Re: TRS-80 Model 1 Expansion Interface question?
On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 6:46 PM, Win Heagy via cctech wrote: > The expansion interface hardware manual indicates > it is an FD1771B-01, but the service manual indicates a couple > possibilitiesFD1771 A/B -01 -11. Any considerations to look for here? > All other things being equal, I'd use the FD1771x-01, with x being either A or B. The A vs. B is just whether the chip is in a ceramic (A) or plastic (B) package. This makes no difference in the TRS-80 EI. The numeric suffix indicates functional or specification differences. The -01 suffix is rated for operation at 1 MHz or 2 MHz, which is fine for the TRS-80 EI, which runs it at 1 MHz (as required for 5.25-inch standard-density floppies). The -02 suffix is rated for operation at 2 MHz only, so in principle it isn't guaranteed to work in the TRS-80 EI, but in practice it should work fine. The -11 suffix is for a part that has an internal substrate bias generator, so pin 1 (Vbb) should be disconnected. This wouldn't meet spec in the TRS-80 EI without disconnecting pin 1, though it's possible that it might work OK without doing so. At 1 MHz, the available stepping rate selections for the -01 and -11 are 12, 20, and 40 ms, while for the -02 they are 12, 16, and 20 ms.
Re: TRS-80 Model 1 Expansion Interface question?
> On Mar 20, 2017, at 8:46 PM, Win Heagy via cctech > wrote: > > Is there any reason why this chip would be removed? I see a number of them > on ebay for around $25. The expansion interface hardware manual indicates > it is an FD1771B-01, but the service manual indicates a couple > possibilitiesFD1771 A/B -01 -11. Any considerations to look for here? > The EI may have had a double density board which plugs into the FDC chip socket. The FDC chip then plugs into the doubler. Without the doubler you only have single density. Original Percom or Tandy doublers are fairly rare to find today so someone may have pulled it out to sell. Ian Mavric in Australia does make reproductions though.
Re: TRS-80 Model 1 Expansion Interface question?
On Mon, 20 Mar 2017, ben via cctech wrote: Act quick before Radio Shack closes its doors forever. Radio Shack stores haven't had any of that stuff for decades. One Doubler on eBay; no 1771s
Re: TRS-80 Model 1 Expansion Interface question?
On 3/20/2017 9:43 PM, Fred Cisin via cctech wrote: On Mon, 20 Mar 2017, Win Heagy via cctech wrote: But, the FD1771 IC, for some reason, was removed from an otherwise apparently functional EI. http://imgur.com/a/3NzOh Is there any reason why this chip would be removed? I see a number of them on ebay for around $25. The expansion interface hardware manual indicates it is an FD1771B-01, but the service manual indicates a couple possibilitiesFD1771 A/B -01 -11. Any considerations to look for here? Some owners replaced the 1771 with a daughterboard that contained a 1771 plus a better data separation circuit. The 1771 included internal data separation, which WD advised not to use. "EVERYBODY" used one of those. Before selling the Expansion Interface, the previous owner might have removed the data separator and sold it separately. Some owners replaced the 1771 with a daughterboard that contained a 1771 plus a 179x, called a "Doubler". That added double density (MFM) support. The Doubler included a 1771 because the 179x was incapable of writing some of the address marks that Model 1 TRSDOS used in its disk format. "EVERYBODY" used one of those. Before selling the Expansion Interface, the previous owner might have removed the Doubler and sold it separately. Both the Data Separator and the Doubler COULD HAVE used the 1771 that was taken out, but usually came with one already installed. 1) it made for one less prying out, bending pins and reinstalling with bent pins or backwards 2) it meant that there was a known good chip going in. Some owners replaced the 1771 with an aftermarket daughterboard that contained a 1771 plus some circuitry to do 8" SSSD. Often that was accompanied by a sandwich board for the Z80 in the CPU to remap memory for CP/M, and a CP/M for it. (such as Parasitic Engineering, and Omikron Mapper) "not EVERYBODY" used one of those. Before selling the Expansion Interface, the previous owner might have removed the adapter and sold it separately. (There also existed a "remapped" CP/M for the TRS80 that would work without the hardware remapping, although in general no known commercial software worked with that setup.) In addition to the 1771, does your Expansion Interface include the "RS232 board"? A Radio Shack Computer Store manager asserted that any incompatabilities with the standard were legitimate, "because OUR RS-232 board is RADIO SHACK 232" Before selling the Expansion Interface, the previous owner might have removed the adapter and sold it separately. There were a few modifications to the EI over time. The first version had a simple straight through cable. Then they made some changes and switched to a cable with a circuit box in the middle of it. Then they made some changes and switched to a cable with a circuit box in the middle of it, plus a small second cable. Then they made some changes and switched to a simple straight through cable. Make sure that you use the appropriate cable(s) for the level of changes that were made to yours. To keep reliability, do not plug/unplug and move the CPU and the EI. If you are going to do so, then bolt both pieces to a piece of plywood. RIV-NUTS or NUTSERTS into holes drilled into the bottom of the EI and CPU. You did not HAVE TO put the power supply for the CPU into the compartment in the EI. If you do, cutting a notch in the case means that you can tuck the excess cord in there to have 3" of power cord between the EI and CPU, instead of a couple of feet going out the BACK and around to the front. The RCA TV set that Radio Shack used as a monitor had a great big empty space where the tuner used to be. Plenty of room for a disk drive, or a pair of half-height drives. Mu-metal surround was kinda important. The CPU needed a trivial modification to add lower-case. Often accompanied by adding a "Control key", and sometimes a mod to give reverse video. Remember to put glyptol on the screw after making modifications, since warranty was void if there wasn't any glyptol. Act quick before Radio Shack closes its doors forever. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com Ben. What happens to my life tube replacement guarantee now?
Re: TRS-80 Model 1 Expansion Interface question?
On Mon, 20 Mar 2017, Win Heagy via cctech wrote: But, the FD1771 IC, for some reason, was removed from an otherwise apparently functional EI. http://imgur.com/a/3NzOh Is there any reason why this chip would be removed? I see a number of them on ebay for around $25. The expansion interface hardware manual indicates it is an FD1771B-01, but the service manual indicates a couple possibilitiesFD1771 A/B -01 -11. Any considerations to look for here? Some owners replaced the 1771 with a daughterboard that contained a 1771 plus a better data separation circuit. The 1771 included internal data separation, which WD advised not to use. "EVERYBODY" used one of those. Before selling the Expansion Interface, the previous owner might have removed the data separator and sold it separately. Some owners replaced the 1771 with a daughterboard that contained a 1771 plus a 179x, called a "Doubler". That added double density (MFM) support. The Doubler included a 1771 because the 179x was incapable of writing some of the address marks that Model 1 TRSDOS used in its disk format. "EVERYBODY" used one of those. Before selling the Expansion Interface, the previous owner might have removed the Doubler and sold it separately. Both the Data Separator and the Doubler COULD HAVE used the 1771 that was taken out, but usually came with one already installed. 1) it made for one less prying out, bending pins and reinstalling with bent pins or backwards 2) it meant that there was a known good chip going in. Some owners replaced the 1771 with an aftermarket daughterboard that contained a 1771 plus some circuitry to do 8" SSSD. Often that was accompanied by a sandwich board for the Z80 in the CPU to remap memory for CP/M, and a CP/M for it. (such as Parasitic Engineering, and Omikron Mapper) "not EVERYBODY" used one of those. Before selling the Expansion Interface, the previous owner might have removed the adapter and sold it separately. (There also existed a "remapped" CP/M for the TRS80 that would work without the hardware remapping, although in general no known commercial software worked with that setup.) In addition to the 1771, does your Expansion Interface include the "RS232 board"? A Radio Shack Computer Store manager asserted that any incompatabilities with the standard were legitimate, "because OUR RS-232 board is RADIO SHACK 232" Before selling the Expansion Interface, the previous owner might have removed the adapter and sold it separately. There were a few modifications to the EI over time. The first version had a simple straight through cable. Then they made some changes and switched to a cable with a circuit box in the middle of it. Then they made some changes and switched to a cable with a circuit box in the middle of it, plus a small second cable. Then they made some changes and switched to a simple straight through cable. Make sure that you use the appropriate cable(s) for the level of changes that were made to yours. To keep reliability, do not plug/unplug and move the CPU and the EI. If you are going to do so, then bolt both pieces to a piece of plywood. RIV-NUTS or NUTSERTS into holes drilled into the bottom of the EI and CPU. You did not HAVE TO put the power supply for the CPU into the compartment in the EI. If you do, cutting a notch in the case means that you can tuck the excess cord in there to have 3" of power cord between the EI and CPU, instead of a couple of feet going out the BACK and around to the front. The RCA TV set that Radio Shack used as a monitor had a great big empty space where the tuner used to be. Plenty of room for a disk drive, or a pair of half-height drives. Mu-metal surround was kinda important. The CPU needed a trivial modification to add lower-case. Often accompanied by adding a "Control key", and sometimes a mod to give reverse video. Remember to put glyptol on the screw after making modifications, since warranty was void if there wasn't any glyptol. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
TRS-80 Model 1 Expansion Interface question?
I have a clean, and somewhat functional expansion interface that I just tested over the weekend. Without the EI connected, the model 1 reports ~16K RAM and with the EI the model 1 reports ~48K, so the RAM seems OK. But, the FD1771 IC, for some reason, was removed from an otherwise apparently functional EI. http://imgur.com/a/3NzOh Is there any reason why this chip would be removed? I see a number of them on ebay for around $25. The expansion interface hardware manual indicates it is an FD1771B-01, but the service manual indicates a couple possibilitiesFD1771 A/B -01 -11. Any considerations to look for here? Thanks, Win
