Re: [CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
Trying to keep the thread alive ... On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Jim Perrin jper...@centos.org wrote: On 01/23/2014 03:03 PM, Paul Mansfield wrote: given that getting people to write documentation at all requires a lot of effort, putting so many impediments in their way doesn't make sense. This is part of what we're hoping to address. I had a few things I wanted to add to the wiki, by the time I managed to get a working login I'd mostly forgotten what it was and lost all motivation. This is why. You're not the only one to say this. What can / should be done to mitigate the issue? The issue is that, when an action from the Admin team [1] is required, users do not always get a timely response. I understand why moderation is needed for wiki access but am sure the many impediments can be reduced. From the past examples I see Ralph (the wiki master) has been in charge of most actions. But then he has $dayjob and also takes vacations (can he really?). There does not seem to be a mechanism to spread his role to other admins. Would it be plausible to set up a Wiki management group that consists of CentOS admins and contributors? I'd like to use the CentOS forums as an example. The new site now requires that every new user's post be approved by a moderator. New posts come in 24/7 but, with multiple [*ahem* diligent] moderators around the globe, most of them get taken care of without much delay. In any event, I'd like to know what is being planned to prevent loss of potential wiki contributors. Akemi [1] http://wiki.centos.org/AdminGroup ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
On 01/26/2014 04:19 PM, Akemi Yagi wrote: Would it be plausible to set up a Wiki management group that consists of CentOS admins and contributors? I'd like to use the CentOS forums as an example. The new site now requires that every new user's post be approved by a moderator. New posts come in 24/7 but, with multiple [*ahem* diligent] moderators around the globe, most of them get taken care of without much delay. Isnt the Editorial Group meant to address this specifically ? -- Karanbir Singh +44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
On 26 January 2014 20:32, Karanbir Singh mail-li...@karan.org wrote: On 01/26/2014 04:19 PM, Akemi Yagi wrote: Would it be plausible to set up a Wiki management group that consists of CentOS admins and contributors? I'd like to use the CentOS forums as an example. The new site now requires that every new user's post be approved by a moderator. New posts come in 24/7 but, with multiple [*ahem* diligent] moderators around the globe, most of them get taken care of without much delay. Isnt the Editorial Group meant to address this specifically ? -- Karanbir Singh In theory, yes. In practice we can't -- due to the problem of lack of privilege for editing ACL lines. Alan. ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
On 01/26/2014 08:44 PM, Alan Bartlett wrote: Isnt the Editorial Group meant to address this specifically ? In theory, yes. In practice we can't -- due to the problem of lack of privilege for editing ACL lines. moin has cascading acl's - so we could have a setup where people with aCL's on a page are able to add more acl's to that page itself and sub-pages; Given enough people subscribed to all content changes ( the editgroup ? ) that might be an easier way to solve the same problem ( and perhaps more predictable ). - KB -- Karanbir Singh +44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
[CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
Hi folks, I'd like to request access to the CentOS wiki for the purpose of adding CloudStack-related CentOS documentation. username: DavidNalley Thanks, --David ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 01/23/2014 10:35 AM, David Nalley wrote: Hi folks, I'd like to request access to the CentOS wiki for the purpose of adding CloudStack-related CentOS documentation. username: DavidNalley Thanks, This all fits in to the overall Documentation SIG discussion. The wiki is one of the Docs SIG committer locations - it's where a writer gets to contribute directly. However, the other SIGs need to write to the wiki as well. How about if we consider one of our criteria for giving wiki access to be, Is a committer in another SIG? I'd also think is a contributor in another SIG to possibly be good enough, too. A contributor is someone who is doing work that is being checked and approved by a committer. I would think the barrier to being able to write to the wiki should be lower than for code. But we do want to have standards. Speaking of which, do we have any writing standards for using the wiki? Anything to point new contributors to? Such as: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Editing Cheers - Karsten - -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade.^\CentOS Engineering Manager http://TheOpenSourceWay.org\ http://community.redhat.com @quaid (identi.ca/twitter/IRC) \v' gpg: AD0E0C41 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlLhZYoACgkQ2ZIOBq0ODEFEmwCfWyQGlXl7Vii7xlGNO7Trgq1y bC0AoIpliSscKIlWuHjIhxBNcOhQFMSg =35dn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Karsten Wade kw...@redhat.com wrote: Speaking of which, do we have any writing standards for using the wiki? Anything to point new contributors to? Such as: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Editing If it is about syntax, I know of this wiki page: http://wiki.centos.org/SyntaxReference Akemi ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
Karsten Wade kw...@redhat.com wrote: I'd also think is a contributor in another SIG to possibly be good enough, too. A contributor is someone who is doing work that is being checked and approved by a committer. I would think the barrier to being able to write to the wiki should be lower than for code. But we do want to have standards. What's all this about SIGs, contributors, and committers? The CentOS Wiki didn't use to work that way. Yves Bellefeuille ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
[CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 23 Jan 2014, Yves Bellefeuille wrote: Karsten Wade kw...@redhat.com wrote: snip What's all this about SIGs, contributors, and committers? The CentOS Wiki didn't use to work that way. This is part of a piece I sent this to Karsten earlier today: Karsten: Speaking of which, do we have any writing standards for using the wiki? Anything to point new contributors to? Historically, to get rights on the CentOS wiki, one had to have a: - have subscribed to the -docs ML - registered with CamelCase wikiname - optionally set up a homepage (doing so required asking for limited rights to do so in that sub-space on the -docs ML) - discuss on the -docs ML, the intended content, optionally putting a preview below the personal homepage in the hierarchy - one point being it was not interesting to simply parrot RH doco, or replicate content elsewhere, but rather to document deviations between CentOS and RHEL as there were some deviation by design or by necessity: updater driven -- early days yum not RHN, artwork, license matters -- extract ends -- - -- Russ herrold -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlLhgTUACgkQMRh1QZtklkQWZgCfThzmJazc5+Wf37EBlefdxMUM rNYAoIRPeIR1zXoOuBH+ilCCrCZ2f4Yu =HDpP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
Historically, to get rights on the CentOS wiki, one had to have a: given that getting people to write documentation at all requires a lot of effort, putting so many impediments in their way doesn't make sense. I had a few things I wanted to add to the wiki, by the time I managed to get a working login I'd mostly forgotten what it was and lost all motivation. Looking at the change log suggests the wiki isn't overloaded with changes. Other distros seem to have much more thriving communities. Maybe Centos simply doesn't feel the need? ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
On 01/23/2014 03:03 PM, Paul Mansfield wrote: Historically, to get rights on the CentOS wiki, one had to have a: given that getting people to write documentation at all requires a lot of effort, putting so many impediments in their way doesn't make sense. This is part of what we're hoping to address. I had a few things I wanted to add to the wiki, by the time I managed to get a working login I'd mostly forgotten what it was and lost all motivation. This is why. You're not the only one to say this. Looking at the change log suggests the wiki isn't overloaded with changes. Other distros seem to have much more thriving communities. Maybe Centos simply doesn't feel the need? Traditionally, there wasn't much need. Most things came top-down, and we spent more time focusing on getting the base builds right. Now we're adding to that focus and trying to get more folks involved, rather than just being one-way consumers. -- Jim Perrin The CentOS Project | http://www.centos.org twitter: @BitIntegrity | GPG Key: FA09AD77 ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
R P Herrold wrote: Historically, to get rights on the CentOS wiki, one had to have a: - have subscribed to the -docs ML - registered with CamelCase wikiname - optionally set up a homepage (doing so required asking for limited rights to do so in that sub-space on the -docs ML) - discuss on the -docs ML, the intended content, optionally putting a preview below the personal homepage in the hierarchy - one point being it was not interesting to simply parrot RH doco, or replicate content elsewhere, but rather to document deviations between CentOS and RHEL as there were some deviation by design or by necessity: updater driven -- early days yum not RHN, artwork, license matters I was mostly taken aback that the new CentOS Engineering Manager seemed to be completely changing the way the Wiki works. I suppose Karsten simply wasn't aware of what was done in the past. Yves Bellefeuille ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 01/23/2014 01:17 PM, Yves Bellefeuille wrote: R P Herrold wrote: Historically, to get rights on the CentOS wiki, one had to have a: - have subscribed to the -docs ML - registered with CamelCase wikiname - optionally set up a homepage (doing so required asking for limited rights to do so in that sub-space on the -docs ML) - discuss on the -docs ML, the intended content, optionally putting a preview below the personal homepage in the hierarchy - one point being it was not interesting to simply parrot RH doco, or replicate content elsewhere, but rather to document deviations between CentOS and RHEL as there were some deviation by design or by necessity: updater driven -- early days yum not RHN, artwork, license matters I was mostly taken aback that the new CentOS Engineering Manager seemed to be completely changing the way the Wiki works. I suppose Karsten simply wasn't aware of what was done in the past. Yeah, I've been all over the place in the last few weeks, and I neglected to introduce myself here. I'm sorry about that, it wasn't an oversight, it was a necessity I hope you appreciate. Note that the title in my .sig is explained in my wiki page. http://wiki.centos.org/KarstenWade Where it comes to centos-docs I'm just a newbie too. However, I'm a newbie with a ton of experience working documentation for two Linux distros (Fedora and RHEL), I've got opinions on things, and I'm sharing those opinions here. I'll try really hard not to come across as a know-it-all ... I'm used to be in a directive position around documentation, I'll try to remember I'm the new guy here. People working in centos-docs already have the history and the merit to guide the work of people like me. I'm just trying to figure out how it is all supposed to work, and pointing at existing examples, experience, and expertise. That said, I was kindly given access to write to the wiki by Jim Perrin as a way to expedite some work a few weeks ago ... and I knew I was skipping whatever process is normally conducted here ... for that I apologize. I knew it was wrong as I was doing it, but it happened by necessity literally 15 minutes before I was able to come to this list and do it the right way. If you know my work record in free/open source software communities, it's not as one who tries to work around meritocratic processes. I'll make up for this immediately[1] by writing a new email to this list as Russ has outlined above. I'll also resist making any changes to the wiki until I have a chance to better understand how things work around here. (Which goes back to my questions that started things on this list, how does it work to get wiki edit access, what are the norms there, etc. I definitely am not going to try importing how-to-do-stuff from my other experience without consensus from this group.) - - Karsten [1] Immediate as in, when I'm done with the hour bike ride I have to make. :) - -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade.^\CentOS Engineering Manager http://TheOpenSourceWay.org\ http://community.redhat.com @quaid (identi.ca/twitter/IRC) \v' gpg: AD0E0C41 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlLho9oACgkQ2ZIOBq0ODEH6wACgljev/sNPOAT+VIAQTiaQwwVj GFMAoLQ5m/oixawjTIHLxl3jAJWJh1pD =ZMLI -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 01/23/2014 12:53 PM, R P Herrold wrote: This is part of a piece I sent this to Karsten earlier today: Karsten: Speaking of which, do we have any writing standards for using the wiki? Anything to point new contributors to? Historically, to get rights on the CentOS wiki, one had to have a: - have subscribed to the -docs ML - registered with CamelCase wikiname - optionally set up a homepage (doing so required asking for limited rights to do so in that sub-space on the -docs ML) - discuss on the -docs ML, the intended content, optionally putting a preview below the personal homepage in the hierarchy - one point being it was not interesting to simply parrot RH doco, or replicate content elsewhere, but rather to document deviations between CentOS and RHEL as there were some deviation by design or by necessity: updater driven -- early days yum not RHN, artwork, license matters http://wiki.centos.org/Contribute#head-42b3d8e26400a106851a61aebe5c2cca54dd79e5 Mea culpa, I should have remembered to search first. Also, I now recall having read that page. I'll follow that process, and am glad to have my edit rights restricted theoretically or actually until I gain merit under the current process. I'll note this paragraph on that page: As said: We're really sorry that we have to do it this way but we hope to change the process in the future so it becomes easier to contribute to the Wiki. I've been through these pains with wiki editing before, and spamming, and all the problems of people posting content they shouldn't. I would like to start working on a better process here. Can the folks with the understanding and history help? To put it another way, if we're waiting for someone to spend 5 to 10 hours or more a week making it easier to get wiki editors and writers, I'd like to do that. Please do me the favor of ignoring my email address and .sig in that request -- it is literally me asking if I have your permission to improve things as you've indicated you want. - - Karsten - -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade.^\CentOS Engineering Manager http://TheOpenSourceWay.org\ http://community.redhat.com @quaid (identi.ca/twitter/IRC) \v' gpg: AD0E0C41 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlLhpWgACgkQ2ZIOBq0ODEGmvgCeKHyQCbx1UIUg5nOn+E+pMigs n6MAn1iwYuxfVoPoGBA9qV2v7ozhYRaY =aoRE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
On 01/23/2014 06:35 PM, David Nalley wrote: Hi folks, I'd like to request access to the CentOS wiki for the purpose of adding CloudStack-related CentOS documentation. Done, you should have edit rights to your homepage at /DavidNalley and to the CloudStack rsource page at /Cloud/CloudStack I've also added you to the Cloud Instance SIG page at : http://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/CloudInstance As we get the CloudInfra SIG bootstrapped, we can setup a CloudGroup and just share a single ACL across all the Cloud specific areas. -- Karanbir Singh +44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Request for access to wiki
On 01/23/2014 08:41 PM, Yves Bellefeuille wrote: Karsten Wade kw...@redhat.com wrote: I'd also think is a contributor in another SIG to possibly be good enough, too. A contributor is someone who is doing work that is being checked and approved by a committer. I would think the barrier to being able to write to the wiki should be lower than for code. But we do want to have standards. What's all this about SIGs, contributors, and committers? The CentOS Wiki didn't use to work that way. The contribution policy is defined up here : http://wiki.centos.org/Contribute#head-42b3d8e26400a106851a61aebe5c2cca54dd79e5 its not changing. If it changes, the reasons and what is changing will be discussed here to make sure its in line with what the existing contributors expect! Opening up the wiki to a wider audience has always been an aim, but key to being able to do that rests in a technically competent editorial group and a greylisting capable content pipeline. Let me know if that clears up the confusion. -- Karanbir Singh +44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
