes web service No. 2 as Client No. 2 4. Axis service No 1 receives response from service No. 2.5. Transaction is commited.Thanks in advance,Kestas
Re: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client
Josef-
Having been involved with individuals who
introduce race conditions on either the DB or Webapp
layerscauses me to be careful around engineers who
are coding SoapServices which are in fact not SOAPServices but instead
are
Proxies assembling data points
from n number of SOAPclients
In those particular scenarios
You will have to have introduce some sort of architectural
constraint where a developer that desires a complexDataType
resultsetwould NOT inadvertently introduce a SOAPService which is NOT a soap service per se but is a soap
client to n number of unknown SOAP Services
but WILL return the correct complexDataType from
SOAPService
I cannot speak in a comprehensive manner as to the
efficacy of CORBA
but my understanding of CORBA states that
CORBA supports marshalling discrete elements of known datatype from client thru
IIOP to to ORB implementorWhether you are using CORBA or I am using RPC
it seems that we both are using 2 differing implementations of the same concept
that isSomeClientRequestsDatatype ->
DeliversRequestViaSomeTransportSpecificDatatype
->ServerAcknowledgesRequestAndAcksWithRequestedDataPoint
Perhaps you can shed some light on how CORBA could
be used in this scenario?
Martin-
This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged information for the use of the designated recipients named above.
If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have
receivedthis communication in error and that any review, disclosure,
dissemination, distribution or copying of it or its contents
- Original Message -
From:
Stadelmann Josef
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org ; Martin Gainty
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:04
AM
Subject: AW: AXIS 1.4: invoke request
after web service sent response to client
Are you saying that the architectural concept of having a
CLIENT going to an AGENT passing on to
a SERVER is bad? :-/
In my mind an AGENT is two-fold as described by .-1
what all about is the then CORBA? :-)
Josef Stadelmann
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-Von: Martin Gainty
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Oktober 2006
13:24An: axis-user@ws.apache.orgBetreff:
Re: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to
client
would be helpful if you looked at the
definition of atomic transactions and the principle of
atomicityredesigning a web service that itself is a client to another
web service may possibly invite a race condition
AxisClient1 calls AxisService1 and expects
output from AxisService1
AxisService1 calls AxisService2 and expects
output from AxisService2AxisService2 calls AxisService3 and expects
output from AxisService3
AxisService3 calls AxisService1 (AxisService3
is contending for output for AxisService1 but so is
AxisClient1)
therefore AxisService3 AND AxisClient1 are both vying for the same resource
(AxisService1)
from a purely architectural
perspective this is BAD DESIGNIf you want more than 1 data item then
your AxisSoapService should return a complex datatype which wholly contains
all of the data points you desire
Please read this discussion of atomicity by
svend frolund
http://www.w3.org/2001/03/WSWS-popa/paper50
Martin --
This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential
and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients
named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that you have receivedthis communication in error and that any review,
disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of it or its
contents
- Original Message -
From:
Kestonas
JoJo
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 6:32
AM
Subject: AXIS 1.4: invoke request
after web service sent response to client
Hi all,I am curious is it possible to configure AXIS server to
invoke another web service as client after response is send to
client.for example Transaction like:1. Client No. 1
invokes method of Axis service No. 12. Axis service No 1 responses to
Client No. 13. Axis service No 1 invokes web service No. 2 as
Client No. 2 4. Axis service No 1 receives response from service No.
2.5. Transaction is commited.Thanks in
advance,Kestas
Re: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client
Have you think about the possibility of describe this web services chain as a BPEL? - Original Message - From: Stadelmann Josef To: axis-user@ws.apache.org ; Martin Gainty Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 2:04 PM Subject: AW: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client Are you saying that the architectural concept of having a CLIENT going to an AGENT passing on to a SERVER is bad? :-/ In my mind an AGENT is two-fold as described by .-1 what all about is the then CORBA? :-) Josef Stadelmann -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-Von: Martin Gainty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Oktober 2006 13:24An: axis-user@ws.apache.orgBetreff: Re: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client would be helpful if you looked at the definition of atomic transactions and the principle of atomicityredesigning a web service that itself is a client to another web service may possibly invite a race condition AxisClient1 calls AxisService1 and expects output from AxisService1 AxisService1 calls AxisService2 and expects output from AxisService2AxisService2 calls AxisService3 and expects output from AxisService3 AxisService3 calls AxisService1 (AxisService3 is contending for output for AxisService1 but so is AxisClient1) therefore AxisService3 AND AxisClient1 are both vying for the same resource (AxisService1) from a purely architectural perspective this is BAD DESIGNIf you want more than 1 data item then your AxisSoapService should return a complex datatype which wholly contains all of the data points you desire Please read this discussion of atomicity by svend frolund http://www.w3.org/2001/03/WSWS-popa/paper50 Martin -- This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have receivedthis communication in error and that any review, disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of it or its contents - Original Message - From: Kestonas JoJo To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client Hi all,I am curious is it possible to configure AXIS server to invoke another web service as client after response is send to client.for example Transaction like:1. Client No. 1 invokes method of Axis service No. 12. Axis service No 1 responses to Client No. 13. Axis service No 1 invokes web service No. 2 as Client No. 2 4. Axis service No 1 receives response from service No. 2.5. Transaction is commited.Thanks in advance,Kestas
AW: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client
Are you saying that the architectural concept of having a CLIENT going to an AGENT passing on to a SERVER is bad? :-/ In my mind an AGENT is two-fold as described by .-1 what all about is the then CORBA? :-) Josef Stadelmann -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-Von: Martin Gainty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Oktober 2006 13:24An: axis-user@ws.apache.orgBetreff: Re: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client would be helpful if you looked at the definition of atomic transactions and the principle of atomicityredesigning a web service that itself is a client to another web service may possibly invite a race condition AxisClient1 calls AxisService1 and expects output from AxisService1 AxisService1 calls AxisService2 and expects output from AxisService2AxisService2 calls AxisService3 and expects output from AxisService3 AxisService3 calls AxisService1 (AxisService3 is contending for output for AxisService1 but so is AxisClient1) therefore AxisService3 AND AxisClient1 are both vying for the same resource (AxisService1) from a purely architectural perspective this is BAD DESIGNIf you want more than 1 data item then your AxisSoapService should return a complex datatype which wholly contains all of the data points you desire Please read this discussion of atomicity by svend frolund http://www.w3.org/2001/03/WSWS-popa/paper50 Martin -- This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have receivedthis communication in error and that any review, disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of it or its contents - Original Message - From: Kestonas JoJo To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client Hi all,I am curious is it possible to configure AXIS server to invoke another web service as client after response is send to client.for example Transaction like:1. Client No. 1 invokes method of Axis service No. 12. Axis service No 1 responses to Client No. 13. Axis service No 1 invokes web service No. 2 as Client No. 2 4. Axis service No 1 receives response from service No. 2.5. Transaction is commited.Thanks in advance,Kestas
Re: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client
would be helpful if you looked at the definition of atomic transactions and the principle of atomicityredesigning a web service that itself is a client to another web service may possibly invite a race condition AxisClient1 calls AxisService1 and expects output from AxisService1 AxisService1 calls AxisService2 and expects output from AxisService2AxisService2 calls AxisService3 and expects output from AxisService3 AxisService3 calls AxisService1 (AxisService3 is contending for output for AxisService1 but so is AxisClient1) therefore AxisService3 AND AxisClient1 are both vying for the same resource (AxisService1) from a purely architectural perspective this is BAD DESIGNIf you want more than 1 data item then your AxisSoapService should return a complex datatype which wholly contains all of the data points you desire Please read this discussion of atomicity by svend frolund http://www.w3.org/2001/03/WSWS-popa/paper50 Martin -- This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have receivedthis communication in error and that any review, disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of it or its contents - Original Message - From: Kestonas JoJo To: axis-user@ws.apache.org Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client Hi all,I am curious is it possible to configure AXIS server to invoke another web service as client after response is send to client.for example Transaction like:1. Client No. 1 invokes method of Axis service No. 12. Axis service No 1 responses to Client No. 13. Axis service No 1 invokes web service No. 2 as Client No. 2 4. Axis service No 1 receives response from service No. 2.5. Transaction is commited.Thanks in advance,Kestas
AXIS 1.4: invoke request after web service sent response to client
Hi all,I am curious is it possible to configure AXIS server to invoke another web service as client after response is send to client.for example Transaction like:1. Client No. 1 invokes method of Axis service No. 12. Axis service No 1 responses to Client No. 13. Axis service No 1 invokes web service No. 2 as Client No. 2 4. Axis service No 1 receives response from service No. 2.5. Transaction is commited.Thanks in advance,Kestas
