Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Marriage separation?

2016-01-26 Thread Mark 
Cheri,

Please do use these records to let others know that you never know what you 
are going to find.

. Below is two links for Emilia and Rufino's exposto, children Henrique & 
Jose. What was funny to me is that on these records, Rufino is listed as 
"auzente" or "ausente". I am roughly translating that as missing?? Rufino 
sure does have a lot of kids for someone who is listed as separated, or 
immigrated, or missing. 

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-CANDELARIA-B-1880-1889/SMG-PD-CANDELARIA-B-1880-1889_item1/P131.html

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-CANDELARIA-B-1880-1889/SMG-PD-CANDELARIA-B-1880-1889_item1/P168.html

I think the only "normal" baptism record I have for a child of Rufino da 
Camara and Emilia de Jesus is my great grandfather Manuel dos Santos 
Amarante but then again, I'm not sure how "normal" that one is as family 
lore goes that he was "adopted by a lady in the Azores  named Roza 
Ermilinda Amarante" hence my last name Amarantes and not da Camara.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-CANDELARIA-B-1870-1879/SMG-PD-CANDELARIA-B-1870-1879_item1/P165.html


 I love this Azores research!!

On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 3:45:44 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> Yeah, and I have the "adultry" one too, where the priest calls the father, 
> a single man, an adulter, and just says the mom was married to so-and-so.
>

-- 
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) 
mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the right 
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Marriage separation?

2016-01-26 Thread Cheri Mello 
Joao Ventura, the archivist, explained this at our conference in Salt Lake.
I hope Rosemarie or another attendee remembers better than I do.  "Auzente"
or "ausente" is absent. That person was absent when someone came by. (This
is where I hope someone else remembers). They were absent from doing the
Lenten confession or something. I can't remember what.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

-- 
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) 
mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the right 
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Marriage separation?

2016-01-26 Thread Rosemarie Capodicci 
I don't remember the exact 'meaning' except papa wasn't there!! I took it
to mean he was absent at conception!!


Rosemarie
rcap...@gmail.com
Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Joao Ventura, the archivist, explained this at our conference in Salt
> Lake. I hope Rosemarie or another attendee remembers better than I do.
> "Auzente" or "ausente" is absent. That person was absent when someone came
> by. (This is where I hope someone else remembers). They were absent from
> doing the Lenten confession or something. I can't remember what.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>

-- 
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) 
mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the right 
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Marriage separation?

2016-01-26 Thread Margaret Vicente 
The ceremonial act of the child presentation is being erroneously
interpreted.

Link 1: Henrique is not a child of Rufino. The priest says he named the
child Henrique of incognito parents.  The child was presented to him by
Emilia de Jesus wife of Rufino who is away.  The presenter of the child
could be the parents or a family member but in this case of parents unknown
perhaps Emilia was caring for the baby at this point.

Link 2: exposto child also presented by Emilia.

It is safe to conclude that either Emilia was the church housekeeper or she
was looking after abandoned babies.

When records say "ausente" it really means not present for this act or in
fact away because they took jobs elsewhere on the island or emigrated.



On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Joao Ventura, the archivist, explained this at our conference in Salt
> Lake. I hope Rosemarie or another attendee remembers better than I do.
> "Auzente" or "ausente" is absent. That person was absent when someone came
> by. (This is where I hope someone else remembers). They were absent from
> doing the Lenten confession or something. I can't remember what.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>



-- 
Margaret M Vicente

-- 
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) 
mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the right 
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Marriage separation?

2016-01-25 Thread Margaret Vicente 
Mark,

It say the child Joao is the natural son of Emilia de Jesus married to
Rufino da Camara who was away or may have imigrated more than 2 years ago.
It goes on to list the maternal grandparents with the paternal grandparents
being "unknown" incognito.

On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Mark  wrote:

> Thanks for your help. I figured that they were seperated. I also have
> another record for them that seems to list Rufino as "imigrado"
>
> .
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-CANDELARIA-B-1880-1889/SMG-PD-CANDELARIA-B-1880-1889_item1/P101.html
>
>
>  I am guessing he immigrated to somewhere else when this son Joao was born
> but why wouldn't it say "filho legitimo"? If it is still his son or maybe
> its not. I always know something is up when the mother is listed first  in
> a baptism record then casado to: This seems to say that she was the mother
> but she was married to:??  I guess that it unless it says filho or filha
> ligitmo then lists the father then it is otherwise not his.
>
> On Saturday, January 23, 2016 at 9:17:18 PM UTC-5, Mark wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Can anyone take a look at this record and let me know what you think:
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-CANDELARIA-B-1880-1889/SMG-PD-CANDELARIA-B-1880-1889_item1/P172.html
>>
>>
>> It is a baptism record for a Maria (entry # 39) that doesn't list her
>> father or say exposto or pai incognito. I can make out what looks like
>> seperada (9th line). Does this mean the parents were seperated?
>>
>> I have about four other baptism records for the same couple that showed
>> they were the parents of exposto children and in all theses records, the
>> wife (Emilia de Jesus) was always listed on the record first,  then it said
>> casada ? Rufino da Camara. Maybethis record just doesn't mention him this
>> time but what is with the "seperada"?
>>
>> This record doesn't mention him at all. Could they have been seperated? I
>> don't see any words that can mean dead or buried. I don't think I've heard
>> of couples being separated back then in the Azores. I'm sure it's possible
>> but I have just never come across it.
>>
>>
>> As a side note, of the 4 records for exposto children I believe Emilia
>> and Rufino took in, 3 of them have their names smudged or erased from the
>> index pages of these books. Was that done on purpose to protect them later
>> on in life? I know from my limited research into Azores genealogy that the
>> "tag" of Exposto or pai incognito usually followed a person with them into
>> most other records like passports, marriage, death. Why try to erase their
>> status from the indices of these books?
>>
>>
>> Any advice or suggestions anyone can provide would be greatly
>> appreciated. I don't think enough credit is given to many of the group
>> members who help others with translations or advice on many different
>> topics. I know I for one wouldn't get far in my research with out the help
>> the members provide so thanks for that.
>>
>>
>> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>



-- 
Margaret M Vicente

-- 
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) 
mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the right 
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Marriage separation?

2016-01-25 Thread Rosemarie Capodicci 
Yes, Cheri, do because I've not seen anything exactly like this before
either!!

Rosemarie
rcap...@gmail.com
Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Umm, mom, Emilia, is kinda lonely without Rufino being there. :)  Either
> that, or he left because he realized something was going on. Or maybe he
> did  have to leave and Emilia needed help and it evolved into something
> else.  Who knows, you can only let your imagination run wild because the
> books don't talk!
>
> Thanks for finding this though. I think I should use it at the Salt Lake
> Conference in September.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>

-- 
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) 
mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the right 
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Marriage separation?

2016-01-25 Thread Cheri Mello 
Mark,

Umm, mom, Emilia, is kinda lonely without Rufino being there. :)  Either
that, or he left because he realized something was going on. Or maybe he
did  have to leave and Emilia needed help and it evolved into something
else.  Who knows, you can only let your imagination run wild because the
books don't talk!

Thanks for finding this though. I think I should use it at the Salt Lake
Conference in September.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

-- 
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) 
mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the right 
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Marriage separation?

2016-01-25 Thread Rosemarie Capodicci 
Well, that's short and to the point!

Rosemarie
rcap...@gmail.com
Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Yeah, and I have the "adultry" one too, where the priest calls the father,
> a single man, an adulter, and just says the mom was married to so-and-so.
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>

-- 
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) 
mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the right 
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.