Re: [CentOS-virt] SPICE Benchmark

[Scott Dowdle]

Greetings,

- Original Message -
> Google's NX implementation is called 'neatx':
> http://code.google.com/p/neatx/

Thanks.  I was looking for that.

> NX the protocol is open already.. :)

It is for all versions before 4.0.  4.0 will be completely closed.

TYL,
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Re: [CentOS-virt] SPICE Benchmark

[Pasi Kärkkäinen]

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:02:49PM -0500, Scott Dowdle wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> - Original Message -
> > So as I understand it correctly, this whole SPICE thing is just
> > something like VNC on steroids? Why can't we have this SPICE thing
> > work on physical hosts as well?
> 
> SPICE was specifically designed to be a display protocol for a KVM virtual 
> machine.  Most remote display protocols have two pieces... a client and a 
> server.  SPICE has three... a client, a server, and a qxl device driver 
> provided inside of a KVM virtual machine.  It is probably possible to take 
> the SPICE protocol and adapt it to work without the qxl device driver... but 
> no one has done that yet.
> 
> The best experience I've seen for a remote Linux box was provided by No 
> Machine's NX protocol.  FreeNX comes from NX but it appears FreeNX has 
> stalled.  Google created some project, I forget the name, forked from FreeNX 
> I believe.  No Machine is working on version 4.0 of NX and supposedly will be 
> releasing a beta in the not too distant future.  Some time ago they posted a 
> lot of information about NX 4.0 on their website and it seems to rival SPICE 
> to a certain degree... but that remains to be seen.
> 

Google's NX implementation is called 'neatx': http://code.google.com/p/neatx/

> What I'd like to see happen would be for SPICE to be adapted to a general 
> purpose remote display protocol or perhap Red Hat could buy No Machine and 
> open source that protocol too. :)
> 

NX the protocol is open already.. :) 

Nomachine's NX server product is not..

-- Pasi

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Re: [CentOS-virt] SPICE Benchmark

[Scott Dowdle]

Greetings,

- Original Message -
> The description above is enough to start SPICE and see it in action on
> Fedora 14. You have (a) Fedora host with KVM, qemu, spice-server, (b)
> VM with any OS (Fedora / CentOS / Windows - at your choice) on this
> host and (c) Fedora client with spice-client.
> 
> You launch on host the VM using qemu directly as described above.
> After it you can connect from Fedora client as described above. That's
> it. Everything just works.
> 
> qxl drivers on VM are nice to have but not mandatory - you can see
> SPICE in action without it. For details you can refer to
> http://spice-space.org/docs/spice_user_manual.pdf

Ok, with some additional effort 
(http://www.montanalinux.org/spice-for-a-spin.html) I got SPICE working 
properly on a Fedora 14 Host with a Fedora 14 virtual machine.  I hope to make 
a video sometime tomorrow so folks can see how well it works before they get it 
going for themselves.

Next task is to get it working with RHEL6.0 and then CentOS 5.5... and 
eventually CentOS 6.0.

TYL,
-- 
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704 Church Street
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Re: [CentOS-virt] SPICE Benchmark

[Scott Dowdle]

Greetings,

- Original Message -
> So as I understand it correctly, this whole SPICE thing is just
> something like VNC on steroids? Why can't we have this SPICE thing
> work on physical hosts as well?

SPICE was specifically designed to be a display protocol for a KVM virtual 
machine.  Most remote display protocols have two pieces... a client and a 
server.  SPICE has three... a client, a server, and a qxl device driver 
provided inside of a KVM virtual machine.  It is probably possible to take the 
SPICE protocol and adapt it to work without the qxl device driver... but no one 
has done that yet.

The best experience I've seen for a remote Linux box was provided by No 
Machine's NX protocol.  FreeNX comes from NX but it appears FreeNX has stalled. 
 Google created some project, I forget the name, forked from FreeNX I believe.  
No Machine is working on version 4.0 of NX and supposedly will be releasing a 
beta in the not too distant future.  Some time ago they posted a lot of 
information about NX 4.0 on their website and it seems to rival SPICE to a 
certain degree... but that remains to be seen.

What I'd like to see happen would be for SPICE to be adapted to a general 
purpose remote display protocol or perhap Red Hat could buy No Machine and open 
source that protocol too. :)

TYL,
-- 
Scott Dowdle
704 Church Street
Belgrade, MT 59714
(406)388-0827 [home]
(406)994-3931 [work]
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Re: [CentOS-virt] SPICE Benchmark

[Sigbjorn Lie]

The SPICE protocol is implemented as a guest graphics adapter of QEMU.
In other words, it's made for virtual desktops running under QEMU/KVM.
That's why it does not work directly on a physical machine.


Siggi



On Wed, 2010-11-17 at 19:37 +0100, RedShift wrote:
> On 11/16/10 21:28, Alexey Vasyukov wrote:
> > Hello again.
> >
> > Unfortunatelly we do not have that much materials in English. (But if you 
> > can read Russian - welcome to http://www.ossportal.ru/technologies/rhev. 
> > :-) )
> >
> > If you want just to see SPICE in action it is not hard. You need qemu with 
> > SPICE support on server and SPICE client on client.
> >
> > You need to start qemu on server with additional options:
> > -spice port=,disable-ticketing  - use this one if you do not need 
> > password protection
> > OR
> > -spice port=,password= - if you need to protect connection
> >
> > After it you can connect from client using
> > spicec -h  -p 
> >
> > Additional options for compression, encryption, etc are described in qemu 
> > man page.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Alexey
> >
> 
> So as I understand it correctly, this whole SPICE thing is just something 
> like VNC on steroids? Why can't we have this SPICE thing work on physical 
> hosts as well?
> 
> 
> Glenn



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Re: [CentOS-virt] SPICE Benchmark

[RedShift]

On 11/16/10 21:28, Alexey Vasyukov wrote:
> Hello again.
>
> Unfortunatelly we do not have that much materials in English. (But if you can 
> read Russian - welcome to http://www.ossportal.ru/technologies/rhev. :-) )
>
> If you want just to see SPICE in action it is not hard. You need qemu with 
> SPICE support on server and SPICE client on client.
>
> You need to start qemu on server with additional options:
> -spice port=,disable-ticketing  - use this one if you do not need 
> password protection
> OR
> -spice port=,password= - if you need to protect connection
>
> After it you can connect from client using
> spicec -h  -p 
>
> Additional options for compression, encryption, etc are described in qemu man 
> page.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Alexey
>

So as I understand it correctly, this whole SPICE thing is just something like 
VNC on steroids? Why can't we have this SPICE thing work on physical hosts as 
well?


Glenn
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Re: [CentOS-virt] SPICE Benchmark

[Alexey Vasyukov]

2010/11/17 Scott Dowdle 

> Greetings,
>
> - Original Message -
> > If you want just to see SPICE in action it is not hard. You need qemu
> > with SPICE support on server and SPICE client on client.
> >
> > You need to start qemu on server with additional options:
> > -spice port=,disable-ticketing - use this one if you do not need
> > password protection
> > OR
> > -spice port=,password= - if you need to protect
> > connection
> >
> > After it you can connect from client using
> > spicec -h  -p 
>
> That isn't quite all there is to it.
>
> What about installing the xorg-x11-drv-qxl package in the guest VM and
> configuring it in xorg.conf?  How exactly is that done?  Also I believe
> spice-server needs to be running on the VM host.  I'm kinda going by Fedora
> 14's SPICE feature page (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Spice) as
> well as a CentOS related one (http://www.geekgoth.de/tag/centos/).
>
> Are all the packages one needs to get SPICE going on the VM host included
> in CentOS 5.5?  What packages are those?  Are there any steps required for
> inside of the VM?
>
> Simply having the right qemu-kvm and starting up the VM with the -spice
> flag isn't all there is to it.  What many of us need are step by step
> instructions.
>
> TYL,
> --
> Scott Dowdle
> 704 Church Street
> Belgrade, MT 59714
> (406)388-0827 [home]
> (406)994-3931 [work]
>


Hello Scott.

The description above is enough to start SPICE and see it in action on
Fedora 14. You have (a) Fedora host with KVM, qemu, spice-server, (b) VM
with any OS (Fedora / CentOS / Windows - at your choice) on this host and
(c) Fedora client with spice-client.

You launch on host the VM using qemu directly as described above. After it
you can connect from Fedora client as described above. That's it. Everything
just works.

qxl drivers on VM are nice to have but not mandatory - you can see SPICE in
action without it. For details you can refer to
http://spice-space.org/docs/spice_user_manual.pdf


Cheers,
Alexey
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Re: [CentOS-virt] SPICE Benchmark

[Scott Dowdle]

Greetings,

- Original Message -
> If you want just to see SPICE in action it is not hard. You need qemu
> with SPICE support on server and SPICE client on client.
> 
> You need to start qemu on server with additional options:
> -spice port=,disable-ticketing - use this one if you do not need
> password protection
> OR
> -spice port=,password= - if you need to protect
> connection
> 
> After it you can connect from client using
> spicec -h  -p 

That isn't quite all there is to it.

What about installing the xorg-x11-drv-qxl package in the guest VM and 
configuring it in xorg.conf?  How exactly is that done?  Also I believe 
spice-server needs to be running on the VM host.  I'm kinda going by Fedora 
14's SPICE feature page (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Spice) as well 
as a CentOS related one (http://www.geekgoth.de/tag/centos/).

Are all the packages one needs to get SPICE going on the VM host included in 
CentOS 5.5?  What packages are those?  Are there any steps required for inside 
of the VM?

Simply having the right qemu-kvm and starting up the VM with the -spice flag 
isn't all there is to it.  What many of us need are step by step instructions.

TYL,
-- 
Scott Dowdle
704 Church Street
Belgrade, MT 59714
(406)388-0827 [home]
(406)994-3931 [work]
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Re: [CentOS-virt] SPICE Benchmark

[Alexey Vasyukov]

Hello again.

Unfortunatelly we do not have that much materials in English. (But if you
can read Russian - welcome to http://www.ossportal.ru/technologies/rhev. :-)
)

If you want just to see SPICE in action it is not hard. You need qemu with
SPICE support on server and SPICE client on client.

You need to start qemu on server with additional options:
-spice port=,disable-ticketing  - use this one if you do not need
password protection
   OR
-spice port=,password= - if you need to protect connection

After it you can connect from client using
spicec -h  -p 

Additional options for compression, encryption, etc are described in qemu
man page.


Best regards,
Alexey


2010/11/16 Scott Dowdle 

> Greetings,
>
> - Original Message -
> > I don’t suppose you have any websites you would recommend that shows
> > how to install and use spice?
>
> I second that question.  While I've found instructions here and there, and
> have even given Fedora 14 a try as well... the processes is very manual and
> I have yet to find a very detailed set of instructions for getting SPICE
> going.
>
> I understand that the benchmark paper used RHEV for Desktops... which I
> assume does all of the work for you... but what about us folks who are using
> RHEL 5.5, RHEL 6, and/or Fedora 14.  All of them come with KVM and SPICE
> packages but we need some detailed instructions on setting it up and making
> it work.
>
> Thanks in advance for any consideration,
> --
> Scott Dowdle
> 704 Church Street
> Belgrade, MT 59714
> (406)388-0827 [home]
> (406)994-3931 [work]
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Re: [CentOS-virt] SPICE Benchmark

[Alexey Vasyukov]

Real thanks go to Mikhail Kulemin and Pavel Zhukov who did benchmarks. )


2010/11/16 Ben M. 

> Same here. Thank you very much Alexey for sharing this.
>
> Tom Bishop wrote:
> > Very Nice...Keep us up to date on future findings, very interesting
> > readThanks.
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 11:09 AM, Alexey Vasyukov  > > wrote:
> >
> > Hi folks.
> >
> > We finally finished our work on benchmarking SPICE and would like to
> > share the results.
> >
> > Detailed report in English:
> >
> http://www.bureausolomatina.ru/sites/default/files/SPICE%20Benchmark%20-%202010-11-16.pdf
> >
> > The report provides benchmark results of SPICE network load for
> > different types of workload. SPICE operation on limited low-speed
> > network connection was also tested. The results were compared with
> > similar tests for RDP.
> >
> > Testing was based on SPICE version 0.4.3. This version is not the
> > latest one but it is used currently in RHEV-D 2.2 and also in RHEL6.
> > So, we guess, the results are pretty useful.
> >
> > We are going to test SPICE 0.6 in nearest future because it has very
> > interesting WAN improvements. So, we welcome any comments, critics
> > or advices.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Alexey Vasyukov
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
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Re: [CentOS-virt] SPICE Benchmark

[Scott Dowdle]

Greetings,

- Original Message -
> I don’t suppose you have any websites you would recommend that shows
> how to install and use spice?

I second that question.  While I've found instructions here and there, and have 
even given Fedora 14 a try as well... the processes is very manual and I have 
yet to find a very detailed set of instructions for getting SPICE going.

I understand that the benchmark paper used RHEV for Desktops... which I assume 
does all of the work for you... but what about us folks who are using RHEL 5.5, 
RHEL 6, and/or Fedora 14.  All of them come with KVM and SPICE packages but we 
need some detailed instructions on setting it up and making it work.

Thanks in advance for any consideration,
-- 
Scott Dowdle
704 Church Street
Belgrade, MT 59714
(406)388-0827 [home]
(406)994-3931 [work]
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Re: [CentOS-virt] SPICE Benchmark

[compdoc]

I don't suppose you have any websites you would recommend that shows how to
install and use spice?

 

Thanks..

 

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Re: [CentOS-virt] SPICE Benchmark

[Ben M.]

Same here. Thank you very much Alexey for sharing this.

Tom Bishop wrote:
> Very Nice...Keep us up to date on future findings, very interesting 
> readThanks.
> 
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 11:09 AM, Alexey Vasyukov  > wrote:
> 
> Hi folks.
> 
> We finally finished our work on benchmarking SPICE and would like to
> share the results.
> 
> Detailed report in English:
> 
> http://www.bureausolomatina.ru/sites/default/files/SPICE%20Benchmark%20-%202010-11-16.pdf
> 
> The report provides benchmark results of SPICE network load for
> different types of workload. SPICE operation on limited low-speed
> network connection was also tested. The results were compared with
> similar tests for RDP.
> 
> Testing was based on SPICE version 0.4.3. This version is not the
> latest one but it is used currently in RHEV-D 2.2 and also in RHEL6.
> So, we guess, the results are pretty useful.
> 
> We are going to test SPICE 0.6 in nearest future because it has very
> interesting WAN improvements. So, we welcome any comments, critics
> or advices.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Alexey Vasyukov
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [CentOS-virt] SPICE Benchmark

[Tom Bishop]

Very Nice...Keep us up to date on future findings, very interesting
readThanks.

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 11:09 AM, Alexey Vasyukov wrote:

> Hi folks.
>
> We finally finished our work on benchmarking SPICE and would like to share
> the results.
>
> Detailed report in English:
> http://www.bureausolomatina.ru/sites/default/files/SPICE%20Benchmark%20-%202010-11-16.pdf
>
> The report provides benchmark results of SPICE network load for different
> types of workload. SPICE operation on limited low-speed network connection
> was also tested. The results were compared with similar tests for RDP.
>
> Testing was based on SPICE version 0.4.3. This version is not the latest
> one but it is used currently in RHEV-D 2.2 and also in RHEL6. So, we guess,
> the results are pretty useful.
>
> We are going to test SPICE 0.6 in nearest future because it has very
> interesting WAN improvements. So, we welcome any comments, critics or
> advices.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Alexey Vasyukov
>
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