Re: 2008.08 - First Impressions
Dale Maggee wrote: Firstly, it's *gorgeous* - eyecandy city! I *really* like the look and feel of it! It's much more friendly and less 'clunky' feeling than 2007.2. Hmm.. let's just say I'm impressed by how good Qtopia on X11 actually performs. Some of the earlier snapshots were really slow, but this is acceptable. The graphical installer is great! I really like this, although I agree with the opinion stated elsewhere that the text is too big, and I'd really like to see the 'description' text on the package details screen, so that I know what the package is (names aren't always that informative). So you don't think it should be usable without a stylus? * keyboard - Predictive text is annoying as hell. Agreed. There seem to be some kind of interface nazism (to quote Thorvalds) going on. Apart from the predictive keyboard being *really* annoying - especially if you are typing URL's, shell commands or a non-english language!! then I don't understand this idea that there can't be a bring-up-the-keyboard button. (yes I know I can install a qwerty-button). For me the correct way is like qtopia: * Have a bring-up-the-keyboard button * Have change-input-method option * Have a set of different keyboards (multitap,full qwerty,handwriting,om2008-like) to toggle between. * Be able to turn predictive keyboard OFF ... and for goods sake... don't make a keyboard without a delete key. - I'd like to see letters on the numeric keypad screen. For example, the PIN on my sim card is a word typed using the numbers on my phone keypad, not a number - I have no idea what the numbers in my PIN are! in order to enter my pin using this numpad, I have to get out my nokia and look at it's keypad and then type in the numbers. Arhh... go write it down, then. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.08 - First Impressions
The graphical installer is great! I really like this, although I agree with the opinion stated elsewhere that the text is too big, and I'd really like to see the 'description' text on the package details screen, so that I know what the package is (names aren't always that informative). So you don't think it should be usable without a stylus? Not really, I don't see a need - Installing software is not something you're going to be doing five times a day while on the train on the way to work. Sure, you _might_ use it once a day, but i think for that one time you can fumble around and find your stylus. And even if you are installing software 5 times a day, on the train and have lost your stylus, you can always use your keys ;) The letters on the keyboard are smaller than the text in the installer, and they're pressable with fingers. I didn't say the text should be small, just not so enormous! * keyboard - Predictive text is annoying as hell. Agreed. There seem to be some kind of interface nazism (to quote Thorvalds) going on. Apart from the predictive keyboard being *really* annoying - especially if you are typing URL's, shell commands or a non-english language!! then I don't understand this idea that there can't be a bring-up-the-keyboard button. (yes I know I can install a qwerty-button). For me the correct way is like qtopia: * Have a bring-up-the-keyboard button * Have change-input-method option * Have a set of different keyboards (multitap,full qwerty,handwriting,om2008-like) to toggle between. * Be able to turn predictive keyboard OFF ... and for goods sake... don't make a keyboard without a delete key. Yeah, well put. It's not just the predictive text either when typing URLs. for example, typing in my mail server was *horrible* - - i type 'mail', then tap the word 'mail' to insert it into the textbox - then I stroke down until I get to the screen with the period, then i press that, then i tap the period at the top to put it in the textbox. - this inserts a space after mail., so i have to position the cursor after the space and stroke left for backspace, then reposition the cursor at the end of the line. - then I stroke up a couple of times to get back to qwerty - then I type internode, but internode isn't in the dictionary so I have to type and tap on 'inter' - then I repeat the space erasure procedure. - then I type type 'node', click on 'node' - then I repeat space erasure procedure. - then I have to type 'on.net' using this same painfull process. and these are all dictionary words! multiply the annoyance by 2 seconds for each keypress if your mailserver / URL isn't made up of dictionary words! :O compare this with 21 stylus taps using the matchbox keyboard. and this isn't even a particularly difficult thing to be typing! I think the real solution to make everybody happy will be a set of different keyboards: a multitap-type keypad like on a phone, a stylus-friendly full qwerty keyboard like matchbox keyboard, and a finger-friendly, multi-mode qwerty keyboard like the one we have (with an option to turn off the predictive text), aimed primarily at finger-friendly texting. - I'd like to see letters on the numeric keypad screen. For example, the PIN on my sim card is a word typed using the numbers on my phone keypad, not a number - I have no idea what the numbers in my PIN are! in order to enter my pin using this numpad, I have to get out my nokia and look at it's keypad and then type in the numbers. Arhh... go write it down, then. So, just to be clear, you're telling me that I should totally void any security which this pin provides by writing it down? If I'm going to do that, I might as well just disable the PIN. I did say 'I'd like to see', not OMFG THIS IS THE WORST!. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.08 - First Impressions
Thanks for your impression. Really helpful in deciding NOT to install this. I am pretty amazed you claim that the OM team have made a big leap forward and also saying this version still has issues with the basic functionality of the phone.. Power management, calling, sms and intuitive entering of text without stylus should be the main focus. The rest can follow later (even GPS). Of course this is not a fact, it is just my opinion. Overall, I think that openmoko have made a *big* leap forward with 2008.08, keep up the great work! -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community = Aconcagua Expedition with Alpine Ascents Aconcagua Expedition with America's Guide Service. International expeditions to the world's highest peaks. Comprehensive mountaineering school. The Seven Summits Company since 1986. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=9b35cc99a796487659e031c2859d46a8 -- Powered by Outblaze ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.08 - First Impressions
ted braak wrote: Thanks for your impression. Really helpful in deciding NOT to install this. I am pretty amazed you claim that the OM team have made a big leap forward and also saying this version still has issues with the basic functionality of the phone.. Power management, calling, sms and intuitive entering of text without stylus should be the main focus. The rest can follow later (even GPS). Of course this is not a fact, it is just my opinion. Haha, That was written within very shortly after installing it. Since then, the 'annoyances' have elevated themselves to 'extreme frustrations', and I've become thoroughly disenfranchised with it - I'm restoring my FR back to 2007.2 as I type this... I maintain that the interface at least is a big leap forward - it's very slick and pretty, and it shows alot of promise - once the bugs have been worked out to the point where it's on par with 2007.2 for stability, and something has been done about the *awful* keyboard, I'll happily go back to it. In the meantime, though, a pretty-looking paperweight has the same functionality as an ugly looking one - I'll take usability over eyecandy any day... In my opinion, your opinion is spot on - eyecandy is all well and good but making the thing work should be a much higher priority. -D ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.08 - First Impressions
Not really, I don't see a need - Installing software is not something you're going to be doing five times a day while on the train on the way to work. So? What if I want to install software at least once or twice a week, do I have to have a stylus around all the time? Sure, you _might_ use it once a day, but i think for that one time you can fumble around and find your stylus. And even if you are installing software 5 times a day, on the train and have lost your stylus, you can always use your keys ;) Bah, this is really terrible thinking. Whats wrong with making a purely finger-friendly interface, besides laziness? Its not the 90's, stylus-based computing is not cool. The rest of the world is going multi-touch, no accessories required. We ought to at least keep up. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.08 - First Impressions
Bah, this is really terrible thinking. Whats wrong with making a purely finger-friendly interface, besides laziness? screen real estate. i might be wrong but i imagine finger friendly with large buttons and so on, taking up a lot of space. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008.08 - First Impressions
screen real estate. i might be wrong but i imagine finger friendly with large buttons and so on, taking up a lot of space. i don't think so, but thats just me. there is a lot that can be done with overlays and sliders and so on that just isn't being done. but enough complaints, off i go to try to do some nice GUI that shows the nerds how things are done .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
2008.08 - First Impressions
I've been playing with 2008.08 for a little while now, and I thought I'd share some first impressions. Firstly, it's *gorgeous* - eyecandy city! I *really* like the look and feel of it! It's much more friendly and less 'clunky' feeling than 2007.2. I had a couple of issues on first boot - It seemed _very_ slow - I'm talking 5-10 seconds between me pressing something and getting any feedback on the keypad at the PIN entry screen. After a reboot this seems to have gone away. Also I find the default sleep time painfully short, and I don't think it should go straight into sleep - there should be a period where it dims / turns off the screen but doesn't actually sleep, like in 2007.2 The graphical installer is great! I really like this, although I agree with the opinion stated elsewhere that the text is too big, and I'd really like to see the 'description' text on the package details screen, so that I know what the package is (names aren't always that informative). Pet peeves / suggestions: * Power management - still doesn't work properly - exactly the same problem as 2007.2 - the phone wakes up when a call comes in, but doesn't make any noise. If I answer the phone, I can't hear the other person and they can't hear me. This leave me with two options - turn off power management, or be prepared to reboot the phone and call people back, neither of which is particularly good. * keyboard - Predictive text is annoying as hell. I really don't think this is neccessary for a qwerty keyboard. I love the predictive text on my nokia phone that I have for work, but it only has a numeric keypad. The whole point of qwerty IMHO is being able to type quickly, and the predictive text just seems to get in the way of this. There should at least be a way to turn off the predictive text. also I find the way it automatically inserts spaces frustrating - it took me *far* to long to enter the address of my mail server when setting it up for email - the lack of consistent copy and paste also attributed to this. - I'd like to see letters on the numeric keypad screen. For example, the PIN on my sim card is a word typed using the numbers on my phone keypad, not a number - I have no idea what the numbers in my PIN are! in order to enter my pin using this numpad, I have to get out my nokia and look at it's keypad and then type in the numbers. I also think that the conventional numpad layout (123 \n 456 \n 789 \n *0#) would make it easier to use, although this may just take a bit of time to adapt to.. - Enter Key - I'd really like to see an enter key on the qwerty keyboard, in addition to getting rid of the predictive text. This would make using the terminal MUCH easier. I'd also like to see a period and hyphen on the qwerty keyboard, for the same reasons (would vastly improve using the terminal). * The clock should be an application, not hidden away in settings * Installer should be in settings, I don't really think it needs to be on the home screen * using the Aux button for lock is nice, but I think it should be harder to unlock - there's a chance (admittedly small) that aux might get pressed in my pocket. Personally, I really liked the screen lock on 2007.2, where you had to drag one icon onto the other - I thought that this was a novel and very functional unlock mechanism. * The home screen needs a way to set up categories/ folders - I can see it getting *very* cluttered if I install alot of applications Overall, I think that openmoko have made a *big* leap forward with 2008.08, keep up the great work! -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
