Re: [dccp] Question on resetting nominal send time
Hi Eddie, Sorry for the delay in responding. | What follows is a first cut at a solution. Any thoughts from others?? | | If t_ipi is used to schedule transmissions, then the following equation should | be applied each time the application is scheduled: | | t_ipi := max(t_ipi, t_now - RTT/2) | | This never lets t_ipi fall more than 1/2 RTT behind the current time. An | application is still allowed to send packets in a small burst after an idle | period, but the size of that burst is limited to RTT/2 worth of packets. | | RTT/2 was chosen because senders can send 2*last_receive_rate in any RTT. | | I am sure that this simple choice has disadvantages, such as little bursts at | the beginnings of idle periods. One could be more conservative and set e.g. | | t_ipi := max(t_ipi, t_now - t_gran). | | But I think RTT/2 might be OK. Implementation experience would be preferred. | | This issue is really an implementation issue. RFC3448 4.6 is not exactly | normative; it discusses one way to achieve a send rate, not a required | implementation. So in some sense the implementer is free to choose anything | reasonable. In TFRC t_ipi is always smaller than RTT, so RTT/2 is an upper bound. I think it makes sense (from an implementation standpoint) to use one full t_ipi as upper bound. This is similar to your solution in that both values are less than RTT, and both provide a means to stop large `packet storms'. The reason for chosing t_ipi is that the size of the large burst depends on the number of full t_ipi intervals that fit into the time interval that the receiver is lagging behind (can send detailed derivation). But, as said, both choices are similar. Gerrit - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe dccp in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [dccp] Question on resetting nominal send time
Hi Ian, Sorry for the delay in responding. I agree that the t_ipi implementation sketched in RFC3448 Section 4.6 is incomplete with respect to slow applications, idle periods, and the like. :( What follows is a first cut at a solution. Any thoughts from others?? If t_ipi is used to schedule transmissions, then the following equation should be applied each time the application is scheduled: t_ipi := max(t_ipi, t_now - RTT/2) This never lets t_ipi fall more than 1/2 RTT behind the current time. An application is still allowed to send packets in a small burst after an idle period, but the size of that burst is limited to RTT/2 worth of packets. RTT/2 was chosen because senders can send 2*last_receive_rate in any RTT. I am sure that this simple choice has disadvantages, such as little bursts at the beginnings of idle periods. One could be more conservative and set e.g. t_ipi := max(t_ipi, t_now - t_gran). But I think RTT/2 might be OK. Implementation experience would be preferred. This issue is really an implementation issue. RFC3448 4.6 is not exactly normative; it discusses one way to achieve a send rate, not a required implementation. So in some sense the implementer is free to choose anything reasonable. Eddie Ian McDonald wrote: Folks, While Gerrit and I have been refining the CCID3 implementation in Linux we have noticed some issues around packet scheduling. I would like some clarification around this please as I can't find the answers in the RFCs. It may well be that I have just missed something obvious. Section 4.6 of RFC3448 talks about calculating the nominal sending time being the previous nominal sending time plus t_ipi (inter packet interval). The aim of this is to allow an average packet rate per second and section 4.6 explicitly allows bursts of traffic. This generally works well except for two scenarios that I can think of: 1) The application sends at less than the permitted rate. This means that the nominal send time becomes further and further in the past for the current packet. This means we can basically transmit whenever we want until we catch up in time. I would guess that this is not what is intended, particularly as it means it will take time to respond to the beginning of increased loss. 2) The sender becomes idle. However there is no talk of resetting the nominal sending time. So if we are idle for 10 seconds then when we become active again we can send 10 seconds worth of packets instantaneously. I am guessing that this was also not the intent of the RFC authors. Can some clarification please be provided or pointing out what I have missed in the RFCs? I'm guessing there should be some mechanism for resending the nominal send time. Regards, Ian - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe dccp in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [dccp] Question on resetting nominal send time
WHOOPSY! I wrote t_ipi when I meant t_nominal, or whatever symbol you choose for the time the next packet is allowed to be sent. t_ipi should not be changed; it depends on X_inst. Eddie Kohler wrote: If t_ipi is used to schedule transmissions, then the following equation should be applied each time the application is scheduled: t_ipi := max(t_ipi, t_now - RTT/2) SHOULD BE t_nominal := max(t_nominal, t_now - RTT/2) t_ipi := max(t_ipi, t_now - t_gran). SHOULD BE t_nominal := max(t_nominal, t_now - t_gran) Sorry! Eddie - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe dccp in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [dccp] Question on resetting nominal send time
Ian, I can see what you are saying, and indeed this is an interesting problem area, in that it impacts what we understand as correct behaviour, but also impinges on what we may accept as accceptable implementation cost. I'll let others figure out their advice to you... Gorry Ian McDonald wrote: Folks, While Gerrit and I have been refining the CCID3 implementation in Linux we have noticed some issues around packet scheduling. I would like some clarification around this please as I can't find the answers in the RFCs. It may well be that I have just missed something obvious. Section 4.6 of RFC3448 talks about calculating the nominal sending time being the previous nominal sending time plus t_ipi (inter packet interval). The aim of this is to allow an average packet rate per second and section 4.6 explicitly allows bursts of traffic. This generally works well except for two scenarios that I can think of: 1) The application sends at less than the permitted rate. This means that the nominal send time becomes further and further in the past for the current packet. This means we can basically transmit whenever we want until we catch up in time. I would guess that this is not what is intended, particularly as it means it will take time to respond to the beginning of increased loss. 2) The sender becomes idle. However there is no talk of resetting the nominal sending time. So if we are idle for 10 seconds then when we become active again we can send 10 seconds worth of packets instantaneously. I am guessing that this was also not the intent of the RFC authors. Can some clarification please be provided or pointing out what I have missed in the RFCs? I'm guessing there should be some mechanism for resending the nominal send time. Regards, Ian - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe dccp in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
