Re: [CODE4LIB] Zotero under attack
If Zotero is slurping up these Endnote-created .ens files without users even knowing about it, that would be one thing. But if .ens files can be created by many people, and if users can use Zotero to import any of these .ens files, and if users _choose_ to use Zotero to import Endnote-created .ens files, in violation of their EndNotes licesnes... that might be a license violation and a legal culpability on the users part, but is there any legal culpability on Zotero's part? EndNote, according to that Press Release, is claiming that Zotero is not allowed to import _any_ .ens files, that importing .ens files violates EndNote's intellectual property because nobody else is allowed to parse the file format. Now, as I understand it, there is absolutely no legal prohibition on reverse engineering anything---the thing may be protected by patent or copyright and you may not be able to use it even if you do reverse engineer it. But there's nothing illegal about reverse engineering it. Unless perhaps you've signed a contract saying you wouldn't (did George Mason? Perhaps, if they have an EndNote license). I hope George Mason U is willing to stand up for Zotero. It's popular enough that hopefully they will. None of these legal issues are clear, but EndNote certainly isn't _obviously_ in the right, and my guess would be they would not win any lawsuit. But with most of our employers, historically, being able to _win_ a lawsuit isn't needed to get our employers to back down, the threat alone is sufficient. Jonathan Peter Murray wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sep 28, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Reese, Terry wrote: This seems like a real grey area. I can see Thomson Scientific putting up a fuss when using ENS files generated by the creator of EndNote. But ENS files can -- and have -- be created by just about anyone (librarians, journal publishers, researchers) and published on the open web. (As the original author of the quoted section above, please replace can -- and have -- be created with can -- and have -- been created.) I'm not sure that's what they are saying. Endnote does come with ens files that they create (I believe, that was the case the last time I looked at the software), managed and provided as part of their application. They certainly can claim rights to those (this isn't really a gray area) -- and unless the Zotero software is able to determine user generated files from files distributed as part of the Endnote application, then it could be problematic. Agreed -- if Thomson Scientific created the ENS style file in question, then it is their intellectual property and there are probably grounds for the lawsuit. The version of EndNote I have (circa 2005) came with a couple dozen styles, and as of now Thomson Scientific has 3,500 up on their EndNote Styles website. Even these may not be created by Thomson Scientific itself -- the notes in the Zotero enhancement ticket mention that some of the styles might be user-contributed. A quick perusal of the Zotero code that decodes the ENS file (https://www.zotero.org/trac/browser/extension/trunk/chrome/content/zotero/xpcom/enstyle.js?rev=2908#L112) would seem to show that there is nothing in the ENS file that points to who created the style. If there was some way to exclude EndNote style files created Thomson Scientific, then Zotero would probably be okay. But, then again, I'm not a lawyer... Peter - -- Peter Murrayhttp://www.pandc.org/peter/work/ Assistant Director, New Service Development tel:+1-614-728-3600;ext=338 OhioLINK: the Ohio Library and Information NetworkColumbus, Ohio The Disruptive Library Technology Jesterhttp://dltj.org/ Attrib-Noncomm-Share http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) Comment: Ask me how you can start digitally signing your email! iD8DBQFI4DJg4+t4qSfPIHIRAmyqAJ98q5NlGexU1LxBMn83126ExoTABQCfcLEB Dkipu/L0A8pMFXkSbmXPIug= =Fr7M -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Jonathan Rochkind Digital Services Software Engineer The Sheridan Libraries Johns Hopkins University 410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zotero under attack
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sep 28, 2008, at 9:55 PM, Walter Lewis wrote: I had read the original claim as we export citations accepted at 3500 journals (most of which they might have been able to accomplish with the couple dozen styles in question given the popularity of MLA, APA etc.). How much of the 3500 claim is copy/paste as distinct from fresh intellectual effort? An interesting question, and perhaps relevant given that many of the contributed citation formats posted on the net are probably cut-and- paste versions of the basic citation formats. I don't have a good answer, though... By the way, you can read extracts of the claim and find a link to the full PDF version at http://dltj.org/article/zotero-lawsuit-extracts/ Peter - -- Peter Murrayhttp://www.pandc.org/peter/work/ Assistant Director, New Service Development tel:+1-614-728-3600;ext=338 OhioLINK: the Ohio Library and Information NetworkColumbus, Ohio The Disruptive Library Technology Jesterhttp://dltj.org/ Attrib-Noncomm-Share http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) Comment: Ask me how you can start digitally signing your email! iD8DBQFI4OWM4+t4qSfPIHIRAuAZAJ91UzorHJ5a8/Sh65keA05tN5h2EgCdEbZ9 t3ERjkf8jQJqrfGAa/sBY4Y= =sSpS -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[CODE4LIB] Call for presentations: ELAG 2009, 22-24 April 2009, Bratislava
Call for presentations: New Tools of the Trade, ELAG Conference, 22 – 24 April, 2009, Bratislava, Slovakia. Web 2.0, social networking applications, blogs, wikis, RSS feeds, facetted searching, semantic linking and digital documents are just some of the new developments that are rapidly changing the systems environment in libraries and what users expect from the systems that they use. To respond to these challenges, systems librarians and developers need to re-tool: they need to discover and master new ways of developing and applying informatics to solve information problems. The ELAG 2009 Conference is calling for presentations on new tools including: • innovative software, applications and environments • emerging formats, protocols and standards or new ways of applying existing standards • new procedures and techniques Place: Bratislava, Slovakia Host: University Library of Bratislava, (Univerzitná knižnica v Bratislave) Dates: 22 - 24 April, 2009 Deadline for submissions: 24 November, 2008 Address for submission: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Further Information is available on the 2008 conference website at http://library.wur.nl/elag2008/ nder ELAG 2009. Information for presenters The emphasis of the ELAG conference is on new developments and practical experience with library technology rather than academic presentations but relevant user studies are welcome. Presentations at the ELAG are generally 20-25 minutes in length to allow time for discussion. The working language of the conference is English. Submissions should include a 300-word description of the project or topic, references to sites if available and a short biography of the speaker indicating background, involvement in the project or activity and public presentation experience. The Programme Committee will review all submissions. Notification regarding acceptance will be made by early January 2009. Speakers are normally expected to provide their own travel accommodation costs and the nominal registration fee. Programme Committee Ron Davies, Belgium (Co-chair) Roy Gundersen, Norway (Co-chair) Alojz Androvič, Slovakia Iris Marthaler, Switzerland Ere Majaila, Finland Martin Svoboda, Czech Republic Maja Žumer, Slovenia What is the ELAG Conference? ELAG is Europe's premier conference on the application of information technology in libraries and documentation centres. For more than twenty-five years, the ELAG (European Library Automation Group) Conference has provided library and IT professionals with the opportunity to discuss new technologies, to review on-going developments and to exchange best practices. The conference follows a unique format, where subject-specific workshops alternate with single-track plenary presentations and a variety of social activities that provide a memorable opportunity to meet and exchange views with colleagues from a wide range of European countries. The 2009 conference will be hosted by the University Library of Bratislava, (Univerzitná knižnica v Bratislave or UKB) in Bratislava, the capital of Slovakia from 22 to 24 April, 2009. For information on past conferences go to http://www.elag.org.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zotero under attack
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sep 29, 2008, at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote: But there's nothing illegal about reverse engineering it. Unless perhaps you've signed a contract saying you wouldn't (did George Mason? Perhaps, if they have an EndNote license). Initially, I agreed. But it appears that George Mason did sign a site- wide license agreement (see the paragraph labeled #12 at http://dltj.org/article/zotero-lawsuit-extracts/ ), and the license agreement explicitly prohibits reverse engineering (paragraph labeled #15). To the best of my layman's understanding of the legal system, contract law (the license agreement) trumps copyright and patent law. I hope George Mason U is willing to stand up for Zotero. It's popular enough that hopefully they will. They /may/ be. Paragraph #31 says that GMU referred the matter to outside counsel. I suppose we just need to watch and wait to see what happens. Peter - -- Peter Murrayhttp://www.pandc.org/peter/work/ Assistant Director, New Service Development tel:+1-614-728-3600;ext=338 OhioLINK: the Ohio Library and Information NetworkColumbus, Ohio The Disruptive Library Technology Jesterhttp://dltj.org/ Attrib-Noncomm-Share http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) Comment: Ask me how you can start digitally signing your email! iD8DBQFI4OtR4+t4qSfPIHIRAmhLAKCtGklJ5TZCtyWLNtOymXUQSTM02ACgpB8G MOelJRqOYnXUS7uqRHAHIXI= =oh68 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zotero under attack
I'm guessing that GMU-paid people wrote the code in question—they have quite a team now. But it would an interesting legal question if outside people had done it as part of the Open Source process and GMU had merely agreed to include the code. Tim On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Peter Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sep 29, 2008, at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote: But there's nothing illegal about reverse engineering it. Unless perhaps you've signed a contract saying you wouldn't (did George Mason? Perhaps, if they have an EndNote license). Initially, I agreed. But it appears that George Mason did sign a site-wide license agreement (see the paragraph labeled #12 at http://dltj.org/article/zotero-lawsuit-extracts/ ), and the license agreement explicitly prohibits reverse engineering (paragraph labeled #15). To the best of my layman's understanding of the legal system, contract law (the license agreement) trumps copyright and patent law. I hope George Mason U is willing to stand up for Zotero. It's popular enough that hopefully they will. They /may/ be. Paragraph #31 says that GMU referred the matter to outside counsel. I suppose we just need to watch and wait to see what happens. Peter - -- Peter Murrayhttp://www.pandc.org/peter/work/ Assistant Director, New Service Development tel:+1-614-728-3600;ext=338 OhioLINK: the Ohio Library and Information NetworkColumbus, Ohio The Disruptive Library Technology Jesterhttp://dltj.org/ Attrib-Noncomm-Share http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/
[CODE4LIB] http://code4lib.org/conference
Could anyone provide more details on registration to http://code4lib.org/conference Kindest thanks, -- Ya¹aqov Ziso, Rowan University 856 256 4804 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zotero under attack
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sep 29, 2008, at 11:03 AM, Tim Spalding wrote: I'm guessing that GMU-paid people wrote the code in question―they have quite a team now. But it would an interesting legal question if outside people had done it as part of the Open Source process and GMU had merely agreed to include the code. Yeah -- I had the same thought. But the code was checked in by Simon Kornblith, one of the lead developers hired for Zotero development by GMU/CHNM (http://simonster.com/resume.thtml). Peter - -- Peter Murrayhttp://www.pandc.org/peter/work/ Assistant Director, New Service Development tel:+1-614-728-3600;ext=338 OhioLINK: the Ohio Library and Information NetworkColumbus, Ohio The Disruptive Library Technology Jesterhttp://dltj.org/ Attrib-Noncomm-Share http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) Comment: Ask me how you can start digitally signing your email! iD8DBQFI4PEx4+t4qSfPIHIRAv/uAJ0d34QrWemJ2QxYtah8my4zlzSsAQCfYYQI zfxcCA5I3BCr70hnIcptIRM= =wyuc -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zotero under attack
Peter Murray wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sep 29, 2008, at 11:03 AM, Tim Spalding wrote: I'm guessing that GMU-paid people wrote the code in question―they have quite a team now. But it would an interesting legal question if outside people had done it as part of the Open Source process and GMU had merely agreed to include the code. Yeah -- I had the same thought. But the code was checked in by Simon Kornblith, one of the lead developers hired for Zotero development by GMU/CHNM (http://simonster.com/resume.thtml). This will be interesting to see how it works out. From what I read, it looks like the case that Thomson has is based on, or at least strongly enhanced by, the EULA. Thus, the legal questions may end up being 1) is freeing data from a proprietary file format aviolation of copyright/patent/ etc.? and if not, 2) can you sign that away by agreeing to an EULA? My guess is that #1 is going to be a tough argument for Thomson to make in court. I wonder if there has been any cases about this for other file formats? Scenario #2 might be easier for Thomson to convince a judge of. If so, that means someone else, who didn't sign an EULA can make a Zotero plug in to deal with the .ens files and the community can move ahead. I really hope that if this finds its way to a court (or if an agreement between GMU and Thompson is reached) that the finding allows for the right to convert the data is not restricted automatically (i.e. #1 is allowed. providing an EULA doesn't restrict it). Edward Peter - -- Peter Murray http://www.pandc.org/peter/work/ Assistant Director, New Service Development tel:+1-614-728-3600;ext=338 OhioLINK: the Ohio Library and Information Network Columbus, Ohio The Disruptive Library Technology Jester http://dltj.org/ Attrib-Noncomm-Share http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) Comment: Ask me how you can start digitally signing your email! iD8DBQFI4PEx4+t4qSfPIHIRAv/uAJ0d34QrWemJ2QxYtah8my4zlzSsAQCfYYQI zfxcCA5I3BCr70hnIcptIRM= =wyuc -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [CODE4LIB] http://code4lib.org/conference
Ya'aqov, I don't believe registration is open for the 2009 conference yet. Keep an eye on the list and the code4lib.org website. Details specific to the 2009 conf will show up here: http://code4lib.org/conference/2009/ -Mike On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Ya'aqov Ziso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could anyone provide more details on registration to http://code4lib.org/conference Kindest thanks, -- Ya¹aqov Ziso, Rowan University 856 256 4804 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zotero under attack
Edward M. Corrado wrote: This will be interesting to see how it works out. From what I read, it looks like the case that Thomson has is based on, or at least strongly enhanced by, the EULA. Thus, the legal questions may end up being 1) is freeing data from a proprietary file format aviolation of copyright/patent/ etc.? and if not, 2) can you sign that away by agreeing to an EULA? Two points: First, it's my understanding that contract law trumps basic civil law in almost all cases. Unless you can convince a court that you entered into the contract under duress, or that the part of the contract in question is a violation of a basic unabridgeable right (this last being the reason a lot of employment contract non-compete clauses are unenforceable in several right-to-work states), you're bound by it. I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that reverse engineering is a Basic Right Of Humankind. Unless...The First Amendment guarantees the Right of Assembly. Can we extrapolate that and argue for a Right of Disassembly? ;-) Second, this isn't a EULA in the sense of By opening this package, you agree... or By clicking this, you agree... Those kinds of contracts are questionable. It's an actual contract granting GMU a site license for the Endnote software, negotiated by Thomson and GMU and agreed to in writing on both sides. I'll be disappointed if Thomson Reuters prevails on this one, but I won't be surprised, either, based on my own (admittedly limited) understanding. -- Michael B. Klein Digital Initiatives Technology Librarian Boston Public Library (617) 859-2391 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zotero under attack
Klein, Michael wrote: Edward M. Corrado wrote: This will be interesting to see how it works out. From what I read, it looks like the case that Thomson has is based on, or at least strongly enhanced by, the EULA. Thus, the legal questions may end up being 1) is freeing data from a proprietary file format aviolation of copyright/patent/ etc.? and if not, 2) can you sign that away by agreeing to an EULA? Two points: First, it's my understanding that contract law trumps basic civil law in almost all cases. Unless you can convince a court that you entered into the contract under duress, or that the part of the contract in question is a violation of a basic unabridgeable right (this last being the reason a lot of employment contract non-compete clauses are unenforceable in several right-to-work states), you're bound by it. I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that reverse engineering is a Basic Right Of Humankind. Unless...The First Amendment guarantees the Right of Assembly. Can we extrapolate that and argue for a Right of Disassembly? ;-) Second, this isn't a EULA in the sense of By opening this package, you agree... or By clicking this, you agree... Those kinds of contracts are questionable. It's an actual contract granting GMU a site license for the Endnote software, negotiated by Thomson and GMU and agreed to in writing on both sides. This is a very good point. I'll be disappointed if Thomson Reuters prevails on this one, but I won't be surprised, either, based on my own (admittedly limited) understanding. Same here. If it wasn't for the EULA I'd probably think differently. Edward
[CODE4LIB] authors wanted for access2008
Authors are wanted for Access2008. I'm sure a number of us here will be attending the venerable Access2008 Conference. [1] I'm also sure many of us attendees will be blogging the event. I have also learned that Ariadne [2] is seeking authors to write articles about the conference for an upcoming issue. If you would like to share your thoughts with the readers of Ariadne, then drop a line to the editor, Richard Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED]. I'm sure Richard will welcome your input. [1] http://access2008.blog.lib.mcmaster.ca/ [2] http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/ -- Eric Lease Morgan University of Notre Dame (574) 631-8604
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zotero under attack
Am I wrong, though, in thinking that a clean-room recreation of the Zotero code that parses .ens files would be legal (although the use of ISI-provided .ens files would still be, at best, questionable)? If so, I'd like to encourage everyone who might be interested in working on such a project to *not* look at any Zotero code. At all. If this holds up and the offending code is removed, anyone re-engineering it would need to have never been in contact with the original code. Or (as I started with), am I wrong? On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Edward M. Corrado [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Klein, Michael wrote: Edward M. Corrado wrote: This will be interesting to see how it works out. From what I read, it looks like the case that Thomson has is based on, or at least strongly enhanced by, the EULA. Thus, the legal questions may end up being 1) is freeing data from a proprietary file format aviolation of copyright/patent/ etc.? and if not, 2) can you sign that away by agreeing to an EULA? Two points: First, it's my understanding that contract law trumps basic civil law in almost all cases. Unless you can convince a court that you entered into the contract under duress, or that the part of the contract in question is a violation of a basic unabridgeable right (this last being the reason a lot of employment contract non-compete clauses are unenforceable in several right-to-work states), you're bound by it. I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that reverse engineering is a Basic Right Of Humankind. Unless...The First Amendment guarantees the Right of Assembly. Can we extrapolate that and argue for a Right of Disassembly? ;-) Second, this isn't a EULA in the sense of By opening this package, you agree... or By clicking this, you agree... Those kinds of contracts are questionable. It's an actual contract granting GMU a site license for the Endnote software, negotiated by Thomson and GMU and agreed to in writing on both sides. This is a very good point. I'll be disappointed if Thomson Reuters prevails on this one, but I won't be surprised, either, based on my own (admittedly limited) understanding. Same here. If it wasn't for the EULA I'd probably think differently. Edward -- Bill Dueber Library Systems Programmer University of Michigan Library
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zotero under attack
Edward M. Corrado wrote: This will be interesting to see how it works out. From what I read, it looks like the case that Thomson has is based on, or at least strongly enhanced by, the EULA. Thus, the legal questions may end up being 1) is freeing data from a proprietary file format aviolation of copyright/patent/ etc.? and if not, 2) can you sign that away by agreeing to an EULA? Michael B. Klein wrote: Second, this isn't a EULA in the sense of By opening this package, you agree... or By clicking this, you agree... Those kinds of contracts are questionable. It's an actual contract granting GMU a site license for the Endnote software, negotiated by Thomson and GMU and agreed to in writing on both sides. I guess I wonder whether the Zotero developers at the Center for History and New Media were aware of the existence, much less the terms, of the Endnote software contract. If they were aware of the terms and decided to do the reverse-engineering anyway, the legal consequences will be much worse. My experience with large institutions, however, suggests that this was probably a decision made in ignorance of the contract. Danielle Cunniff Plumer, Coordinator Texas Heritage Digitization Initiative Texas State Library and Archives Commission 512.463.5852 (phone) / 512.936.2306 (fax) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zotero under attack
Makes sense to me. Only the judge that decides the case knows for sure. Jonathan Bill Dueber wrote: Am I wrong, though, in thinking that a clean-room recreation of the Zotero code that parses .ens files would be legal (although the use of ISI-provided .ens files would still be, at best, questionable)? If so, I'd like to encourage everyone who might be interested in working on such a project to *not* look at any Zotero code. At all. If this holds up and the offending code is removed, anyone re-engineering it would need to have never been in contact with the original code. Or (as I started with), am I wrong? On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Edward M. Corrado [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Klein, Michael wrote: Edward M. Corrado wrote: This will be interesting to see how it works out. From what I read, it looks like the case that Thomson has is based on, or at least strongly enhanced by, the EULA. Thus, the legal questions may end up being 1) is freeing data from a proprietary file format aviolation of copyright/patent/ etc.? and if not, 2) can you sign that away by agreeing to an EULA? Two points: First, it's my understanding that contract law trumps basic civil law in almost all cases. Unless you can convince a court that you entered into the contract under duress, or that the part of the contract in question is a violation of a basic unabridgeable right (this last being the reason a lot of employment contract non-compete clauses are unenforceable in several right-to-work states), you're bound by it. I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that reverse engineering is a Basic Right Of Humankind. Unless...The First Amendment guarantees the Right of Assembly. Can we extrapolate that and argue for a Right of Disassembly? ;-) Second, this isn't a EULA in the sense of By opening this package, you agree... or By clicking this, you agree... Those kinds of contracts are questionable. It's an actual contract granting GMU a site license for the Endnote software, negotiated by Thomson and GMU and agreed to in writing on both sides. This is a very good point. I'll be disappointed if Thomson Reuters prevails on this one, but I won't be surprised, either, based on my own (admittedly limited) understanding. Same here. If it wasn't for the EULA I'd probably think differently. Edward -- Jonathan Rochkind Digital Services Software Engineer The Sheridan Libraries Johns Hopkins University 410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
It just seems like if you've got Endeca doing the heavy lifting already, then building something separate just to allow you to enter a specific point in a sorted results list sounds like hard work? Two possible approaches that occur to me (and of course not knowing Endeca they may be well off base I guess). Can Endeca retrieve all records with a call number, and drop the user into a specific point in the sorted results set? I'm guessing not, otherwise you probably wouldn't be looking for alternative approaches. Is the problem dropping the user in at the right point in the sorted results set, or in the size of the results set generated? An alternative approach possibly? If Endeca can retrieve results and display them in Call Number order, then could you not submit a search that retrieves a 'shelf' of books at a time? That is, take a Call Number as an input, calculate a range around the call number to search and pass this to Endeca? This allows you to control the set size, but still there is a question of whether Endeca can drop the user into a specific point within a sorted results set. If not, then can it return records in a format that you can then manipulate (e.g. XML)? With a small, pre-sorted, results set, it should be relatively easy to build something that drops the user into the correct point based on their search? Owen Owen Stephens Assistant Director: eStrategy and Information Resources Central Library Imperial College London South Kensington Campus London SW7 2AZ t: +44 (0)20 7594 8829 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Emily Lynema Sent: 21 September 2008 16:38 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse Well, we're using LC and SUDOC here. What I really want is something that is both searchable and browsable, so that users can type in a call number and then browse backward and forward as much as they want in call number order. We have Endeca here, so my patrons can browse into the LC scheme and then sort the results in call number order, but I don't have a way to browse forward and backward starting with a specific call number (like you would if you were browsing the shelves physically). -emily Keith Jenkins wrote: Emily, Are you using LC or Dewey? A while back, I wanted to generate browsable lists of new books, organized by topic. I ended up using the LC call number to group the titles into manageable groups. Here's an example: http://supportingcast.mannlib.cornell.edu/newbooks/?loc=mann Titles are sorted by call number, and also grouped by the initial letters of the LC classification, such as Q or QL. For monthly lists of new books, most groupings usually have less than 20 titles, which makes for easy browsing of titles within someone's general subject of interest. The Table of Contents at the top of the page only lists those classifications that are present in the set of titles currently being viewed. (In an earlier version, Q would only be split into QA, QB, etc. if there were more than 20 items with Q call numbers.) Things do tend to get a bit out of control in some of the classifications for literature... no one wants to scan through a list of 452 titles: http://supportingcast.mannlib.cornell.edu/newbooks/?class=PL So for entire collections, a lot more work would be needed to create finer subgroups, since each classification is uniquely complex. For example: PL1-8844 : Languages of Eastern Asia, Africa, Oceania PL1-481 : Ural-Altaic languages PL21-396 : Turkic languages PL400-431 : Mongolian languages PL450-481 : Tungus Manchu languages (An idea... maybe it would work to simply forget about pre- determined, named call number ranges and look for natural breaks in the call numbers, rather than trying to model the intricate details of each individual classification schedule.) The site runs on a set of MARC records extracted from the catalog. Users can also subscribe to RSS feeds for any combination of location, language, or classification group. I did some early experimentation to include cover images, but never seemed to get enough matches to make that worthwhile. Keith Keith Jenkins GIS/Geospatial Applications Librarian Mann Library, Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853 On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Emily Lynema [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey all, I would love to tackle the issue of creating a really cool call number browse tool that utilizes book covers, etc. However, I'd like to do this outside of my ILS/OPAC. What I don't know is whether there are any indexing / SQL / query techniques that could be used to browse forward and backword in an index like this. Has anyone else worked on developing a tool like this outside of the OPAC? I
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Michael Doran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you're retrieving the data from your ILS and the ILS already has a normalized call number field, you would want to retrieve that in addition to your display call number. That would allow for sorting by call number rather than by a database ID and would allow for easier updates of the data (i.e. you wouldn't have to re-generate the entire database ID index). If your ILS doesn't have normalized call numbers, you might want to normalize them yourself as part of the data load process. It looks like Michael's already got some beta code out there to normalize LC call numbers ;-) http://rocky.uta.edu/doran/sortlc/sortLC.pl In general, I think normalizing LC will be tricky. (Actually, normalizing *any* schema will, I think, be tricky.) Also, combining call numbers from different schemas (LC and SUDOC in this example) may provide some interesting challenges at the edges. The other (harder-core) route you might go down would be to create a custom datatype and index in your database system of choice. This may actually be easier than transforming call numbers into a natively-indexable string (all you should need is a sort function then, really) -- but extending your database is not for the faint of heart. Cheers, -Nate
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo?
Before hiring a professional, I suggest we tap into our own resources first. I personally have designed several logos for companies and websites (in some cases I was even paid!), but am by no means professionally trained, nor do I consider myself a professional graphic designer. I would bet that there are others in this community that are similarly talented, or have similarly talented students/colleagues. If one person would be interested in taking submissions and putting them on a webpage to tally votes, we could all have a say. If this route proves unsuccessful, then hiring a professional would certainly be an option. Either way, there should be a few guidelines predetermined (to make things easier for everyone involved) such as file format and size. I typically suggest logos be 2 or 3 colors max, not including negative space. Since I'm new to the community, are there any colors/fonts that are used/preferred, or is this branding a grounds-up sort of operation? :) Amanda __ Amanda Hartman, MLIS, Digital Services Librarian J. Sargeant Reynolds Community College 1651 East Parham Road Parham Campus Library, Richmond VA 23228 Phone: (804) 523-5226 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: www.amandahartman.com -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Karen Schneider Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 7:32 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo? I agree on the need for branding, and on offering the community several professionally-developed choices. I worded that carefully. I'd like to see a professionally-designed logo for the same reason I like to watch good software developers at work: the quality of effort doth pleaseth the citizens. I'd like to see Code4Lib to have a logo that reflects the quality of the people associated with its loose sovereignty. Branding means a lot, and it tells many stories. Without waxing prolix about those stories (though I'll be happy to do that if anyone's interested in further justification for my argument), I'll move on to say a little room for bubble-up efforts would also be apropos. You never know who's out there or what they are possible of. (Oh Brad, you guys can't write an *ILS.*) My take would be that if we have the resources, to offer the community several choices from an entity whose business it is to design logos, yet encourage write-ins. -- | Karen G. Schneider | Community Librarian | Equinox Software Inc. The Evergreen Experts | Toll-free: 1.877.Open.ILS (1.877.673.6457) x712 | E-Mail/AIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Web: http://www.esilibrary.com On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 12:04 AM, Edward M. Corrado [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I am all for a logo, but I also agree with Kevin it needs to be a community based decision. I'm also not sold that we need a professional designed logo, but I'm not against it either. I can understand why a business would not want to leave it to amateurs (although I have seen some great logos created by design school students) but I'm not sure what a professional logo would give us that a community derived one wouldn't. Roy, what do you think that would be that would gain by using a professional logo company? Edward - actually wearing a code4lib conference t-shirt right now On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Carol Bean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, looking at Software Freedom Day, which has somehow managed to get itself a logo with virtually no organizational infrastructure, I don't see why Code4Lib shouldn't. I suspect their logo design wasn't done by amateurs, however, even if they were volunteers. Of course they have a much larger, global base of volunteers... I think it's a cool idea. Carol On Sep 19, 2008, at 11:39 PM, Kevin S. Clarke wrote: I like the idea. A real logo would be nice. My one caveat is I'd still like everyone who'd like to have a voice to have one (I like voting). I'd be less in favor of a committee of volunteers to make the decision. I don't know how that would work with a professional graphic designer though. Could they give us several options and open it up to a vote? Kevin On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 11:29 PM, Roy Tennant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was in the middle of writing a blog post about Code4Lib going regional when it hit me -- here we have this incredibly successful brand and yet we lack a t-shirt. But I guess we lack a t-shirt because we lack a logo to put on it. The closest we get are the items that decorate our web site. Are we at the point where we're ready to establish an official graphic identity, that can grace our web site, journal, conference, etc.? I think so. So here's my proposal: we take some of the money that has been passed down from conference to conference and we hire a graphic designer to do a professional job of it. Branding is best not left to amateurs. We put together a committee of volunteers to
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
Ken, That is an impressive collation of call numbers for each subject! Clearly a lot of work went into this. (For example, bringing together precise call number ranges within BX, DC, GV, HV, HX, LB, NA, NB, PN, PS, TH, and Z into the single topic Architecture.) Can you tell us a bit about how those call number ranges were compiled? Also, are those browse categories related to UMich departments, or perhaps something else? Cheers, Keith On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Ken Varnum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The categories are sort of interesting in themselves -- each is manually managed, pulling together LC call numbers that fit into that subject. The mapping of call numbers and searches is available at http://www.lib.umich.edu/browse/categories/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo?
I'll vote no on a logo. Not interested in adopting corporate mentality. -- Wally Jonathan Rochkind wrote: To me, a committee of volunteers that anyone interested can be on _is_ a community decision. This is sort of a philosophical discussion/debate we've had before. Some people think community democracy contradicts having a certain specific committee, community democracy requires that everyone involved in the community can step in and step out at any time, can participate in every decision even if they hadn't participated in previous decisions, etc. Me, I don't think that's a requirement, and I think there are often problems with that approach. To me, establishing a committee which is open to any volunteers---but which carries with it the expectation that serving on the committee is accepting responsibility for getting stuff done---is community democracy too, and often preferable. In this case, I think either could work, whatever people who want to spend time organizing it want to organize. (Ah, but again, the recognition that there will be some certain people who spend time organizing it. If it's going to happen, that's just a fact, some people will really take on and do the work, that's how it works. That's why I'd say, okay, call them a committee. Certainly, the opinions of anyone in the committee should be taken into account by those doing the work, but I don't have a lot of patience for people who demand unlimited decision making power without accepting responsibility for work.). Jonathan Edward M. Corrado wrote: I am all for a logo, but I also agree with Kevin it needs to be a community based decision. I'm also not sold that we need a professional designed logo, but I'm not against it either. I can understand why a business would not want to leave it to amateurs (although I have seen some great logos created by design school students) but I'm not sure what a professional logo would give us that a community derived one wouldn't. Roy, what do you think that would be that would gain by using a professional logo company? Edward - actually wearing a code4lib conference t-shirt right now On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Carol Bean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, looking at Software Freedom Day, which has somehow managed to get itself a logo with virtually no organizational infrastructure, I don't see why Code4Lib shouldn't. I suspect their logo design wasn't done by amateurs, however, even if they were volunteers. Of course they have a much larger, global base of volunteers... I think it's a cool idea. Carol On Sep 19, 2008, at 11:39 PM, Kevin S. Clarke wrote: I like the idea. A real logo would be nice. My one caveat is I'd still like everyone who'd like to have a voice to have one (I like voting). I'd be less in favor of a committee of volunteers to make the decision. I don't know how that would work with a professional graphic designer though. Could they give us several options and open it up to a vote? Kevin On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 11:29 PM, Roy Tennant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was in the middle of writing a blog post about Code4Lib going regional when it hit me -- here we have this incredibly successful brand and yet we lack a t-shirt. But I guess we lack a t-shirt because we lack a logo to put on it. The closest we get are the items that decorate our web site. Are we at the point where we're ready to establish an official graphic identity, that can grace our web site, journal, conference, etc.? I think so. So here's my proposal: we take some of the money that has been passed down from conference to conference and we hire a graphic designer to do a professional job of it. Branding is best not left to amateurs. We put together a committee of volunteers to handle it. I know of at least one design firm that I think would do a good job, since they just designed a t-shirt for OCLC that we really liked, and they were delighted to work with library coders. See http://www.sanchezcircuit.com/catalog/. There are no doubt others as well. One of the nice things about a logo is that although it establishes a solid graphic identity, it doesn't really take any organizational infrastructure to do it, which seems to fit right in with the c4l vibe. So am I crazy? Stupid? Or right? You decide. Roy -- There are two kinds of people in the world: those who believe there are two kinds of people and those who know better. Carol Bean [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo?
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Jonathan Rochkind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To me, a committee of volunteers that anyone interested can be on _is_ a community decision. Yeah, I'm fine with this too (kind of). I would be against a committee that wasn't open to whomever wanted to join (like, here are ten people who are going to decide this), but I'm fine with an open committee... The only downside with this approach (which would worry me a bit) is that people who aren't the elders (a term I think ecorrado used at one point) might feel like they shouldn't get involved in such a small committee because they've only been hanging around six months or so (or whatever). As long as everyone feels like they have as much a right to put their 2 cents in as anyone else, open committees are fine. That's one advantage of the larger group (for this sort of thing) though... you can place your anonymous vote without having to assume any real responsibility... you get the ownership without any of the work ;-) but I don't have a lot of patience for people who demand unlimited decision making power without accepting responsibility for work.). Yeah, that's it. I have no problem (for this sort of thing) with someone who doesn't assume any responsibility but wants to have a say. It's a little different I think than the journal where there is an ongoing commitment (it's a project that requires sustained work). Kevin -- There are two kinds of people in the world: those who believe there are two kinds of people and those who know better.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo?
The key to working with a professional is in identiyfing the design program — what the organization's story is, who its community is, and who you want to get your message to with the branding, as well as identifying what uses the logo will be used for — print, promotional items (t-shirts, hats, temporary tatoos, whatever), online — which has on effect on the deliverables, e.g. file sizes and formats. I'm for the logo that are designed professionally like the design program described above. This doesn't mean that the designer have to be a professional. They could be amateurs as well. LaunchPad [1] and SpamAssassin [2] have great examples. On a side note, I'll go for the temporary tattoos. Also a sticker that I can put on my laptop. ;-) ranti. [1] https://help.launchpad.net/logo/ [2] http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/LogoContest -- Bulk mail. Postage paid.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo?
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Michael J. Giarlo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If folks are in favor of someone in the community -- the list now has over 1,000 subscribers -- rather than a professional designing the logo, perhaps this could be a contest of sorts, much like our conference t-shirt contest. What's the prize? Why, free admission to code4lib 2009! Just a crazy idea. Otherwise, I like the idea of having a professional handle it with community approval. -1 on hiring a professional. What part of outsourcing creative fits right in with the c4l vibe? I'm skeptical of the need for a logo in general, but if we did it like we handled the t-shirts I don't see any downside. --jay
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo?
Dear Code4Lib, Because I'm not a coder or a librarian, I am not a member of the Code4Lib community. However, my husband Jonathan, who is a member, told me about the logo thread Roy started last week. As a professional designer, I agree with Roy that Code4Lib could use a well-designed logo to bring its activities under a unified brand. Having close ties, I would like to do my part to help out your community. To that end, I am volunteering to design a logo for Code4Lib. My one request would be that you actually work with me as a professional designer, rather than turning this into an open contest. Code4Lib is many things to many people. Reconciling these perspectives into a single brand is, as Roy said, not an amateur task, and will require some coordination to merge the input and ideas from the community. As for the process, I think Roy has it right. Form a small committee to handle the details and distill the opinions of the community at large. I'll start with a few drafts the committee and community can comment on, and we'll go from there. What do you think? Sincerely, Stephanie Brinley President, Adelie Design http://www.AdelieDesign.com/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo?
Dear Code4Lib, Because I'm not a coder or a librarian, I am not a member of the Code4Lib community. However, my husband Jonathan, who is a member, told me about the logo thread Roy started last week. As a professional designer, I agree with Roy that Code4Lib could use a well-designed logo to bring its activities under a unified brand. Having close ties, I would like to do my part to help out your community. To that end, I am volunteering to design a logo for Code4Lib. My one request would be that you actually work with me as a professional designer, rather than turning this into an open contest. Code4Lib is many things to many people. Reconciling these perspectives into a single brand is, as Roy said, not an amateur task, and will require some coordination to merge the input and ideas from the community. As for the process, I think Roy has it right. Form a small committee to handle the details and distill the opinions of the community at large. I'll start with a few drafts the committee and community can comment on, and we'll go from there. What do you think? Sincerely, Stephanie Brinley President, Adelie Design http://www.AdelieDesign.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo
I should clarify for those who might not have been following this thread closely, Stephanie Brinley said that she was volunteering to create a logo for code4lib. Options 1 and 3 would both cost us some money, whereas option 2 would be free of charge. Edward Edward M. Corrado wrote: I am still not convinced we need a professional designed logo, but it seems most people who responded to this thread do, so I'm happy to go along with it. Personally, I'd just type code4lib in Helvitica, save it as a .png and be done with it :-). Compared to the other links we have seen, I like what I have seen on Stephanie Brinley's site better than the other sites that were posted. The logos are simple, yet memorable and in some way elegant. At any point, it seems we should have some sort of vote and come to a decision on how we are going to proceed. If I recall, our choices are: 1) Go with http://www.sanchezcircuit.com/catalog/ 2) Go with Stephanie Brinley's Adelie Design http://www.AdelieDesign.com/ 3) Use a design contest method on http://99designs.com/ 4) Have people submit a logo for the community to vote on like we did for conference t-shirts Has there been any other options discussed (or that should be discussed)? Edward Carol Bean wrote: I don't know who Roy or the others have in mind, but I like what I see at adeliedesign.com. Given her requirements, which don't seem too unreasonable, I wonder if we could start with the code4lib community making the choice of which designer to work with? Carol On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Stephanie Brinley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Code4Lib, Because I'm not a coder or a librarian, I am not a member of the Code4Lib community. However, my husband Jonathan, who is a member, told me about the logo thread Roy started last week. As a professional designer, I agree with Roy that Code4Lib could use a well-designed logo to bring its activities under a unified brand. Having close ties, I would like to do my part to help out your community. To that end, I am volunteering to design a logo for Code4Lib. My one request would be that you actually work with me as a professional designer, rather than turning this into an open contest. Code4Lib is many things to many people. Reconciling these perspectives into a single brand is, as Roy said, not an amateur task, and will require some coordination to merge the input and ideas from the community. As for the process, I think Roy has it right. Form a small committee to handle the details and distill the opinions of the community at large. I'll start with a few drafts the committee and community can comment on, and we'll go from there. What do you think? Sincerely, Stephanie Brinley President, Adelie Design http://www.AdelieDesign.com/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo
Ignite, Drupal, Ubuntu, OLPC and lots of other tech groups have logos and brand identities. Actually some of the best-known logos are for non-profits--I'll bet most of us can mentally summon the United Way logo, no problem. I don't see it as a corpporate gesture. Code4Lib is a group that people are excited to be associated with, so I think it makes sense to have a logo to put on stickers, shirts, etc. I'll offer that I tried my hand at designing a logo for my library last year. In fact, several of my colleagues made attempts as well, but I won't implicate them by name. The results ranged from uninspiring to ridiculously terrible. We're now working with a professional graphic designer and I think that's a good way to go. Because of our project, I've gotten interested in logos and would like to volunteer to serve on the committee, if there is one. Emily
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Nicolas Morin [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 3:56 PM, wally grotophorst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll risk ostracism and admit that I think this concern with a logo is a little too corporate for my sensibilities. But then that'd be part of the guidelines given to the designer: the logo shouldn't look too corporate if it's to represent what the code4lib community is about... Nicolas Actually, his beef appears to be with the group's concern itself, regardless of any logo produced. Is that a correct interpretation, Wally? It would be a logical entailment that if the group can't consider producing a logo, it either goes on without one or maybe lucks into having one (or several, perhaps of varying quality) with some unstable *de facto*consensus. To me, the results of this approach tend to look amateurish (including my own). I think code4lib should have a quality logo, and therefore should have an open and deterministic process for producing and selecting one. This fairly rudimentary level of organization really has nothing to do with corporateness. My family picks the photo they want to sent out with the Christmas cards, but that doesn't make us a corporation. If there is a persuasive case to be made *against* pursuing a logo for the group, please consider now the time to make it... --joe atzberger
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo
I submit this for a logo: http://code4lib.org/themes/panizzi/panizzi-watermark.png Flogging the I don't give a rat's ass vote since 1 minute ago. On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Roy Tennant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since we've been getting a variety of responses to my suggestion that now may be a good time to establish a graphic identity for Code4Lib, I've set up a poll to try to gauge the sense of the community on this issue. Please see http://code4lib.org/node/256. Roy
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo?
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Jonathan Rochkind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To me, a committee of volunteers that anyone interested can be on _is_ a community decision. Well it all depends on how the committee is selected doesn't it? If it's people who care enough to volunteer, and are selected, and nobody is excluded then yeah I agree. But if it's some cabal of people that aren't selected in any meaningful way then it's not. I think voting on stuff like this has served code4lib well in the past .. and I don't see any reason to kill that spirit now. //Ed
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo
In regards to ownership and trademarks... Typically, the client has full ownership of a logo to use however they wish. Since Code4Lib technically can't own the logo, I would recommend having the logo released under the Attribution-NoDerivshttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/CC License. This will allow your community to use the logo however you see fit, while still maintaining the integrity of the brand. Also, you can claim trademark on the logo just by adding a TM to it and using it in a manner consistent with trademark law. The R-ball, as it is referred to, can only legally be used if it is registered with the federal government. -- Stephanie Brinley Adelie Design On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Edward M. Corrado [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Thomas Dowling wrote: On 09/23/2008 09:38 AM, Edward M. Corrado wrote: Personally, I'd just type code4lib in Helvitica, save it as a .png and be done with it A proprietary font? I suspect that DejaVu Sans Mono is more simpatico with code4lib. :-) Well, if we are going to pay for something... but I concede your point. Has there been any other options discussed (or that should be discussed)? How about trademark ownership and permissions for any logo? I'd hate to see any conflict or misunderstanding down the road about who can put the logo on what, who can sell t-shirts with it, etc. Good point. I don't particularly care what we decide, but I think we do need to come up with a group decision about this issue. Edward -- Stephanie Brinley Designer, President AdelieDesign.com (765) 274-0383
Re: [CODE4LIB] LOC Authority Data
Socialized medicine? Sure. *We* have authority files! -t On Tue, 23 Sep 2008, David Fiander wrote: One of the most important pages in the print volumes of the Library of Congress Subject Headings (LCSH), is the title page verso, which includes publication and copyright details. The folks at LC very clearly understand US copyright law, since on that page you can see that they claim that the LCSH is copyright LC _outside of the United States of America_. The same probably holds true for the copyright claim on the name authority files. You folks in the United States can do what you will with impunity, but us unwashed masses beyond your shores are likely to get in trouble. Probably the next time we attempt to cross the border. - David On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Jason Griffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I mentioned, they are available from Ibiblio on the link above. The copyright claim is...well...specious at best. But no one really wants to be the one to go to court and prove it. They've been publicly available for more than a year now on the Fred 2.0 site, and they haven't been sued, to my knowledge. Jason On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Nate Vack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Bryan Baldus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One way (as you likely know) (official, expensive) is via The Library of Congress Cataloging Distribution Service: Huh. They claim copyright of these records. I'd somehow thought: 1: The federal government can't hold copyrights 2: As purely factual data, catalog records are conceptually uncopyrightable Anyone who knows more about this than I do know if they're *really* copyrighted, or if it's more of a we're gonna try and say they're copyrighted and hope no one ignores us? Curious, -Nate
Re: [CODE4LIB] LOC Authority Data
I was aware of this data - but I'm really curious if anyone has ever heard of or seen a scraping process that is run frequently to get updates. The data on the fred2.0 site is from 2006. I'd like to try to keep an up to date copy - especially since us Americans are entitled to free access to the data. Andrew -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Griffey Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:06 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] LOC Authority Data Simon Spero at UNC did a scrape of the entirety of the LoC Authority files in Dec of 2006. They are available at Fred 2.0: http://www.ibiblio.org/fred2.0/wordpress/?page_id=10 Jason On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Andrew Nagy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello - I am curious if anyone knows of a way to access the entire collection of authority records from the LOC. It seems that the only way to access them know is one record at a time. Feel free to email me off line if you are uncomfortable posting a response to the list. Thanks Andrew
Re: [CODE4LIB] LOC Authority Data
Although note that these are only *subject* authorities. Andrew, I think you may also be looking for name authorities (since I assume this inquiry came from a suspiciously topically similar thread on vufind-tech). Yes - I would love to be able to obtain all authority files. Also, Ed's SKOS data lumps all of the subfields into one string literal, so: Yeah - the marc record has much more data than the rdf file. I haven't explored the indexing process of authority records in detail enough yet to determine if this string munging is a problem or not. Andrew
Re: [CODE4LIB] LOC Authority Data
Individual facts or datum are not copyrightable, but collections of facts -- particular expressions of data -- are. This is what makes phone books, databases, and the like subject to copyright. P.S. N.B. IANAL On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Jonathan Rochkind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interestingly, outside the US it's somewhat more possible to claim copyright on factual data than inside the US, Europe for instance has types of IP and copyright protection for databases that the US does not. But basically, the answer is that nobody knows for sure, not even the lawyers. Jonathan Bryan Baldus wrote: On Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:17 PM, Nate Vack wrote: Huh. They claim copyright of these records. I'd somehow thought: 1: The federal government can't hold copyrights The page [1] states: Copyright Records in the MARC Distribution Services originating with the Library of Congress are copyrighted by the Library of Congress for use outside the United States. Subscribers are granted copyright permission to selectively redistribute records outside the United States; contact LC prior to any distribution. So, in the U.S., they are not copyrightable, but outside the U.S. some copyright claim might be justified. 2: As purely factual data, catalog records are conceptually uncopyrightable For the most part, personally I would agree with this, at least for individual records (though some parts of the record, like the 520 summaries, might contain enough original creativity that could be considered copyrightable). Others might believe otherwise, at least as it pertains to the collection of the records as a whole--for example, OCLC's copyright claims on their database of records. ## On the Fred 2.0 records, aside from their age, I wish they were available in MARC 21 format rather than XML with NFC encoding. When I tried to use MarcEdit to convert the files from XML to MARC 21 (January 2007), I ran into issues with character encodings. The files also seemed to lack header lines like: ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? collection xmlns=http://www.loc.gov/MARC21/slim; [1] http://www.loc.gov/cds/mds.html#lcaf Thank you for your assistance, Bryan Baldus Cataloger Quality Books Inc. The Best of America's Independent Presses 1-800-323-4241x402 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Jonathan Rochkind Digital Services Software Engineer The Sheridan Libraries Johns Hopkins University 410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu -- Shawn Boyette [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse
one counter argument that i would make to this is that we consistently hear from faculty that they absolutely adore browsing the stacks--there is something that they have learned to love about the experience regardless of whether they understand that it is made possible by the work of catalogers assigning call numbers and then using them for ordering the stacks. at uw-madison we have a faculty lecture series where we invite professors to talk about their use of library materials and their research and one historian said outright, the one thing that is missing in the online environment is the experience of browsing the stacks. he seemed to understand that with all the mass digitization efforts, we could be on the edge of accomplishing it. that said, i agree that we should do what you say also, just that we should not throw the baby out w/ the bath water. if faculty somehow understand that browsing the stacks is a good experience then we can use it as a metaphor in the online environment. in an unofficial project i have experimented w/ primitive interface tests using both subject heading 'more like this' and a link to a stack browse based on a call number sort: http://j2ee-dev.library.wisc.edu/sanecat/item.html?resourceId=951506 (please, ignore the sloppy import problems, i just didn't care that much for the interface test) as for the original question, this has about a million records and 900,000 w/ item numbers and a simple btree index in the database sorts at an acceptable speed for a development test. -sm Walker, David wrote: a decent UI is probably going to be a bigger job I've always felt that the call number browse was a really useful option, but the most disastrously implemented feature in most ILS catalog interfaces. I think the problem is that we're focusing on the task -- browsing the shelf -- as opposed to the *goal*, which is, I think, simply to show users books that are related to the one they are looking at. If you treat it like that (here are books that are related to this book) and dispense with the notion of call numbers and shelves in the interface (even if what you're doing behind the scenes is in fact a call number browse) then I think you can arrive at a much simpler and straight-forward UI for users. I would treat it little different than Amazon's recommendations feature, for example. --Dave == David Walker Library Web Services Manager California State University http://xerxes.calstate.edu From: Code for Libraries [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephens, Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:17 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse I'm not sure, but my guess would be that the example you give isn't really a 'browse index' function, but rather creates a search result set and presents it in a specific way (i.e. via cover images) sorted by call number (by the look of it, it has an ID of the bib record as input, and it displays this book and 10 before it, and 10 after it, in call number order. Whether this is how bibliocommons achieves it or not is perhaps besides the point - this is how I think I would approach it. I'm winging it here, but if I was doing some quick and very dirty here: A simple db table with fields: Database ID (numeric counter auto-increment) Bib record ID URIs to book covers (or more likely the relevant information to create the URIs such as ISBN) Call number To start, get a report from your ILS with this info in it, sorted by Call Number. To populate the table, import your data (sorted in Call Number order). The Database ID will be created on import, automatically in call number order (there are other, almost certainly better, ways of handling this, but this is simple I think) To create your shelf browse given a Bib ID select that record and get the database ID. Then requery selecting all records which have database IDs +-10 of the one you have just retrieved. Output results in appropriate format (e.g. html) using book cover URIs to display the images. Obviously with this approach, you'd need to recreate your data table regularly to keep it up to date (resetting your Database ID if you want). Well - just how I'd do it if I wanted something up and running quickly. As Andy notes, a decent UI is probably going to be a bigger job ;) Owen Owen Stephens Assistant Director: eStrategy and Information Resources Central Library Imperial College London South Kensington Campus London SW7 2AZ t: +44 (0)20 7594 8829 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Emily Lynema Sent: 17 September 2008 16:46 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] creating call number browse Hey all, I would love to tackle the issue of creating a really cool call number browse tool that utilizes book covers, etc. However, I'd like to do this
Re: [CODE4LIB] Logo vote
Oh yeah. Especially in light of the other thread on code4lib: http://www.courthousenews.com/2008/09/17/Reuters_Says_George_Mason_University_Is_Handing_Out_Its_Proprietary_Software.htm On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Edward M. Corrado [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Pirates! Shanley-Roberts, Ross A. Mr. wrote: Ninjas!!! -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Dowling Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 1:57 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Logo vote On 09/26/2008 02:52 PM, Michael J. Giarlo wrote: Yeah, and no silly options like NINJAS!!! Because, you know, NINJAS!!! always wins. Wait, we can have ninjas for our logo? -- Carol Bean [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] Logo vote
My point, I trust, is now abundantly clear. :) On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Edward M. Corrado [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pirates! Shanley-Roberts, Ross A. Mr. wrote: Ninjas!!! -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Dowling Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 1:57 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Logo vote On 09/26/2008 02:52 PM, Michael J. Giarlo wrote: Yeah, and no silly options like NINJAS!!! Because, you know, NINJAS!!! always wins. Wait, we can have ninjas for our logo?
Re: [CODE4LIB] LOC Authority Data
Oh! You're right, they're clear about that on their web page, as well. As Bryan points out. So, wait: A bunch of libraries could pool together, buy the Whole Enchilada for $28k, and put up a torrent? Or, put another way, for less than the base salary of a starting developer, *everyone* in the US could have access to this *massive* store of authority data and build Awesome Things? Think we could find a consortium that'd pony up? ;-) Cheers, -Nate PS - Dear rest of the world: you're on the honor system, OK? On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 4:36 PM, David Fiander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the most important pages in the print volumes of the Library of Congress Subject Headings (LCSH), is the title page verso, which includes publication and copyright details. The folks at LC very clearly understand US copyright law, since on that page you can see that they claim that the LCSH is copyright LC _outside of the United States of America_. The same probably holds true for the copyright claim on the name authority files. You folks in the United States can do what you will with impunity, but us unwashed masses beyond your shores are likely to get in trouble. Probably the next time we attempt to cross the border. - David On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Jason Griffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I mentioned, they are available from Ibiblio on the link above. The copyright claim is...well...specious at best. But no one really wants to be the one to go to court and prove it. They've been publicly available for more than a year now on the Fred 2.0 site, and they haven't been sued, to my knowledge. Jason On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Nate Vack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Bryan Baldus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One way (as you likely know) (official, expensive) is via The Library of Congress Cataloging Distribution Service: Huh. They claim copyright of these records. I'd somehow thought: 1: The federal government can't hold copyrights 2: As purely factual data, catalog records are conceptually uncopyrightable Anyone who knows more about this than I do know if they're *really* copyrighted, or if it's more of a we're gonna try and say they're copyrighted and hope no one ignores us? Curious, -Nate
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:09 AM, Thomas Dowling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about trademark ownership and permissions for any logo? I'd hate to see any conflict or misunderstanding down the road about who can put the logo on what, who can sell t-shirts with it, etc. Good questions. I might lean towards what Wally said though about this getting a little too organized/corporate if we go that route. I'd like a nice logo because... well... oooh shiny! I'm not that interested in it for branding purposes though. I'd like the main body of code4lib to remain as disorganized as humanly possible (though I think it's fine for all the code4lib projects (the conference, journal, planet, etc.) to organize themselves as much as they like/need). My 2 cents... Kevin -- There are two kinds of people in the world: those who believe there are two kinds of people and those who know better.
Re: [CODE4LIB] LOC Authority Data
As of last update of the LOC authority files, 08-11-2008: Name authority files total 7,161,713 records Subject authority files total 339,144 records http://www.loc.gov/cds/PDFdownloads/csb/index.html informs us American citizens of the quarterly updates for New Subjects, and Replacement Subjects. These Subjects can all be then batch searched and retrieved in OCLC, but that is convoluted, and doesn¹t cover the Names, New or Replacements. Do anyone know of a way of scraping the UPDATES (for both Names and Subjects) for the LC authority files? -- Ya¹aqov Ziso, eResources-Serials, Rowan University 856 256 4804 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 9/29/08 5:01 PM, Andrew Nagy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although note that these are only *subject* authorities. Andrew, I think you may also be looking for name authorities (since I assume this inquiry came from a suspiciously topically similar thread on vufind-tech). Yes - I would love to be able to obtain all authority files. Also, Ed's SKOS data lumps all of the subfields into one string literal, so: Yeah - the marc record has much more data than the rdf file. I haven't explored the indexing process of authority records in detail enough yet to determine if this string munging is a problem or not. Andrew
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo?
I find this debate interesting. In the regular world, whenever there is a revolution somewhere, the new government typically spends insane amounts of energy renaming streets and other symbols. Anyone that's been involve in a website design knows that you'll spend an eternity in font and color hell while elements in desperate need of attention (structure, functionality, etc) are ignored. At the end of the day, it is the substance of code4lib that makes it what it is. Logos, committees, and the like are relevant, but it's important not to get too caught up in internal dynamics. I suspect that hardly anyone will notice whether the code4lib logo is totally fly or if it sucks. Consider ACM. The name is an anachronism. The logo is as boring as it gets. Yet they do all right. However, symbols and external perceptions are sometimes important. If that weren't true, bottled water companies wouldn't be nearly as successful as they are. kyle
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo?
2-3 colors max++ --- David Cloutman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electronic Services Librarian Marin County Free Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [Amanda Hartman] Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 1:45 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo? Before hiring a professional, I suggest we tap into our own resources first. I personally have designed several logos for companies and websites (in some cases I was even paid!), but am by no means professionally trained, nor do I consider myself a professional graphic designer. I would bet that there are others in this community that are similarly talented, or have similarly talented students/colleagues. If one person would be interested in taking submissions and putting them on a webpage to tally votes, we could all have a say. If this route proves unsuccessful, then hiring a professional would certainly be an option. Either way, there should be a few guidelines predetermined (to make things easier for everyone involved) such as file format and size. I typically suggest logos be 2 or 3 colors max, not including negative space. Since I'm new to the community, are there any colors/fonts that are used/preferred, or is this branding a grounds-up sort of operation? :) Amanda __ Amanda Hartman, MLIS, Digital Services Librarian J. Sargeant Reynolds Community College 1651 East Parham Road Parham Campus Library, Richmond VA 23228 Phone: (804) 523-5226 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: www.amandahartman.com -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Karen Schneider Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 7:32 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo? I agree on the need for branding, and on offering the community several professionally-developed choices. I worded that carefully. I'd like to see a professionally-designed logo for the same reason I like to watch good software developers at work: the quality of effort doth pleaseth the citizens. I'd like to see Code4Lib to have a logo that reflects the quality of the people associated with its loose sovereignty. Branding means a lot, and it tells many stories. Without waxing prolix about those stories (though I'll be happy to do that if anyone's interested in further justification for my argument), I'll move on to say a little room for bubble-up efforts would also be apropos. You never know who's out there or what they are possible of. (Oh Brad, you guys can't write an *ILS.*) My take would be that if we have the resources, to offer the community several choices from an entity whose business it is to design logos, yet encourage write-ins. -- | Karen G. Schneider | Community Librarian | Equinox Software Inc. The Evergreen Experts | Toll-free: 1.877.Open.ILS (1.877.673.6457) x712 | E-Mail/AIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Web: http://www.esilibrary.com On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 12:04 AM, Edward M. Corrado [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I am all for a logo, but I also agree with Kevin it needs to be a community based decision. I'm also not sold that we need a professional designed logo, but I'm not against it either. I can understand why a business would not want to leave it to amateurs (although I have seen some great logos created by design school students) but I'm not sure what a professional logo would give us that a community derived one wouldn't. Roy, what do you think that would be that would gain by using a professional logo company? Edward - actually wearing a code4lib conference t-shirt right now On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Carol Bean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, looking at Software Freedom Day, which has somehow managed to get itself a logo with virtually no organizational infrastructure, I don't see why Code4Lib shouldn't. I suspect their logo design wasn't done by amateurs, however, even if they were volunteers. Of course they have a much larger, global base of volunteers... I think it's a cool idea. Carol On Sep 19, 2008, at 11:39 PM, Kevin S. Clarke wrote: I like the idea. A real logo would be nice. My one caveat is I'd still like everyone who'd like to have a voice to have one (I like voting). I'd be less in favor of a committee of volunteers to make the decision. I don't know how that would work with a professional graphic designer though. Could they give us several options and open it up to a vote? Kevin On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 11:29 PM, Roy Tennant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was in the middle of writing a blog post about Code4Lib going regional when it hit me -- here we have this incredibly successful brand and yet we lack a t-shirt. But I guess we lack a t-shirt because we lack a logo to put on it. The closest we get are the items that decorate our web site. Are we at the point where we're ready to establish an official graphic identity,
Re: [CODE4LIB] LOC Authority Data
Actually, I'm pretty sure a phone book is not, in the US, in general, copyrightable. I don't believe US law has any special protection for collections of facts. The canonical introductory intellectual property class example, which happens to be about a phone book in fact, is Feist v. Rural Telephone Service. Which in fact even has it's own wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_v._Rural Jonathan Shawn Boyette wrote: Individual facts or datum are not copyrightable, but collections of facts -- particular expressions of data -- are. This is what makes phone books, databases, and the like subject to copyright. P.S. N.B. IANAL On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Jonathan Rochkind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interestingly, outside the US it's somewhat more possible to claim copyright on factual data than inside the US, Europe for instance has types of IP and copyright protection for databases that the US does not. But basically, the answer is that nobody knows for sure, not even the lawyers. Jonathan Bryan Baldus wrote: On Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:17 PM, Nate Vack wrote: Huh. They claim copyright of these records. I'd somehow thought: 1: The federal government can't hold copyrights The page [1] states: Copyright Records in the MARC Distribution Services originating with the Library of Congress are copyrighted by the Library of Congress for use outside the United States. Subscribers are granted copyright permission to selectively redistribute records outside the United States; contact LC prior to any distribution. So, in the U.S., they are not copyrightable, but outside the U.S. some copyright claim might be justified. 2: As purely factual data, catalog records are conceptually uncopyrightable For the most part, personally I would agree with this, at least for individual records (though some parts of the record, like the 520 summaries, might contain enough original creativity that could be considered copyrightable). Others might believe otherwise, at least as it pertains to the collection of the records as a whole--for example, OCLC's copyright claims on their database of records. ## On the Fred 2.0 records, aside from their age, I wish they were available in MARC 21 format rather than XML with NFC encoding. When I tried to use MarcEdit to convert the files from XML to MARC 21 (January 2007), I ran into issues with character encodings. The files also seemed to lack header lines like: ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? collection xmlns=http://www.loc.gov/MARC21/slim; [1] http://www.loc.gov/cds/mds.html#lcaf Thank you for your assistance, Bryan Baldus Cataloger Quality Books Inc. The Best of America's Independent Presses 1-800-323-4241x402 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Jonathan Rochkind Digital Services Software Engineer The Sheridan Libraries Johns Hopkins University 410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu -- Jonathan Rochkind Digital Services Software Engineer The Sheridan Libraries Johns Hopkins University 410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo
In my experience, good brands accurately represent the organizational nature of the entities they represent. IMHO, as disorganized as humanly possible, isn't such a bad place to start. :) --- David Cloutman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electronic Services Librarian Marin County Free Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin S. Clarke Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 1:52 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Logo On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:09 AM, Thomas Dowling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about trademark ownership and permissions for any logo? I'd hate to see any conflict or misunderstanding down the road about who can put the logo on what, who can sell t-shirts with it, etc. Good questions. I might lean towards what Wally said though about this getting a little too organized/corporate if we go that route. I'd like a nice logo because... well... oooh shiny! I'm not that interested in it for branding purposes though. I'd like the main body of code4lib to remain as disorganized as humanly possible (though I think it's fine for all the code4lib projects (the conference, journal, planet, etc.) to organize themselves as much as they like/need). My 2 cents... Kevin -- There are two kinds of people in the world: those who believe there are two kinds of people and those who know better. Email Disclaimer: http://www.co.marin.ca.us/nav/misc/EmailDisclaimer.cfm
Re: [CODE4LIB] LOC Authority Data
Nathan Vack wrote: So, wait: A bunch of libraries could pool together, buy the Whole Enchilada for $28k, and put up a torrent? I thought I remembered something about Casey Bisson doing exactly that with a grant/award he received? I forget what happened to it. A snapshot would just be a snapshot of course, it wouldn't include records created or modified after the snapshot. Jonathan
Re: [CODE4LIB] LOC Authority Data
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Jonathan Rochkind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought I remembered something about Casey Bisson doing exactly that with a grant/award he received? I forget what happened to it. A snapshot would just be a snapshot of course, it wouldn't include records created or modified after the snapshot. That was the bibliographic records which he purchased and donated to the Internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/details/marc_records_scriblio_net They are also available via a torrent: http://torrents.code4lib.org/ It definitely would be nice to do the same thing for the authority data. It's kind of absurd to me that this data isn't already in the public domain, since it's uh in the public domain. But what do I know, I'm not a lawyer. //Ed
