Re: [cryptography] D-Wave Sells First Quantum Computer

[lodewijk andré de la porte]

May I forumulate Lewis' first law:
As a discussion amoungst computer scientists continues the propability of
the P != NP problem being mentioned tends to to 1.

Or was this a law already? It seems familliar.

-Lodewijk "Lewis" André de la Porte
On May 29, 2011 4:25 AM, "Nathan Loofbourrow"  wrote:
> On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 7:05 PM, James A. Donald 
wrote:
>
>> On 28/05/11 03:37, James A. Donald wrote:
>>
>>> What can be said is that the class of problems soluble by a quantum
 computer
 is larger than the class of problems soluble by a classical computer.

>>>
>> On 2011-05-29 9:01 AM, David-Sarah Hopwood wrote:
>>
>>> No, it can't:
>>>
>>> - for idealized quantum and classical computers (with unbounded memory
>>> running for unbounded time), those classes are identical.
>>>
>>> - for quantum and classical computers that can be practically built at
>>> any
>>> point in time, and with a limit on the time to find a solution, it
>>> certainly isn't clear that the class of problems soluble by quantum
>>> computers will be larger (ever). That depends on how big and fast you
>>> can make quantum computers and classical computers.
>>>
>>
>> What can be said is that the class of problems soluble by a quantum
>> computer with a polynomially large number of components in polynomial
time
>> is larger than the class of problems soluble by a classical computer with
a
>> polynomially large number of components in polynomial time.
>
>
> Wait, was P!=NP proven and I missed it? I thought it was merely an
assertion
> with overwhelming evidence, but no formal proof.
>
> n
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Re: [cryptography] D-Wave Sells First Quantum Computer

[Nathan Loofbourrow]

On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 7:05 PM, James A. Donald  wrote:

> On 28/05/11 03:37, James A. Donald wrote:
>
>> What can be said is that the class of problems soluble by a quantum
>>> computer
>>> is larger than the class of problems soluble by a classical computer.
>>>
>>
> On 2011-05-29 9:01 AM, David-Sarah Hopwood wrote:
>
>> No, it can't:
>>
>>  - for idealized quantum and classical computers (with unbounded memory
>>running for unbounded time), those classes are identical.
>>
>>  - for quantum and classical computers that can be practically built at
>> any
>>point in time, and with a limit on the time to find a solution, it
>>certainly isn't clear that the class of problems soluble by quantum
>>computers will be larger (ever). That depends on how big and fast you
>>can make quantum computers and classical computers.
>>
>
> What can be said is that the class of problems soluble by a quantum
> computer with a polynomially large number of components in polynomial time
> is larger than the class of problems soluble by a classical computer with a
> polynomially large number of components in polynomial time.


Wait, was P!=NP proven and I missed it? I thought it was merely an assertion
with overwhelming evidence, but no formal proof.

n
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Re: [cryptography] D-Wave Sells First Quantum Computer

[James A. Donald]

On 28/05/11 03:37, James A. Donald wrote:

What can be said is that the class of problems soluble by a quantum computer
is larger than the class of problems soluble by a classical computer.


On 2011-05-29 9:01 AM, David-Sarah Hopwood wrote:

No, it can't:

  - for idealized quantum and classical computers (with unbounded memory
running for unbounded time), those classes are identical.

  - for quantum and classical computers that can be practically built at any
point in time, and with a limit on the time to find a solution, it
certainly isn't clear that the class of problems soluble by quantum
computers will be larger (ever). That depends on how big and fast you
can make quantum computers and classical computers.


What can be said is that the class of problems soluble by a quantum 
computer with a polynomially large number of components in polynomial 
time is larger than the class of problems soluble by a classical 
computer with a polynomially large number of components in polynomial time.

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Re: [cryptography] D-Wave Sells First Quantum Computer

[David-Sarah Hopwood]

On 28/05/11 03:37, James A. Donald wrote:
> On 2011-05-27 8:24 PM, Jean-Philippe Aumasson wrote:
>> "researchers have constructed special examples of optimization
>> problems where quantum annealing reaches the global optimum
>> exponentially faster than classical simulated annealing.  But on the
>> other hand, they�ve constructed other examples where quantum annealing
>> is just as slow as classical simulated annealing, both of them getting
>> trapped in local optima!"
> 
> What can be said is that the class of problems soluble by a quantum computer
> is larger than the class of problems soluble by a classical computer.

No, it can't:

 - for idealized quantum and classical computers (with unbounded memory
   running for unbounded time), those classes are identical.

 - for quantum and classical computers that can be practically built at any
   point in time, and with a limit on the time to find a solution, it
   certainly isn't clear that the class of problems soluble by quantum
   computers will be larger (ever). That depends on how big and fast you
   can make quantum computers and classical computers.

-- 
David-Sarah Hopwood ⚥ http://davidsarah.livejournal.com



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Re: [cryptography] D-Wave Sells First Quantum Computer

[lodewijk andré de la porte]

This explaination is the first that really makes sense. Thanks.

(although there is future in quantum computing as in bits with >2 possible
values. This is not a "general computing" quantum computer.)

2011/5/28 Mark Avrum Gubrud 

> Lockheed will use the D-Wave device to conduct further "research" on
> contract to the USG (DoD, DHS, IC) under classification (D-wave is I believe
> a Canadian company) which will serve to further cover up its uselessness.
>  They may also use it to spice up marketing for their security services,
> since D-Wave is claiming they can use it to generate "software" for image
> recognition.  Lockheed can then say they make use of 'advanced quantum
> computing, an industry first, to generate algorithms for target
> recognition.'  That should certainly help do the trick when the customers
> are military, government and corporate bureaucrats and politicians.
>
> - Forwarded message from Jean-Philippe Aumasson <
> jeanphilippe.aumas...@gmail.com> -
>
> From: Jean-Philippe Aumasson 
> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:24:24 +0200
> To: Crypto discussion list 
> Subject: Re: [cryptography] D-Wave Sells First Quantum Computer
> Reply-To: Crypto discussion list 
>
> Scott Aaronson's take on D-wave quantum computer and recent Nature paper:
>
> http://blogs.forbes.com/alexknapp/2011/05/24/q-and-a-with-prof-scott-aaronson-on-d-waves-quantum-computer/
>
> Excerpts:
>
> "they?re not claiming a ?quantum speedup? ? i.e., to solve some actual
> computational problem faster using quantum coherence.  They?re just
> claiming an observation of the sorts of quantum effects that would be
> a prerequisite to such a speedup"
>
> "researchers have constructed special examples of optimization
> problems where quantum annealing reaches the global optimum
> exponentially faster than classical simulated annealing.  But on the
> other hand, they?ve constructed other examples where quantum annealing
> is just as slow as classical simulated annealing, both of them getting
> trapped in local optima!"
>
> "any claims by D-Wave that the practical value of quantum annealing
> has already been demonstrated need to be taken with a huge grain of
> salt"
>
>
>
>
> 2011/5/27 lodewijk andr? de la porte :
> > Any word on the kind of processing power this thing is? It really does
> sound
> > like the future, with it's supercooled processor 'n all. They state the
> > price is "consistent with large-scal,high-performance computing systems"
> > whatever that means, could it possibly be worthwhile?
> > From wikipedia:
> >>
> >> quantum annealing?(QA) is a general method for finding the?global
> >> minimum?of a given?objective function?over a given set of?candidate
> >> solutions?(the?search space), by a process analogous to?quantum
> >> fluctuations.
> >
> > Which makes it quite usable, to my suprise.
> > In 30 years I'll have one at home. Not to worry.
> > Best regards,
> > Lodewijk
> >
> > 2011/5/27 James A. Donald 
> >>
> >> On 2011-05-27 4:28 PM, Danilo Gligoroski wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I am among skeptics that quantum computers will break RSA1024 or
> ECDSA160
> >>> in the next 35 years, but maybe I have to revise my views.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> http://www.hpcwire.com/hpcwire/2011-05-26/d-wave_sells_first_quantum_computer.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wednesday, D-Wave Systems made history by announcing the sale of the
> >>> world's first commercial quantum computer. The buyer was Lockheed
> Martin
> >>> Corporation, who will use the machine to help solve some of their "most
> >>> challenging computation problems." ...
> >>>
> >>> ... D-Wave One uses a superconducting 128-qubit (quantum bit) chip,
> >>> called Rainier, representing the first commercial implementation of a
> >>> quantum processor. An early prototype, a 16-qubit system called Orion,
> was
> >>> demonstrated in February 2007. At the time, D-Wave was talking about
> future
> >>> systems based on 512-qubit and 1024-qubit technology, but the 128-qubit
> >>> Rainier turned out to be the company's first foray into the commercial
> >>> market. ...
> >>
> >> 128 quantum bits sounds like a lot, but it is less than it seems,
> because
> >> this is not a general purpose quantum computer, though it can emmulate a
> >> general purpo

Re: [cryptography] D-Wave Sells First Quantum Computer

[James A. Donald]

On 2011-05-27 8:24 PM, Jean-Philippe Aumasson wrote:

"researchers have constructed special examples of optimization
problems where quantum annealing reaches the global optimum
exponentially faster than classical simulated annealing.  But on the
other hand, they�ve constructed other examples where quantum annealing
is just as slow as classical simulated annealing, both of them getting
trapped in local optima!"


What can be said is that the class of problems soluble by a quantum 
computer is larger than the class of problems soluble by a classical 
computer.


How much larger is an empirical question.
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Re: [cryptography] D-Wave Sells First Quantum Computer

[Jean-Philippe Aumasson]

Scott Aaronson's take on D-wave quantum computer and recent Nature paper:
http://blogs.forbes.com/alexknapp/2011/05/24/q-and-a-with-prof-scott-aaronson-on-d-waves-quantum-computer/

Excerpts:

"they’re not claiming a “quantum speedup” — i.e., to solve some actual
computational problem faster using quantum coherence.  They’re just
claiming an observation of the sorts of quantum effects that would be
a prerequisite to such a speedup"

"researchers have constructed special examples of optimization
problems where quantum annealing reaches the global optimum
exponentially faster than classical simulated annealing.  But on the
other hand, they’ve constructed other examples where quantum annealing
is just as slow as classical simulated annealing, both of them getting
trapped in local optima!"

"any claims by D-Wave that the practical value of quantum annealing
has already been demonstrated need to be taken with a huge grain of
salt"




2011/5/27 lodewijk andré de la porte :
> Any word on the kind of processing power this thing is? It really does sound
> like the future, with it's supercooled processor 'n all. They state the
> price is "consistent with large-scal,high-performance computing systems"
> whatever that means, could it possibly be worthwhile?
> From wikipedia:
>>
>> quantum annealing (QA) is a general method for finding the global
>> minimum of a given objective function over a given set of candidate
>> solutions (the search space), by a process analogous to quantum
>> fluctuations.
>
> Which makes it quite usable, to my suprise.
> In 30 years I'll have one at home. Not to worry.
> Best regards,
> Lodewijk
>
> 2011/5/27 James A. Donald 
>>
>> On 2011-05-27 4:28 PM, Danilo Gligoroski wrote:
>>>
>>> I am among skeptics that quantum computers will break RSA1024 or ECDSA160
>>> in the next 35 years, but maybe I have to revise my views.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.hpcwire.com/hpcwire/2011-05-26/d-wave_sells_first_quantum_computer.html
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, D-Wave Systems made history by announcing the sale of the
>>> world's first commercial quantum computer. The buyer was Lockheed Martin
>>> Corporation, who will use the machine to help solve some of their "most
>>> challenging computation problems." ...
>>>
>>> ... D-Wave One uses a superconducting 128-qubit (quantum bit) chip,
>>> called Rainier, representing the first commercial implementation of a
>>> quantum processor. An early prototype, a 16-qubit system called Orion, was
>>> demonstrated in February 2007. At the time, D-Wave was talking about future
>>> systems based on 512-qubit and 1024-qubit technology, but the 128-qubit
>>> Rainier turned out to be the company's first foray into the commercial
>>> market. ...
>>
>> 128 quantum bits sounds like a lot, but it is less than it seems, because
>> this is not a general purpose quantum computer, though it can emmulate a
>> general purpose quantum computer with considerably fewer quantum bits.
>>
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Re: [cryptography] D-Wave Sells First Quantum Computer

[lodewijk andré de la porte]

Any word on the kind of processing power this thing is? It really does sound
like the future, with it's supercooled processor 'n all. They state the
price is "consistent with large-scal,high-performance computing systems"
whatever that means, could it possibly be worthwhile?

>From wikipedia:

> *quantum annealing* (QA) is a general method for finding the global
> minimum  of a given *objective
> function * over a given
> set of *candidate solutions* (the *search space*), by a process analogous
> to quantum fluctuations 
> .


Which makes it quite usable, to my suprise.

In 30 years I'll have one at home. Not to worry.

Best regards,
Lodewijk


2011/5/27 James A. Donald 

> On 2011-05-27 4:28 PM, Danilo Gligoroski wrote:
>
>> I am among skeptics that quantum computers will break RSA1024 or ECDSA160
>> in the next 35 years, but maybe I have to revise my views.
>>
>>
>> http://www.hpcwire.com/hpcwire/2011-05-26/d-wave_sells_first_quantum_computer.html
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, D-Wave Systems made history by announcing the sale of the
>> world's first commercial quantum computer. The buyer was Lockheed Martin
>> Corporation, who will use the machine to help solve some of their "most
>> challenging computation problems." ...
>>
>> ... D-Wave One uses a superconducting 128-qubit (quantum bit) chip, called
>> Rainier, representing the first commercial implementation of a quantum
>> processor. An early prototype, a 16-qubit system called Orion, was
>> demonstrated in February 2007. At the time, D-Wave was talking about future
>> systems based on 512-qubit and 1024-qubit technology, but the 128-qubit
>> Rainier turned out to be the company's first foray into the commercial
>> market. ...
>>
>
> 128 quantum bits sounds like a lot, but it is less than it seems, because
> this is not a general purpose quantum computer, though it can emmulate a
> general purpose quantum computer with considerably fewer quantum bits.
>
>
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Re: [cryptography] D-Wave Sells First Quantum Computer

[James A. Donald]

On 2011-05-27 4:28 PM, Danilo Gligoroski wrote:

I am among skeptics that quantum computers will break RSA1024 or ECDSA160 in 
the next 35 years, but maybe I have to revise my views.

http://www.hpcwire.com/hpcwire/2011-05-26/d-wave_sells_first_quantum_computer.html


On Wednesday, D-Wave Systems made history by announcing the sale of the world's first 
commercial quantum computer. The buyer was Lockheed Martin Corporation, who will use the 
machine to help solve some of their "most challenging computation problems." ...

... D-Wave One uses a superconducting 128-qubit (quantum bit) chip, called 
Rainier, representing the first commercial implementation of a quantum 
processor. An early prototype, a 16-qubit system called Orion, was demonstrated 
in February 2007. At the time, D-Wave was talking about future systems based on 
512-qubit and 1024-qubit technology, but the 128-qubit Rainier turned out to be 
the company's first foray into the commercial market. ...


128 quantum bits sounds like a lot, but it is less than it seems, 
because this is not a general purpose quantum computer, though it can 
emmulate a general purpose quantum computer with considerably fewer 
quantum bits.


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[cryptography] D-Wave Sells First Quantum Computer

[Danilo Gligoroski]

I am among skeptics that quantum computers will break RSA1024 or ECDSA160 in 
the next 35 years, but maybe I have to revise my views.

http://www.hpcwire.com/hpcwire/2011-05-26/d-wave_sells_first_quantum_computer.html


On Wednesday, D-Wave Systems made history by announcing the sale of the world's 
first commercial quantum computer. The buyer was Lockheed Martin Corporation, 
who will use the machine to help solve some of their "most challenging 
computation problems." ...

... D-Wave One uses a superconducting 128-qubit (quantum bit) chip, called 
Rainier, representing the first commercial implementation of a quantum 
processor. An early prototype, a 16-qubit system called Orion, was demonstrated 
in February 2007. At the time, D-Wave was talking about future systems based on 
512-qubit and 1024-qubit technology, but the 128-qubit Rainier turned out to be 
the company's first foray into the commercial market. ...

Regards,
Danilo!


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