Bug#1029648: gnome-core 1:43+1 not installable with Pulseaudio
Hello, Le mer. 25 janv. 2023 à 22:13, Simon McVittie a écrit : > > Pipewire maintainers: do you have an opinion on whether gnome-core should > return to depending on the individual dependencies of pipewire-audio, > rather than on the metapackage? I intentionally marked pipewire-audio in conflict with pulseaudio even if there is no technical reason for that (here I have both pulseaudio and pipewire-pulse installed without any issue). The reason of this metapackage and its conflict with pulseaudio is because for different reasons, users complained and filled bugs about broken configs. The origins of these broken configs are differents and not related to the pipewire packages. For example, it could be because they didn't install the recommended packages (wireplumber without pipewire-pulse), or because some packages where pinned leading to a non-functional combination of packages. Some others followed outdated guides from random websites to switch from pulseaudio to pipewire with as result weird conflicts with pulseaudio. The aim of this package is to avoid common users mistakes leading to no audio. I am annoyed for them since pipewire-pulse just works but because I have limited time, I cannot figure what they did wrong for all of them. I don't have a strong opinion whether gnome-core should depend on pipewire-audio or on individual dependencies. If they follow the recommendation an upgrade from Bullseye to Bookworm without having to conflict on pulseaudio will work correctly. So, maybe would be better to have gnome-core not depending on pipewire-audio to not hurt users who still want to use pulseausio leaving optional pipewire-audio (and its conflict with pulseaudio). After all, users complaining about a pkg conflicts between pipewire and pulseaudio had no real reason (excepted [1]) to keep both installed just because I guess they were a bit prudent about this transition. [1] https://bugs.debian.org/1029377#20 > I'm not sure that I understand why pipewire-alsa and pipewire-audio need > to conflict with pulseaudio. Would it be sufficient to rename > /etc/alsa/conf.d/99-pipewire-default.conf to sort later than 99-pulse.conf, > or ask the pulseaudio maintainers to rename /etc/alsa/conf.d/99-pulse.conf > to sort slightly earlier? That would restore the older behaviour in which > installing both pulseaudio and the equivalent of pipewire-audio is possible, > and Pipewire "wins"? Yes, that is correct. It's not implemented just because nobody asked for it. > On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 15:10:52 -0500, Rann Bar-On wrote: > > I think this is a probem! > >> Please clarify why this is a problem? > > Given the above, my opinion has changed. We are lacking pedagogy on that. Not sure how we can communicate more on the pulseaudio to pipewire transition. At least, I will have to refresh the Debian pipewire wiki page before the release of Bookworm. > Maybe. I prefer cleaning up packages, so if something is inactive by > necessity, I think it should be removed. This is solved by the (optional?) pipewire-audio package which will ensure that pulseaudio is removed. Best regards, Dylan
Bug#1029648: gnome-core 1:43+1 not installable with Pulseaudio
On 1/25/23 16:12, Simon McVittie wrote: On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 15:10:52 -0500, Rann Bar-On wrote: gnome-core 43+1 depends on pipewire-audio, which conflicts with pulseaudio, making gnome-core uninstallable with pulseaudio. It is intentional that the default audio setup for GNOME is Pipewire, and it is intentional that users upgrading from Debian 11 to 12 should usually get PulseAudio replaced by Pipewire during that upgrade (see #1020249). Ah! I was not aware of this. It continues to be possible to run GNOME without installing gnome-core, by installing gnome-session (which is the minimal GNOME session) and whatever applications you want to run: for example, you could install all of the dependencies of gnome-core except for pipewire-audio if that's what you want, and that would be a valid way to configure a system. I don't know whether it's intentional that it is no longer possible to install gnome-core and pulseaudio together. Pipewire maintainers: do you have an opinion on whether gnome-core should return to depending on the individual dependencies of pipewire-audio, rather than on the metapackage? I'm not sure that I understand why pipewire-alsa and pipewire-audio need to conflict with pulseaudio. Would it be sufficient to rename /etc/alsa/conf.d/99-pipewire-default.conf to sort later than 99-pulse.conf, or ask the pulseaudio maintainers to rename /etc/alsa/conf.d/99-pulse.conf to sort slightly earlier? That would restore the older behaviour in which installing both pulseaudio and the equivalent of pipewire-audio is possible, and Pipewire "wins"? I think this is a probem! Please clarify why this is a problem? Given the above, my opinion has changed. If there are reasons why you need to continue to use pulseaudio instead of pipewire-pulse's implementation of a PulseAudio-compatible audio server, please report them as bugs or feature requests in pipewire-pulse. Did you previously have pipewire-pulse installed? If yes, how did you arrange to avoid it taking precedence over pulseaudio? (If the answer is that you were previously using pipewire-pulse as your audio service, you were no longer running pulseaudio, and you hadn't noticed any difference, then that is pipewire-pulse working as intended!) This is exactly what happened! Nice job making me completely oblivious to this change! I can see that requiring apt to figure out that it can remove pulseaudio during upgrades might be problematic, since apt is often reluctant to remove packages, and for that reason it might be better if we could find a solution where leaving pulseaudio installed and inactive is possible. Maybe. I prefer cleaning up packages, so if something is inactive by necessity, I think it should be removed. Thanks, smcv -- -- Rann Bar-On he/him/his
Bug#1029648: gnome-core 1:43+1 not installable with Pulseaudio
On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 15:10:52 -0500, Rann Bar-On wrote: > gnome-core 43+1 depends on pipewire-audio, which conflicts with > pulseaudio, making gnome-core uninstallable with pulseaudio. It is intentional that the default audio setup for GNOME is Pipewire, and it is intentional that users upgrading from Debian 11 to 12 should usually get PulseAudio replaced by Pipewire during that upgrade (see #1020249). It continues to be possible to run GNOME without installing gnome-core, by installing gnome-session (which is the minimal GNOME session) and whatever applications you want to run: for example, you could install all of the dependencies of gnome-core except for pipewire-audio if that's what you want, and that would be a valid way to configure a system. I don't know whether it's intentional that it is no longer possible to install gnome-core and pulseaudio together. Pipewire maintainers: do you have an opinion on whether gnome-core should return to depending on the individual dependencies of pipewire-audio, rather than on the metapackage? I'm not sure that I understand why pipewire-alsa and pipewire-audio need to conflict with pulseaudio. Would it be sufficient to rename /etc/alsa/conf.d/99-pipewire-default.conf to sort later than 99-pulse.conf, or ask the pulseaudio maintainers to rename /etc/alsa/conf.d/99-pulse.conf to sort slightly earlier? That would restore the older behaviour in which installing both pulseaudio and the equivalent of pipewire-audio is possible, and Pipewire "wins"? > I think this is a probem! Please clarify why this is a problem? If there are reasons why you need to continue to use pulseaudio instead of pipewire-pulse's implementation of a PulseAudio-compatible audio server, please report them as bugs or feature requests in pipewire-pulse. Did you previously have pipewire-pulse installed? If yes, how did you arrange to avoid it taking precedence over pulseaudio? (If the answer is that you were previously using pipewire-pulse as your audio service, you were no longer running pulseaudio, and you hadn't noticed any difference, then that is pipewire-pulse working as intended!) I can see that requiring apt to figure out that it can remove pulseaudio during upgrades might be problematic, since apt is often reluctant to remove packages, and for that reason it might be better if we could find a solution where leaving pulseaudio installed and inactive is possible. Thanks, smcv
Bug#1029648: gnome-core 1:43+1 not installable with Pulseaudio
Package: gnome-core Version: 1:43+1 Severity: important X-Debbugs-Cc: baronr...@gmail.com Dear Maintainer, gnome-core 43+1 depends on pipewire-audio, which conflicts with pulseaudio, making gnome-core uninstallable with pulseaudio. I think this is a probem! Previous version of gnome-core (42+8) depended on pipewire-pulse instead. This might be a pipewire dependency bug, I'm not sure. -- System Information: Debian Release: bookworm/sid APT prefers unstable APT policy: (1000, 'unstable'), (500, 'unstable-debug'), (500, 'testing-debug'), (500, 'stable-updates'), (500, 'stable-security'), (500, 'proposed-updates'), (500, 'stable'), (100, 'testing'), (1, 'experimental-debug'), (1, 'experimental') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Kernel: Linux 6.0.0-6-amd64 (SMP w/4 CPU threads; PREEMPT) Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8), LANGUAGE not set Shell: /bin/sh linked to /usr/bin/dash Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system) LSM: AppArmor: enabled Versions of packages gnome-core depends on: ii adwaita-icon-theme43-1 ii at-spi2-core 2.46.0-4 ii baobab43.0-1 ii dconf-cli 0.40.0-4 ii dconf-gsettings-backend 0.40.0-4 ii eog 43.2-1 ii evince43.1-2+b1 ii evolution-data-server 3.46.3-1 ii fonts-cantarell 0.303.1-1 ii gdm3 43.0-1 ii gkbd-capplet 3.28.1-1 ii glib-networking 2.74.0-2 ii gnome-backgrounds 43-1 ii gnome-bluetooth-sendto42.5-2 ii gnome-calculator 1:43.0.1-2 ii gnome-characters 43.1-1 ii gnome-contacts43.0-1 ii gnome-control-center 1:43.2-2 ii gnome-disk-utility43.0-1 ii gnome-font-viewer 43.0-1 ii gnome-keyring 42.1-1+b1 ii gnome-logs43.0-1 ii gnome-menus 3.36.0-1.1 ii gnome-online-accounts 3.46.0-1 ii gnome-session 43.0-1 ii gnome-settings-daemon 43.0-3 ii gnome-shell 43.2-1 ii gnome-shell-extensions43.1-1 ii gnome-software43.3-1 ii gnome-sushi 43.0-2 ii gnome-system-monitor 42.0-2 ii gnome-terminal3.46.7-1 ii gnome-text-editor 43.2-1 ii gnome-themes-extra3.28-2 ii gnome-user-docs 43.0-1 ii gnome-user-share 43.0-1 ii gsettings-desktop-schemas 43.0-1 ii gstreamer1.0-packagekit 1.2.6-2 ii gstreamer1.0-plugins-base 1.20.5-1 ii gstreamer1.0-plugins-good 1.20.5-2 ii gvfs-backends 1.50.3-1 ii gvfs-fuse 1.50.3-1 ii libatk-adaptor2.46.0-4 ii libcanberra-pulse 0.30-10 ii libglib2.0-bin2.74.5-1 ii libpam-gnome-keyring 42.1-1+b1 ii libproxy1-plugin-gsettings0.4.18-1 ii libproxy1-plugin-webkit 0.4.18-1 ii librsvg2-common 2.54.5+dfsg-1 ii libspa-0.2-bluetooth 0.3.64-4 ii nautilus 43.2-1 ii pipewire-pulse0.3.64-4 ii sound-theme-freedesktop 0.8-2 ii system-config-printer-common 1.5.18-1 ii system-config-printer-udev1.5.18-1 ii totem 43.0-2 ii tracker 3.4.2-1 ii wireplumber 0.4.13-1 ii xdg-desktop-portal-gnome 43.1-2 ii yelp 42.2-1 ii zenity3.43.0-1 Versions of packages gnome-core recommends: ii chromium [gnome-www-browser] 109.0.5414.74-2 ii firefox [gnome-www-browser] 109.0-1 ii libproxy1-plugin-networkmanager 0.4.18-1 ii network-manager-gnome1.30.0-2 Versions of packages gnome-core suggests: pn gnome -- no debconf information
