Re: OT: Reflowing GPUs and the fruit company (was Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.)
On 7/28/19 8:33 PM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote: On 7/28/2019 4:24 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 7/28/19 1:02 PM, Jerry Weiss via cctalk wrote: This method is not limited to "vintage" components. My MacBook Pro 2011 fails dues to its (famous) problem with the discrete AMD GPU connections. A reflow restores the laptop, but inevitably I have repeat the process every few months. Depending on who you believe, the fault is with the A) poor thermal design, b) BGA solder used or C) bumps on the AMD GPU itself. The reflow is easy enough to do, but disconnecting the very fragile cables to remove the motherboard is not for everyone. Using an inexpensive infrared thermometer improves the the process. And of course, the solder is Pb-free... --Chuck Exactly. And machines of that era had a lot of problems (I have reflowed two early PS/3's a total of three times, and a MacBook) as manufacturers climbed the learning curve. The Microsoft XBox 360 "Red Ring of Death" was another instance. I sometimes wonder if I leave the MBP in alone/unused for a year, whether it would heal itself by growing some "tin whiskers"
Re: OT^2: Marketish fever [was: Reflowing GPUs and the fruit company (was Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.)]
On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 09:21:34AM -0400, Ray Arachelian via cctalk wrote: [...] > Overall though I think the $40 I spent to get another 1.8 years out the > machine was worth the trouble - not that it's performant or anything > like that, but because it is the last of its line. Supposedly next year > they'll make a 16" one, but I won't be buying it unless they add in DIMM > slots, replaceable batteries, standard M2/NVME SSD drives, a headphone > jack and multiple ports (not just two measly USB-C ports), and a > keyboard with real travel so it doesn't feel like you're typing on a > screen. And I know that won't happen, so that's why two years ago, I got > a high end laptop (17" 4K display, 1070GPU, i7, 64G RAM) and put Linux > on it - and it cost about the same as a 15" MBP with half the specs. I > don't think I'm going back. Few years ago I was looking to buy some simple, inexpensive cellphones for two. In a store, there was about dozen of cheap Nokia models, all different in names, colors and shapes, but mostly very same for innards: a 128x128 lcd, vga camera, java (i.e. midp) and about 500kb of ram. Or something like this. Not a single model with just nine/or twelve/ keys and 2x16 lcd, without half baked low-end whistles which I never intended to use. I spent quite a bit of time browsing javascripted shop and clickingmoreforspecs and ended a little bit enraged. I think not many people noticed when some time later Nokia finally flopped and I cannot say I was sorry for them. I suppose the story of rise and gutting-in-the-air of flying cell phone giant would make an interesting movie, but I am not holding my breath. At a time, it appeared that their management went totally nuts. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
OT: Reflowing GPUs and the fruit company (was Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.)
Yup, I've had this issue too and it does come back every so often. The first time it lasted nearly a year. The second time, it lasted about 9 months. At some point it will fail to work, or I'll wind up actually damaging the chip and then it won't work anymore. Come to think of it, my very first intel macbook pro which I had back around 2004 or 2005 when it came out also died of a GPU death - I no longer have this, but I'd bet it would also be fixable the same way. Shame that the last of the 17" Macbooks is so easily killed as they're very collectible as they're the last of the 17" as well as the last of the macbooks to have end user replaceable RAM, drives and even batteries (though you have to open the case to do this, and no, they're not glued in.) Hope this issue doesn't affect the 17" G4 PowerBooks as those are really neat, but so far that one's been working great. I used an inexpensive air reflow workstation (was ~$40 off amazon and it's really just a very precise hair drier) and a lot of time. I started slowly bringing the heat nozzle down from about 6 inches all the way down to about an 1" or 2" away from the chip itself. I think I used 220-250'C on the thing, and then I left it alone for a few hours to slowly dissipate the heat and made sure I didn't touch the table it was on to prevent vibrations from messing up the shape of the solder balls, maybe I was overly protective, but it did work. The sad thing is that even with really good thermal compound and using a fan base on that machine, it still happens. Going above 300'C risks melting plastic parts, delaminating the board, etc. That laptop is poorly designed, and like many of the newer versions today suffer from heat issues. I don't know what the point of having a high end i7 or i9 in a laptop is if you can't use it because it will overheat and it will start slowing itself down. I suspect it's not a "pro" feature as much as a marketing feature. I think, before they turned evil around 2012 or so with soldered in RAM, glued in batteries, and on motherboard soldered in SSD, their stuff used to easily last 10-20 years. Now, they're just littering land fills... You're right about the flex cables, you have to be really patient and very careful. I did break one connector off the motherboard the last time I did it, but it didn't affect operation, not sure what it was for, likely the optical drive that I never use. That's another issue, the plastic gets brittle and fragile and the connectors also break, not just the flex cables. It's also hard to remember which way a plug gets released. Some have a little hinge above them that you have to pop open which releases the cable, others slide in, and others are press-down. The iFixIt manuals help a bit, but they're not always clear on which cable needs what, and it's very easy to use too much force and break something. :( Overall though I think the $40 I spent to get another 1.8 years out the machine was worth the trouble - not that it's performant or anything like that, but because it is the last of its line. Supposedly next year they'll make a 16" one, but I won't be buying it unless they add in DIMM slots, replaceable batteries, standard M2/NVME SSD drives, a headphone jack and multiple ports (not just two measly USB-C ports), and a keyboard with real travel so it doesn't feel like you're typing on a screen. And I know that won't happen, so that's why two years ago, I got a high end laptop (17" 4K display, 1070GPU, i7, 64G RAM) and put Linux on it - and it cost about the same as a 15" MBP with half the specs. I don't think I'm going back. Even running Gallium OS on an $300 Acer R11 Chromebook feels as responsive as macOS on one of their $1000 lighter laptops and lasts for about 10 hours. And even better, it can be used in tablet mode, so no need for an iPad. I guess what it boils down to is that I'm still a fan of "Apple Computer, Inc." but that I never really became a fan of "Apple, Inc." :-) Sad really. In a way it feels a lot like MicroSoft back in the late 90s. Hopefully, like the new Microsoft, they'll wake up and be less evil in the future. And I'm still waiting for them to release the Lisa OS sources. :-D On 7/28/19 4:02 PM, Jerry Weiss via cctalk wrote: > This method is not limited to "vintage" components. > > My MacBook Pro 2011 fails dues to its (famous) problem with the > discrete AMD GPU connections. A reflow restores the laptop, but > inevitably I have repeat the process every few months. Depending on > who you believe, the fault is with the A) poor thermal design, b) BGA > solder used or C) bumps on the AMD GPU itself. The reflow is easy > enough to do, but disconnecting the very fragile cables to remove the > motherboard is not for everyone. Using an inexpensive infrared > thermometer improves the the process. > > Jerry > > On 7/27/19 3:50 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote: >> On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 21:24 -0400, Pete Rittwage wrote: >> I did some lookup on the reflow
Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.
On 7/28/2019 4:24 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 7/28/19 1:02 PM, Jerry Weiss via cctalk wrote: >> This method is not limited to "vintage" components. >> >> My MacBook Pro 2011 fails dues to its (famous) problem with the discrete >> AMD GPU connections. A reflow restores the laptop, but inevitably I >> have repeat the process every few months. Depending on who you believe, >> the fault is with the A) poor thermal design, b) BGA solder used or C) >> bumps on the AMD GPU itself. The reflow is easy enough to do, but >> disconnecting the very fragile cables to remove the motherboard is not >> for everyone. Using an inexpensive infrared thermometer improves the the >> process. > > > And of course, the solder is Pb-free... > > > --Chuck > > Exactly. And machines of that era had a lot of problems (I have reflowed two early PS/3's a total of three times, and a MacBook) as manufacturers climbed the learning curve. The Microsoft XBox 360 "Red Ring of Death" was another instance.
Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.
On 7/28/19 1:02 PM, Jerry Weiss via cctalk wrote: > This method is not limited to "vintage" components. > > My MacBook Pro 2011 fails dues to its (famous) problem with the discrete > AMD GPU connections. A reflow restores the laptop, but inevitably I > have repeat the process every few months. Depending on who you believe, > the fault is with the A) poor thermal design, b) BGA solder used or C) > bumps on the AMD GPU itself. The reflow is easy enough to do, but > disconnecting the very fragile cables to remove the motherboard is not > for everyone. Using an inexpensive infrared thermometer improves the the > process. And of course, the solder is Pb-free... --Chuck
Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.
This method is not limited to "vintage" components. My MacBook Pro 2011 fails dues to its (famous) problem with the discrete AMD GPU connections. A reflow restores the laptop, but inevitably I have repeat the process every few months. Depending on who you believe, the fault is with the A) poor thermal design, b) BGA solder used or C) bumps on the AMD GPU itself. The reflow is easy enough to do, but disconnecting the very fragile cables to remove the motherboard is not for everyone. Using an inexpensive infrared thermometer improves the the process. Jerry On 7/27/19 3:50 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote: On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 21:24 -0400, Pete Rittwage wrote: I did some lookup on the reflow temperatures for various solder materials because my gut told me 250 degrees is too low to do any good. Turns out this is so. 250 CELCIUS maybe, but Fahrenheit? not. https://www.google.com/search?q=melting+point+of+solder=isch=iu=1=lNlL1odJeOshrM%253A%252Cdl2_5Te6VgKpAM%252C_=1=AI4_-kRutgIaitoyNNmWoI_dbqyF1P0xmQ=X=2ahUKEwi17--3_NXjAhUK2FkKHZhiCaIQ9QEwAHoECAEQAw#imgrc=lNlL1odJeOshrM : Here's a link to that information. It looks like 220 Celciums is about right. So if you were in Fahrenheit then that would explain the total failure of the experiment and make it worth retrying. RSVP YHOSvt. ** TNM ** I tried this a year or two back with about 30 x SID, VIC, and PLA chips out of C64's. I heated them in the oven at about 250 for 15 minutes. None of them showed any more signs of life than before I tried it, unfortunately.
Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.
On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 21:24 -0400, Pete Rittwage wrote: I did some lookup on the reflow temperatures for various solder materials because my gut told me 250 degrees is too low to do any good. Turns out this is so. 250 CELCIUS maybe, but Fahrenheit? not. https://www.google.com/search?q=melting+point+of+solder=isch=iu=1=lNlL1odJeOshrM%253A%252Cdl2_5Te6VgKpAM%252C_=1=AI4_-kRutgIaitoyNNmWoI_dbqyF1P0xmQ=X=2ahUKEwi17--3_NXjAhUK2FkKHZhiCaIQ9QEwAHoECAEQAw#imgrc=lNlL1odJeOshrM : Here's a link to that information. It looks like 220 Celciums is about right. So if you were in Fahrenheit then that would explain the total failure of the experiment and make it worth retrying. RSVP YHOSvt. ** TNM ** > > > I tried this a year or two back with about 30 x SID, VIC, and PLA > chips > out of C64's. I heated them in the oven at about 250 for 15 minutes. > None of them showed any more signs of life than before I tried it, > unfortunately. >
Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.
On 7/25/2019 1:08 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote: Does this mean that, like me scratching a bit at the package to expose enough nub of broken-off pin to get a blob of solder on to hold a new leg made of wire can theoretically be extended to shaving off the top of the package to expose the IC and then tack soldering the severed wire back onto it? The chip is DEAD what do have to loose? :) Ben.
Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.
Hi Sam On one of the projects I worked on, we had a lockup problem ( CMOS issue ). It would blow either the VCC or GND lead. We had a wire bonder in the lab. I'd remove the cap from ceramic chips and bond on a new wire. It would work fine until we sequence the power wrong and it would blow wire again. The CMOS technology guy stated they shouldn't do this but it still happened ( simulation vrs real world ). I suspect those parts that have an open lead are bonding wire failures and not silicon failures. If you were setup to install bonding wires, it is technically possible to repair such failures. In a plastic part, that might be more difficult than a ceramic package. Not all failures are bonding wire failures. Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 12:08 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them. Does this mean that, like me scratching a bit at the package to expose enough nub of broken-off pin to get a blob of solder on to hold a new leg made of wire can theoretically be extended to shaving off the top of the package to expose the IC and then tack soldering the severed wire back onto it? This would probably require some serious equipment I don't have, but sounds possible in extremity. RSVP YHOSvt. ** TNM ** Dwight said: "Message: 6 Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 05:52:31 + From: dwight To: Pete Rittwage , "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them. Message-ID: < byapr01mb5608f4c8a3860c2a7d2bc172a3...@byapr01mb5608.prod.exchangelabs.com > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "Failure of the POKEY chip were likely bonding wire failures. Voltage stress failures are not likely to self repair. I would agree, the fix is likely temporary. Many early chips used gold wire for bonding but later chips used aluminum. Which is better is always a question. The pads on the die were usually aluminum, while the package was often gold. These are acoustically bonded. One wonders if one put a capacitor on the lead with a non-lethal voltage and used such a heating method, it might be able to arc weld the wire back on. Using the method of heating might enhance the success as well. Dwight"
RE: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.
Does this mean that, like me scratching a bit at the package to expose enough nub of broken-off pin to get a blob of solder on to hold a new leg made of wire can theoretically be extended to shaving off the top of the package to expose the IC and then tack soldering the severed wire back onto it? This would probably require some serious equipment I don't have, but sounds possible in extremity. RSVP YHOSvt. ** TNM ** Dwight said: "Message: 6 Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 05:52:31 + From: dwight To: Pete Rittwage , "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them. Message-ID: < byapr01mb5608f4c8a3860c2a7d2bc172a3...@byapr01mb5608.prod.exchangelabs.com > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "Failure of the POKEY chip were likely bonding wire failures. Voltage stress failures are not likely to self repair. I would agree, the fix is likely temporary. Many early chips used gold wire for bonding but later chips used aluminum. Which is better is always a question. The pads on the die were usually aluminum, while the package was often gold. These are acoustically bonded. One wonders if one put a capacitor on the lead with a non-lethal voltage and used such a heating method, it might be able to arc weld the wire back on. Using the method of heating might enhance the success as well. Dwight"
Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.
tor 2019-07-25 klockan 05:52 + skrev dwight via cctalk: > Failure of the POKEY chip were likely bonding wire failures. Voltage > stress failures are not likely to self repair. > I would agree, the fix is likely temporary. If chip inside consumer stuff is so prone to this failure, what is the difference in working technique behind military grade things which in many cases has a shelf life between 20-30 years ?
Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.
Failure of the POKEY chip were likely bonding wire failures. Voltage stress failures are not likely to self repair. I would agree, the fix is likely temporary. Many early chips used gold wire for bonding but later chips used aluminum. Which is better is always a question. The pads on the die were usually aluminum, while the package was often gold. These are acoustically bonded. One wonders if one put a capacitor on the lead with a non-lethal voltage and used such a heating method, it might be able to arc weld the wire back on. Using the method of heating might enhance the success as well. Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Pete Rittwage via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 6:24 PM To: Jeffrey S. Worley ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them. On 2019-07-24 13:31, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote: > Yesterday evening, in the process of refurbishing five very badly > treated Atari 800 computers I had a hunch and subjected a failed Pokey > chip (Atari Part CO12294 Wikki link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POKEY > ) to high heat by way of the barrel of my soldering iron until > saliva evaporated from it in about 1 second. > > The chip, which did not work before in any of the machines now works > perfectly. > > Pokey (see wikki link) is common to all Atari 8-bit computers and > common in many Atari coinop video game systems. These chips are > becoming scarce, so much so there is a sort of replacement being > manufactured > https://hotrodarcade.com/products/pokeyone-atari-pokey-chip-replacement-for-atari-arcade-games > . > > The replacement Pokey only emulates the audio portion of the original > chip, leaving the PotKEY part unimplemented. Pokey gets its name from > Potentiometer Keyboard. It also handles the Atari SIO peripheral > signals, so without those an Atari computer cannot use standard > peripherals like serial disk drives, and other common interfaces. > Thus, for Atari computers a true Pokey is a must. > > I stumbled upon a fix for this one and wonder if I reinvented the wheel > or if this information may be of use to the group in treating other > sorts of chips. > > Reflowing is a treatment for a lot of hardware these days and generally > regarded as a hack which won't last. As modern hardware, CPU's and > video chips in particular run very hot, I can see how this might be, > but Pokey and most of the stuff we work with don't have this > environmental restriction. Most of our gear runs at 40 degrees > centigrade or lower. So I'm guessing the problem with my disused chip > was oxidation within the package and that cooking the chip a bit > cleaned things up? Any advise or observations would be appreciated. > > I tried this on another chip the same evening, an Antic. The Antic DID > work for a second or two, whereas it had before given no signs of life, > but then returned to its failed state. > > Best, > > Jeff > (Technoid Mutant) I tried this a year or two back with about 30 x SID, VIC, and PLA chips out of C64's. I heated them in the oven at about 250 for 15 minutes. None of them showed any more signs of life than before I tried it, unfortunately. -- -Pete Rittwage
Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.
On 2019-07-24 13:31, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote: Yesterday evening, in the process of refurbishing five very badly treated Atari 800 computers I had a hunch and subjected a failed Pokey chip (Atari Part CO12294 Wikki link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POKEY ) to high heat by way of the barrel of my soldering iron until saliva evaporated from it in about 1 second. The chip, which did not work before in any of the machines now works perfectly. Pokey (see wikki link) is common to all Atari 8-bit computers and common in many Atari coinop video game systems. These chips are becoming scarce, so much so there is a sort of replacement being manufactured https://hotrodarcade.com/products/pokeyone-atari-pokey-chip-replacement-for-atari-arcade-games . The replacement Pokey only emulates the audio portion of the original chip, leaving the PotKEY part unimplemented. Pokey gets its name from Potentiometer Keyboard. It also handles the Atari SIO peripheral signals, so without those an Atari computer cannot use standard peripherals like serial disk drives, and other common interfaces. Thus, for Atari computers a true Pokey is a must. I stumbled upon a fix for this one and wonder if I reinvented the wheel or if this information may be of use to the group in treating other sorts of chips. Reflowing is a treatment for a lot of hardware these days and generally regarded as a hack which won't last. As modern hardware, CPU's and video chips in particular run very hot, I can see how this might be, but Pokey and most of the stuff we work with don't have this environmental restriction. Most of our gear runs at 40 degrees centigrade or lower. So I'm guessing the problem with my disused chip was oxidation within the package and that cooking the chip a bit cleaned things up? Any advise or observations would be appreciated. I tried this on another chip the same evening, an Antic. The Antic DID work for a second or two, whereas it had before given no signs of life, but then returned to its failed state. Best, Jeff (Technoid Mutant) I tried this a year or two back with about 30 x SID, VIC, and PLA chips out of C64's. I heated them in the oven at about 250 for 15 minutes. None of them showed any more signs of life than before I tried it, unfortunately. -- -Pete Rittwage
RE: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.
Brent Hilpert wrote: On 2019-Jul-24, at 10:31 AM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote: >> Yesterday evening, in the process of refurbishing five very badly >> treated Atari 800 computers I had a hunch and subjected a failed Pokey >> chip (Atari Part CO12294 Wikki link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POKEY >>) to high heat by way of the barrel of my soldering iron until >> saliva evaporated from it in about 1 second. >> >> The chip, which did not work before in any of the machines now works >> perfectly. > > cross your fingers that it stays working. I performed a fix like this some > years ago with a ca.1970 chip from an SSI logic family from Sony. However, > it reverted to its failed state some weeks or months after the heat > application, long after (obviously) the chip had returned to ambient > temperature. So it wasn't merely that the chip was temperature sensitive, > the heat application indeed must have had made some internal alteration, > but it wasn't permanent. Probably temporarily reattached a bond wire which "re-broke" after a few thermal cycles. Bill S. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.
On 2019-Jul-24, at 10:31 AM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote: > Yesterday evening, in the process of refurbishing five very badly > treated Atari 800 computers I had a hunch and subjected a failed Pokey > chip (Atari Part CO12294 Wikki link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POKEY >) to high heat by way of the barrel of my soldering iron until > saliva evaporated from it in about 1 second. > > The chip, which did not work before in any of the machines now works > perfectly. > ... > I stumbled upon a fix for this one and wonder if I reinvented the wheel > or if this information may be of use to the group in treating other > sorts of chips. > > Reflowing is a treatment for a lot of hardware these days and generally > regarded as a hack which won't last. As modern hardware, CPU's and > video chips in particular run very hot, I can see how this might be, > but Pokey and most of the stuff we work with don't have this > environmental restriction. Most of our gear runs at 40 degrees > centigrade or lower. So I'm guessing the problem with my disused chip > was oxidation within the package and that cooking the chip a bit > cleaned things up? Any advise or observations would be appreciated. > > I tried this on another chip the same evening, an Antic. The Antic DID > work for a second or two, whereas it had before given no signs of life, > but then returned to its failed state. .. cross your fingers that it stays working. I performed a fix like this some years ago with a ca.1970 chip from an SSI logic family from Sony. However, it reverted to its failed state some weeks or months after the heat application, long after (obviously) the chip had returned to ambient temperature. So it wasn't merely that the chip was temperature sensitive, the heat application indeed must have had made some internal alteration, but it wasn't permanent.
Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.
Yesterday evening, in the process of refurbishing five very badly treated Atari 800 computers I had a hunch and subjected a failed Pokey chip (Atari Part CO12294 Wikki link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POKEY ) to high heat by way of the barrel of my soldering iron until saliva evaporated from it in about 1 second. The chip, which did not work before in any of the machines now works perfectly. Pokey (see wikki link) is common to all Atari 8-bit computers and common in many Atari coinop video game systems. These chips are becoming scarce, so much so there is a sort of replacement being manufactured https://hotrodarcade.com/products/pokeyone-atari-pokey-chip-replacement-for-atari-arcade-games . The replacement Pokey only emulates the audio portion of the original chip, leaving the PotKEY part unimplemented. Pokey gets its name from Potentiometer Keyboard. It also handles the Atari SIO peripheral signals, so without those an Atari computer cannot use standard peripherals like serial disk drives, and other common interfaces. Thus, for Atari computers a true Pokey is a must. I stumbled upon a fix for this one and wonder if I reinvented the wheel or if this information may be of use to the group in treating other sorts of chips. Reflowing is a treatment for a lot of hardware these days and generally regarded as a hack which won't last. As modern hardware, CPU's and video chips in particular run very hot, I can see how this might be, but Pokey and most of the stuff we work with don't have this environmental restriction. Most of our gear runs at 40 degrees centigrade or lower. So I'm guessing the problem with my disused chip was oxidation within the package and that cooking the chip a bit cleaned things up? Any advise or observations would be appreciated. I tried this on another chip the same evening, an Antic. The Antic DID work for a second or two, whereas it had before given no signs of life, but then returned to its failed state. Best, Jeff (Technoid Mutant)
