[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ton Koopman - pitch of J S B Cantatas (YouTube)
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 4:39 AM, wrote: > just can't just transpose without introducing a real wolf den among the > parts. The organ can't change and the wind players can > > only fudge > embouchure and fingerings so far. So what did they do? >From my own experience I must say that _really_ good windplayers can fudge to any temperament. Extreme pitches can be more of a problem. The 'usual' good ones have trouble playing in tune anyway. ;-) David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ton Koopman - pitch of J S B Cantatas (YouTube)
On Sep 5, 2009, at 10:39 PM, wrote: ...The big issue that has yet to be adequately addressed is how they solved the problem of transposition when using a temperament system. If the semi-tones are not equal one just can't just transpose without introducing a real wolf den among the parts. The organ can't change and the wind players can only fudge embouchure and fingerings so far. So what did they do? Whatever they did, we know one thing for sure: they played a lot of music. DR To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ton Koopman - pitch of J S B Cantatas (YouTube)
In the olden days they transposed because the organ was in high pitch, the wind instruments were in low pitch and everybody else chugged along in the middle. (Bach writes out parts in three different keys.) The big issue that has yet to be adequately addressed is how they solved the problem of transposition when using a temperament system. If the semi-tones are not equal one just can't just transpose without introducing a real wolf den among the parts. The organ can't change and the wind players can only fudge embouchure and fingerings so far. So what did they do? Chris --- On Sat, 9/5/09, David Rastall wrote: > From: David Rastall > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ton Koopman - pitch of J S B Cantatas (YouTube) > To: "BAROQUE-LUTE Lutelist" > Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 9:07 AM > I found this very interesting: > > > http://www.nme.com/awards/video/id/TmqhLIxNnp0/search/koopman > > But I don't understand: with all the transposing > going on between > 465, and 415, what is the outcome pitched at? When TK > says, "put the > whole thing in Eb, and the thing is ready," my question > is: Eb tuned > in what?...415 or 465? > > Another question: if everybody was supposed to be > playing at 415, > why were all instruments not tuned at 415? Why were > some pitched at > 465, and the other French tuning at somewhere below A = 415 > (I can't > remember what the number is)? Apparently singers were > supposed to be > that flexible too... > > Best Regards > > David R > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ton Koopman - pitch of J S B Cantatas (YouTube)
I found this very interesting: > http://www.nme.com/awards/video/id/TmqhLIxNnp0/search/koopman But I don't understand: with all the transposing going on between 465, and 415, what is the outcome pitched at? When TK says, "put the whole thing in Eb, and the thing is ready," my question is: Eb tuned in what?...415 or 465? Another question: if everybody was supposed to be playing at 415, why were all instruments not tuned at 415? Why were some pitched at 465, and the other French tuning at somewhere below A = 415 (I can't remember what the number is)? Apparently singers were supposed to be that flexible too... Best Regards David R -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
