Re: HAVE_LC_MESSAGES

[Bruno Haible]

Sam Steingold wrote:
> also, can I now remove gt_LC_MESSAGES from configure.in?

If HAVE_LC_MESSAGES is nowhere used any more, then yes, you can remove the
invocation of gt_LC_MESSAGES.

Bruno
-- 
In memoriam Paul Schneider 

Re: HAVE_LC_MESSAGES

[Sam Steingold]

> * Sam Steingold  [2011-07-14 17:57:10 -0400]:
>
>> * Bruno Haible  [2011-07-14 23:18:41 +0200]:
>>
>> Sam Steingold asked:
>>> Does clisp need to know whether LC_MESSAGES is supported by the system,
>>> or is a fake one defined by libintl or gnulib.
>>> ...
>>> > No, this is not needed: gettext's libintl.h already defines LC_MESSAGES 
>>> > when
>>> > needed, and clisp uses libintl.h.
>>> 
>>> CLISP includes libintl.h only if ENABLE_NLS is defined (i.e., when
>>> gettext is present).
>>> It uses HAVE_LC_MESSAGES in spvw_ctype.d:init_ctype which is called
>>> unconditionally in spvw.d.
>>> I.e., on platforms without gettext where LC_MESSAGES is not defined
>>> init_ctype is still called and its call
>>> 
>>>   setlocale(LC_MESSAGES,"");
>>> 
>>> must be guarded by either "#if HAVE_LC_MESSAGES" or "#ifdef LC_MESSAGES".
>>
>> By looking at the clisp code history:
>>   $ hg annotate -r 11858 spvw_ctype.d
>>   $ hg diff -r 3562 -r 3563
>> I think the point was to allow the setlocale() call to be enabled even on
>> platforms where  does not have LC_MESSAGES (namely, native 
>> Windows).
>> The macro HAVE_LC_MESSAGES means
>>   - on Unix platforms, that LC_MESSAGES was found in ,
>>   - on Windows platforms, that gettext is in use (always).
>
> what are the benefits of this very complex approach (autoconf, win32 &c &c)
> over a simple "ifdef LC_MESSAGES"?
>
>> I think you can remove the #if because all Unix platforms nowadays have
>> LC_MESSAGES.
>
> what about windows without gettext?

also, can I now remove gt_LC_MESSAGES from configure.in?

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Re: HAVE_LC_MESSAGES

[Sam Steingold]

> * Bruno Haible  [2011-07-14 23:18:41 +0200]:
>
> Sam Steingold asked:
>> Does clisp need to know whether LC_MESSAGES is supported by the system,
>> or is a fake one defined by libintl or gnulib.
>> ...
>> > No, this is not needed: gettext's libintl.h already defines LC_MESSAGES 
>> > when
>> > needed, and clisp uses libintl.h.
>> 
>> CLISP includes libintl.h only if ENABLE_NLS is defined (i.e., when
>> gettext is present).
>> It uses HAVE_LC_MESSAGES in spvw_ctype.d:init_ctype which is called
>> unconditionally in spvw.d.
>> I.e., on platforms without gettext where LC_MESSAGES is not defined
>> init_ctype is still called and its call
>> 
>>   setlocale(LC_MESSAGES,"");
>> 
>> must be guarded by either "#if HAVE_LC_MESSAGES" or "#ifdef LC_MESSAGES".
>
> By looking at the clisp code history:
>   $ hg annotate -r 11858 spvw_ctype.d
>   $ hg diff -r 3562 -r 3563
> I think the point was to allow the setlocale() call to be enabled even on
> platforms where  does not have LC_MESSAGES (namely, native Windows).
> The macro HAVE_LC_MESSAGES means
>   - on Unix platforms, that LC_MESSAGES was found in ,
>   - on Windows platforms, that gettext is in use (always).

what are the benefits of this very complex approach (autoconf, win32 &c &c)
over a simple "ifdef LC_MESSAGES"?

> I think you can remove the #if because all Unix platforms nowadays have
> LC_MESSAGES.

what about windows without gettext?

-- 
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11.0.60900031
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Re: HAVE_LC_MESSAGES

[Bruno Haible]

Sam Steingold asked:
> Does clisp need to know whether LC_MESSAGES is supported by the system,
> or is a fake one defined by libintl or gnulib.
> ...
> > No, this is not needed: gettext's libintl.h already defines LC_MESSAGES when
> > needed, and clisp uses libintl.h.
> 
> CLISP includes libintl.h only if ENABLE_NLS is defined (i.e., when
> gettext is present).
> It uses HAVE_LC_MESSAGES in spvw_ctype.d:init_ctype which is called
> unconditionally in spvw.d.
> I.e., on platforms without gettext where LC_MESSAGES is not defined
> init_ctype is still called and its call
> 
>   setlocale(LC_MESSAGES,"");
> 
> must be guarded by either "#if HAVE_LC_MESSAGES" or "#ifdef LC_MESSAGES".

By looking at the clisp code history:
  $ hg annotate -r 11858 spvw_ctype.d
  $ hg diff -r 3562 -r 3563
I think the point was to allow the setlocale() call to be enabled even on
platforms where  does not have LC_MESSAGES (namely, native Windows).
The macro HAVE_LC_MESSAGES means
  - on Unix platforms, that LC_MESSAGES was found in ,
  - on Windows platforms, that gettext is in use (always).

I think you can remove the #if because all Unix platforms nowadays have
LC_MESSAGES.

Bruno
-- 
In memoriam The men and boys of Srebenica 

Re: HAVE_LC_MESSAGES

[Sam Steingold]

> * Bruno Haible  [2011-07-13 22:44:49 +0200]:
>
> Sam Steingold wrote:
>> does clisp need to know the difference?
>> 
>> > This #if or #ifdef is outdated. The gettext manual [1] explains why.
>> > [1] http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/Triggering.html
>
> The gettext manual answers this question.

Sorry, I need more help here. I read the page and I see no answer to the
question:

Does clisp need to know whether LC_MESSAGES is supported by the system,
or is a fake one defined by libintl or gnulib.

Please remember that I am an "English-only bigot" who believes that all
i18n/l12n efforts are a waste of time :-) so I know very little about
gettext et al and I wish I knew even less.

>> are you suggesting that clisp should import the locale gnulib module instead?
>
> No, this is not needed: gettext's libintl.h already defines LC_MESSAGES when
> needed, and clisp uses libintl.h.

CLISP includes libintl.h only if ENABLE_NLS is defined (i.e., when
gettext is present).
It uses HAVE_LC_MESSAGES in spvw_ctype.d:init_ctype which is called
unconditionally in spvw.d.
I.e., on platforms without gettext where LC_MESSAGES is not defined
init_ctype is still called and its call

  setlocale(LC_MESSAGES,"");

must be guarded by either "#if HAVE_LC_MESSAGES" or "#ifdef LC_MESSAGES".

-- 
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Re: HAVE_LC_MESSAGES

[Bruno Haible]

Sam Steingold wrote:
> does clisp need to know the difference?
> 
> > This #if or #ifdef is outdated. The gettext manual [1] explains why.
> > [1] http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/Triggering.html

The gettext manual answers this question.

> are you suggesting that clisp should import the locale gnulib module instead?

No, this is not needed: gettext's libintl.h already defines LC_MESSAGES when
needed, and clisp uses libintl.h.

Bruno
-- 
In memoriam Kurt Huber 

Re: HAVE_LC_MESSAGES

[Sam Steingold]

Hi,

> * Bruno Haible  [2011-07-13 21:12:49 +0200]:
> Sam Steingold wrote:
>> What's the point of HAVE_LC_MESSAGES?
>
> The point is to tell whether LC_MESSAGES is supported by the system,
> or is a fake one defined by libintl or gnulib.

does clisp need to know the difference?

> This #if or #ifdef is outdated. The gettext manual [1] explains why.
> [1] http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/Triggering.html

are you suggesting that clisp should import the locale gnulib module instead?

-- 
Sam Steingold (http://sds.podval.org/) on CentOS release 5.6 (Final) X 
11.0.60900031
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Oral sex was invented by mermaids.

Re: HAVE_LC_MESSAGES

[Bruno Haible]

Hi,

Sam Steingold wrote:
> What's the point of HAVE_LC_MESSAGES?

The point is to tell whether LC_MESSAGES is supported by the system, or is a
fake one defined by libintl or gnulib.

See doc/posix-headers/locale.texi:

  Portability problems fixed by Gnulib:
  @itemize
  @item
  The definition of @samp{LC_MESSAGES} is missing on some platforms:
  mingw.
  ...

Note that gnulib also overrides setlocale(), so that the "fake" LC_MESSAGES
locale category actually becomes functional.

> However, how is
> 
>  #if HAVE_LC_MESSAGES
>   setlocale(LC_MESSAGES,"");
>  #endif
> 
> better than
> 
>  #ifdef LC_MESSAGES
>   setlocale(LC_MESSAGES,"");
>  #endif
> 
> ??

This #if or #ifdef is outdated. The gettext manual [1] explains why.

Bruno

[1] http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/Triggering.html
-- 
In memoriam Kurt Huber