Re: locales broken?

[Bastian Venthur]

Michael Biebl wrote:
> Bastian Venthur wrote:
>> James Vega wrote:
> 
> [..]
> 
>> So should I file a bug against KDE(M) for not respecting
>> /etc/default/locale?
> 
> Known bug [1]. A corresponding bug report for gdm has been filed too
> already.

Thanks for the pointer!


Best regards,

Bastian


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Re: locales broken?

[Michael Biebl]

Bastian Venthur wrote:
> James Vega wrote:

[..]

> So should I file a bug against KDE(M) for not respecting
> /etc/default/locale?

Known bug [1]. A corresponding bug report for gdm has been filed too
already.

Cheers,
Michael

[1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=361089



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Re: locales broken?

[Christian Perrier]

(CC'ing Denis Barbier to get his attention, not sure he reads -devel)

> Shouldn't the system take care of it when I do a dpkg-reconfigure locales?
> 
> 
> $ cat /etc/default/locale
> #  File generated by update-locale
> LANG=de_DE.UTF-8
> LANGUAGE=de_DE:de:en_GB:en
> $ cat /etc/environment
> #LANGUAGE="de_DE:de:en_GB:en"
> 
> #LANG=de_DE.UTF-8
> 
> I'm sure I've heard that there is some transition going on to move the
> content of /etc/environment to /etc/default/locale, right? If I
> uncomment out the lines in /etc/environment everything works as expected
> again.

Which is what you should do while the transition is going on. 

The locales package maintainers are, IIRC, handling this transition
but they actually recommend using both files





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Re: Installation is FANTASTIC!!!

[Wolfgang Lonien]

Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 April 2006 10:37, you wrote:
>> The stable version installed so easily and well I just
>> couldn't believe it.  It is now far easier to install Debian than
>> Windows XP - yes - really.  And I'm not a regular Linux user.

Agreed. Tho I had to use the Etch installer on a Dell machine, until it
"behaved" - like reported at
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=357027

> What praise.  Thank you very much!

You're welcome (for my part of the praise, of course). If the installer
is actually nicer than the one of Windows, bringing all the needed
hardware/network/whatever drivers, the praise is in my opinion
well-deserved.

And for those who still are complaining about the installer not being
graphical: please, guys, there's more than your x86 machines. Keep that
in mind. And where is the difference between a mouse click and a return
key (yes, it's - mostly - that easy!)?

>  How do I bind a computer to an NIS server?
>  Use a rope?
>   -- Seen on #Debian

That was a good one! Was it Joey H. or Joey S.? Anyway: thanks for
sharing this with us :-)

cheers,
wjl aka Wolfgang Lonien
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Re: locales broken?

[Bastian Venthur]

James Vega wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 11:28:11PM +0200, Bastian Venthur wrote:
>> Hi Devs,
>>
>> I know some weeks ago we had some major change in some package (I don't
>> remember) which broke my locales. I am using UTF-8 (German) but my
>> system is acting quite strange after the upgrade of the (unknown) package:
>>
> [snip]
>> My locale is still set to UTF-8 (German) but:
>>
>> $ env | grep -i lang
>> $
> 
> Are you sure that isn't being set by one of the files your shell sources
> during initialization?  That was the case for me.

Shouldn't the system take care of it when I do a dpkg-reconfigure locales?


$ cat /etc/default/locale
#  File generated by update-locale
LANG=de_DE.UTF-8
LANGUAGE=de_DE:de:en_GB:en
$ cat /etc/environment
#LANGUAGE="de_DE:de:en_GB:en"

#LANG=de_DE.UTF-8

I'm sure I've heard that there is some transition going on to move the
content of /etc/environment to /etc/default/locale, right? If I
uncomment out the lines in /etc/environment everything works as expected
again.

So should I file a bug against KDE(M) for not respecting
/etc/default/locale?


Best regards,

Bastian


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Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth

[Mike Hommey]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 05:27:28PM -0700, Russ Allbery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > No, this has never been the case. The maintainer gets the bug reports
> > from the BTS directly and the PTS is useful for people who are not the
> > maintainer but which do want to receive all the information that the
> > maintainer usually receives.
> 
> In fact, upload notifications (the one that includes the changelog) are
> not, so far as I can tell, sent to the maintainer by default and I end up
> subscribing to the PTS to get those even for packages where I'm the only
> maintainer.

... and maintainers should be subscribed to that by default.

Mike


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Re: Marking BTS spam

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 10:06:17PM +0100, Julian Gilbey wrote:
> Just saw this thread mentioned on DWN.
> 
> Do you know about "bts reportspam NN" or "bts spamreport NN"
> in the devscripts package?  Might do just what you want :)
> 
>Julian
Hi Julian,
thanks for the update! It seems this[0] says that both are ok.
Cheers,
Kev
[0] http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/devscripts/?rev=356&sc=1

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Re: ip access pemit

[sbisbee]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006, Murilo Bernardes wrote:

hello,
i've got a email server and i'd like to permit access only to a few ip
numbers. can anyone help with this?



Greetings,

With a simple Google query I found: 
http://groups.google.com/group/mailing.postfix.users/browse_thread/thread/6fed867f36847f74/4dc7981ffca06d8a%234dc7981ffca06d8a
While it is from 2003 I doubt that the syntax has changed very much (I do 
not use postfix). If it does not work as expected then I would suggest 
reading the Postfix manual (sounds like you should do this anyways) and/or 
querying Google.


Also, when a service does not have built in authentication measures it is 
easy to impose such limits with iptables. Something like `iptables -A 
INPUT -i eth0 -s allowed_ip --dport 25 -j ACCEPT` should work well if your 
default policy for the INPUT chain is set to DROP or REJECT. If it is not then you 
could change it to be so(`iptables -P INPUT REJECT`) or insert a new rule 
before your ACCEPT line: `iptables -A INPUT -i eth0 --dport 25 -j REJECT`.


Enjoy,

Sam "RavidgeMole" Bisbee | "All programmers are playwrights
 | and all computers are lousy actors."


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Re: Common Position on RubyGems, stupid? what about /usr/local/ ?

[Antony Lesuisse]

I think this thread should move to debian-ruby list. My further posts will be 
debian-ruby only.


If the build-depends are corrects, gem install could be used. (Disallowing any 
kind of remote access)


But that's a minor issue.

The _REAL_ issue is how to allow local administrator (and local users if 
possible) to install and consume gems (outside the realm on debian debs).


The debian firefox package allow me to install firefox extension even if those 
are not pakcaged as deb.  Firefox is a framework like ruby (using ecmascript 
as its language), i don't see why ruby couldn't do it.



A rubygem.deb provided by debian would be installed into

/usr/lib/ruby/1.8/rubygems*
/usr/bin/gem

When root type

gem install gemname

it would install the gem into

/usr/local/lib/ruby/1.8/gems

When a non-root user type

gem install gemname

it would install the gem into

$HOME/.rubygems/

rubygems would be patched to support gems installed in multiple directories

/usr/lib/ruby/1.8/gem
/usr/local/lib/ruby/1.8/
$HOME/.rubygems

I'm experimenting with rubygems-0.8.11.tgz it looks like it will require a 
patch to support multiple directories.


Jason D. Clinton wrote:

On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 12:33 +0200, Antony Lesuisse wrote:

Reading http://pkg-ruby-extras.alioth.debian.org/rubygems.html was
disappointing.


RubyGems is a solution to a problem that only exists on Windows. The 
Debian position is the only tenable one. It would otherwise be 
impossible to install any piece of software which depends on a library 
which is only distributed in Gems format because the Debian packages 
would have no way of building and installing the Gems dependancies. 
Library authors will have to continue package for both Gems (for Windows 
and MacOSX) and using the well-establish install.rb (for all flavors of 
Linux) method -- atleast until Windows gets a sane install and 
versioning system.


--
Jason D. Clinton <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >



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Bug#363685: ITP: libclass-mop-perl -- A Meta Object Protocol for Perl 5

[Krzysztof Krzyzaniak (eloy)]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Krzysztof Krzyzaniak (eloy)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: libclass-mop-perl
  Version : x.y.z
  Upstream Author : Name <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.example.org/
* License : (GPL, LGPL, BSD, MIT/X, etc.)
  Programming Lang: (C, C++, C#, Perl, Python, etc.)
  Description : A Meta Object Protocol for Perl 5

(Include the long description here.)

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'stable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.16-1-686
Locale: LANG=pl_PL, LC_CTYPE=pl_PL (charmap=ISO-8859-2)


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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Adam Borowski]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, Gabor Gombas wrote:

On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 11:12:58AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:

Result: programs run after ifrename (like ifupdown...) will get the old
name.


So what? The user deliberately asked for it. Also it seems easy to write
an udev rule to replace persistent-net-generator.rules using ifrename so
udev will be notified about the new name. That's at most a whislist bug
against ifrename.

It's nice that udev can do it all alone but allowing users to continue
to use the tool they are already familiar with is even nicer.


Idea: if /etc/iftab is present on upgrade, you can consume it, producing 
relevant rules in that place (and displaying a message to the admin).


Having a /sbin/ifrename script which internally uses udev but accepts old 
ways of calling it for compatibility could be good, too; however, since 
the /etc/iftab one-shot renaming on boot-up is usually everything that is 
needed, porting the script is probably not worth the effort.


1KB
--
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| [EMAIL PROTECTED] | I'm hunting wuntime ewwows!
\---/
Segmentation fault (core dumped)


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Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth

[Russ Allbery]

Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> No, this has never been the case. The maintainer gets the bug reports
> from the BTS directly and the PTS is useful for people who are not the
> maintainer but which do want to receive all the information that the
> maintainer usually receives.

In fact, upload notifications (the one that includes the changelog) are
not, so far as I can tell, sent to the maintainer by default and I end up
subscribing to the PTS to get those even for packages where I'm the only
maintainer.

-- 
Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED])   


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Re: Bug#361418: [Proposal] new Debian menu structure

[Bill Allombert]

On Fri, Apr 14, 2006 at 10:25:14AM -0300, Ben Armstrong wrote:
> The pkg-games project has discussed in the past that "Arcade" is a poor
> category, and yet it is preserved in this new menu proposal.
> 
> The thread starts here:
> 
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-games-devel/2006-January/47.html
> 
> Please note that since that time, we have moved back to the old
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] list as our discussion list.  Please Cc
> followups relating to the Games submenu there.

As far as I see, the list address is [EMAIL PROTECTED],
not [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Cheers,
-- 
Bill. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Imagine a large red swirl here. 


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Re: locales broken?

[James Vega]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 11:28:11PM +0200, Bastian Venthur wrote:
> Hi Devs,
> 
> I know some weeks ago we had some major change in some package (I don't
> remember) which broke my locales. I am using UTF-8 (German) but my
> system is acting quite strange after the upgrade of the (unknown) package:
> 
[snip]
> 
> My locale is still set to UTF-8 (German) but:
> 
> $ env | grep -i lang
> $

Are you sure that isn't being set by one of the files your shell sources
during initialization?  That was the case for me.

> I don't know which package to blame, so can somebody give me a hint and
> maybe a workaround?

One solution is to set the proper locale in /etc/environment and ensure
/etc/pam.d/*dm uses pam_env (this is what I did).

Another, probably better, solution is to set the proper locale in
~/.xsession since that will affect only you instead of everyone that
uses the computer.

HTH,

James
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locales broken?

[Bastian Venthur]

Hi Devs,

I know some weeks ago we had some major change in some package (I don't
remember) which broke my locales. I am using UTF-8 (German) but my
system is acting quite strange after the upgrade of the (unknown) package:

- amarok refuses to play files with umlauts in the filename
- firefox and thunderbird start with the English locale (German locales
are installed)
- I'm not able to enter umlauts in KDE's Konsole
- aptitude in Linux-Console (without WindowManager) looks butt-ugly
- ...

My locale is still set to UTF-8 (German) but:

$ env | grep -i lang
$

I don't know which package to blame, so can somebody give me a hint and
maybe a workaround?


Best regards,

Bastian


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Re: Installation is FANTASTIC!!!

[Andrew Donnellan]

On 4/21/06, Adrian von Bidder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 April 2006 10:37, you wrote:
> > The stable version installed so easily and well I just
> > couldn't believe it.  It is now far easier to install Debian than
> > Windows XP - yes - really.  And I'm not a regular Linux user.
>
> What praise.  Thank you very much!
>
> I just had to laugh out loud, because that other email is less than a week
> old: 
>
> (For those not speaking German:  Mr. Werner's opinion of Debian couldn't be
> more differrent from Barry Drake's  and he's complaining about pretty
> much architecture independent stuff, so him using the inofficial AMD64 port
> doesn't matter.)

Babelfish says the other email was complaining that the resolution
should be higher and criticising the installer for being 90s-era. If
he wanted help he could have actually asked...at least some people
like Barry appreciate how easy it actually is to install! (I've had to
install DOS 6.22, Windows 3.11, Windows 95, 98, NT4 and XP before and
I'm quite tired of it!)

andrew


>
> cheers
> -- vbi
>
>
>
>
> --
>  How do I bind a computer to an NIS server?
>  Use a rope?
> -- Seen on #Debian
>
>
>


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Re: Installation is FANTASTIC!!!

[David A.]

I agree. I recently installed Unstable via minimal net-install-CD on a
Dell lattitude laptop. I was impressed with how good it worked to
resize the NTFS-partition during installation. Nice to se that GRUB
took care of the multi-boot-stuff without any strange questions.
Default workstation install worked fine, a good-looking gdm-prompt
greeted me at reboot.
And booting windows XP still worked.

Good work. No problems.
Sure - other OS'es has a more graphical appealing installation process,
but I believe work is already on the way with that.

regards, David.


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Re: Installation is FANTASTIC!!!

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Wednesday 19 April 2006 10:37, you wrote:
> The stable version installed so easily and well I just
> couldn't believe it.  It is now far easier to install Debian than
> Windows XP - yes - really.  And I'm not a regular Linux user.

What praise.  Thank you very much!

I just had to laugh out loud, because that other email is less than a week 
old: 

(For those not speaking German:  Mr. Werner's opinion of Debian couldn't be 
more differrent from Barry Drake's  and he's complaining about pretty 
much architecture independent stuff, so him using the inofficial AMD64 port 
doesn't matter.)

cheers
-- vbi




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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Marco d'Itri]

On Apr 20, Florian Weimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This looks like a bug in udev.  It should not try to identify devices
> based on names a user can and will change.
I think I missed which alternative design you are proposing.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Florian Weimer]

* Marco d'Itri:

> udev receives the hotplug event for eth0
> udev starts dispatching the event for eth0
> udev runs ifrename which renames eth0 to eth1
> udev cannot detect this and continues dispatching the event for eth0

This looks like a bug in udev.  It should not try to identify devices
based on names a user can and will change.

After all, it's not just ifrename.  The iproute and net-tools packages
are also affected.


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Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth

[Raphael Hertzog]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> Meanwhile, which is the PTS keyword that will control the receipt of svn
> commit notifications? Looking at [1] the only one I can figure out is
> "cvs". Can that be generalized and/or "svn" added? I know, it's a really
> minor point, but why not signaling it :)

It's "cvs" yes. I have no plan to introduce a svn keyword... if I change
something here I would replace "cvs" by "vcs" but I'm not sure that people
would understand "vcs" better than "cvs" or "svn". So I might as well keep
cvs and simply document that it is valid for any kind of "version control
system".

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog

Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/


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Re: Debian From Scratch 0.99.0

[George Danchev]

On Thursday 20 April 2006 18:18, John Goerzen wrote:

John, 

Thank you very much for the nice work you have done. I remember the earlier 
versions of dfsbuild with the clean and easy to follow ocaml code !

> Debian From Scratch (DFS) is a single, full rescue CD capable of
> working with all major filesystems, LVM, software RAID, and even
> compiling a new kernel.  The DFS ISO images also contain a small
> Debian mirror subset that lets you use cdebootstrap, along with the
> other utilities on the CD, to perform a manual, "Gentoo-like"
> installation.  It also serves as an excellent rescue CD, with a full
> compliment of filesystem tools, backup/restore software, and a
> development environment complete enough to build your own kernels.
--cut--
> Today I am announcing the availability of DFS 0.99.0 images for
> i386/amd64 and dfsbuild 0.99.0.
>
> dfsbuild is available in sid and (hopefully shortly) testing.  My DFS
> ISOs are available from http://people.debian.org/~jgoerzen/dfs/
>
> DFS is not a separate distribution.  DFS images *are* Debian.  What
> you get when you boot a DFS CD is etch (or whatever you built your own
> images with), with a few minor tweaks to make it run from CD-ROM.
--cut--
> A more comprehensive list of DFS features is available at [2].
>
> [1] http://people.debian.org/~jgoerzen/dfs/pkglist-0.99.0_i386.txt
> [2] http://people.debian.org/~jgoerzen/dfs/html/intro.html#FEATURES

I find it very apropriate the contents of your dfs/ directory to be mirrored 
at cdimage.debian.org [1], where rsync is also provided (useful for 
downstream mirrors and individual dfsbuild fans to follow it up).

[1] CC'ed to debian-cd. Thanks Maswan !

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Debian From Scratch 0.99.0

[John Goerzen]

Debian From Scratch (DFS) is a single, full rescue CD capable of
working with all major filesystems, LVM, software RAID, and even
compiling a new kernel.  The DFS ISO images also contain a small
Debian mirror subset that lets you use cdebootstrap, along with the
other utilities on the CD, to perform a manual, "Gentoo-like"
installation.  It also serves as an excellent rescue CD, with a full
compliment of filesystem tools, backup/restore software, and a
development environment complete enough to build your own kernels.

DFS also refers to dfsbuild, the tool that generates DFS images.
dfsbuild is available as a Debian package.  dfsbuild is designed to
make it trivial to build your own custom DFS images.  You can have
your own set of Debian packages on your images, your own kernels,
etc.  Unlike many other systems, you can go from the example dfs.cfg
to a customized DFS build in just a few minutes, even if you've never
used dfsbuild before.

Today I am announcing the availability of DFS 0.99.0 images for
i386/amd64 and dfsbuild 0.99.0.

dfsbuild is available in sid and (hopefully shortly) testing.  My DFS
ISOs are available from http://people.debian.org/~jgoerzen/dfs/

DFS is not a separate distribution.  DFS images *are* Debian.  What
you get when you boot a DFS CD is etch (or whatever you built your own
images with), with a few minor tweaks to make it run from CD-ROM.

These are the major changes since the previous incarnation of DFS:

 * Entire program rewritten from scratch.  Ported from OCaml to
   Haskell, with some Busybox scripts.

 * DFS now supports Debian initramfs kernels out of the box.  It
   continues to support kernels with enough drivers statically
   compiled to load the CD.

 * Switched from apt-move to reprepro for the generation of the
   on-CD mini Debian mirror, saving space on the generated image.

 * DFS images now use (and require) udev.  2.4.x kernels are no longer
   supported.

 * CD-ROM autodetection via /sys.

 * My DFS images are now built with testing (etch).

 * My DFS images now come with multiple versions of GCC, plus development 
   environments for C, Java, Perl, Haskell, Pyton, OCaml, shell, and
   tcl.

 * My DFS images now come with various version-control programs: CVS,
   darcs, bzr, subversion, git, cogito, arch2darcs, tailor, etc.

 * Numerous additions of other packages to the DFS images; full list
   at [1].  My DFS images now contain 575 packages.

 * My DFS images now built with etch, and come with enough .debs to
   cdebootstrap sarge, etch, or sid (assuming sid is stable enough at
   this time)

 * My DFS images continue to be able to cdebootstrap either an i386
   or amd64 system.

A more comprehensive list of DFS features is available at [2].

[1] http://people.debian.org/~jgoerzen/dfs/pkglist-0.99.0_i386.txt
[2] http://people.debian.org/~jgoerzen/dfs/html/intro.html#FEATURES


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Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 11:13:14AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> Furthermore, the PTS has a very fine-grained mechanism to select which
> messages one wants to receive. Thus you can always work around any problem
> by enabling or disabling a specific keyword on a specific subscription.

Thanks for the info, I will do this for pkg-vim and pkg-ocaml-maint.

Meanwhile, which is the PTS keyword that will control the receipt of svn
commit notifications? Looking at [1] the only one I can figure out is
"cvs". Can that be generalized and/or "svn" added? I know, it's a really
minor point, but why not signaling it :)

Cheers.

[1] 
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/ch-resources.en.html#s-pkg-tracking-system

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli -*- Computer Science PhD student @ Uny Bologna, Italy
[EMAIL PROTECTED],debian.org,bononia.it} -%- http://www.bononia.it/zack/
If there's any real truth it's that the entire multidimensional infinity
of the Universe is almost certainly being run by a bunch of maniacs. -!-


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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 03:01:19PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Apr 20, Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > will be closed with (at most) a pointer to that file; but I don't see
> > why you shoul _forbid_ people to use it after being duly warned.
> Because *it does not work*.

So? IMAO, the same applies to all of udev, but that doesn't mean I'll
make nbd-client (which uses /dev entries) conflict with udev.

> I am not sure how I could express this concept in other ways.

I don't see why you would need to. Moreover, having ifrename installed
doesn't necessarily mean you're also actually using it; so conflicting
with it is not the right thing to do.

-- 
Fun will now commence
  -- Seven Of Nine, "Ashes to Ashes", stardate 53679.4


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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Gabor Gombas]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 01:52:14PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:

> This does not make it less broken.

Why? Care to point out just one single feature that is broken, provided
that the interface is _not_ configured to be automatically brought up in
/etc/network/interfaces?

> But it's not.

That's ifrename's problem, and there is absolutely no reason for udev to
conflict with ifrename.

Gabor

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Hungarian Academy of Sciences
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Re: Bug#363250: general: Custom PAGER gives error on sid, but works on sarge

[Manoj Srivastava]

On 20 Apr 2006, Steve Langasek spake thusly:

> On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 12:05:16AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
 I expect to be able to pipe stuff to $PAGER, or invoke $PAGER
 on a text file, like so:
>
 % cat~/.bash_profile | $PAGER
 % $PAGER ~/.bash_profile
>
>>> That seems to be an awfully user-specific expectation, given that
>>> you can't assume that PAGER is set *at all* by default.
>
>> Err, if the PAGER is empty, default it to "more".  What does
>> that have to do with the price of tea in china?
>
> $ echo $PAGER
>
> $ $PAGER tea\ in\ china
> bash: ./tea in china: Permission denied
> $
>
> If $PAGER isn't set, then you can't very well use it as you
> describe, can you?
>
> 'Course, you can use the sensible-pager command this way.  And
> sensible-pager does expect that $PAGER, if set, can take file names
> as appended arguments.  So I guess your use cases do model the
> defacto policy for use of $PAGER.

The discussion here is about what the expectation are for the
 contents of #PAGER, if it  exists, not how to correctly use
 $PAGER. You are throwing red herrings and derailing the discussion,
 please stop it. Specifically, the issue started as how to use vim as
 PAGER, and lead to what the semantics of the PAGER were.  What to do
 when PAGER does not exist are orthogonal.

My statements attempt to provide an expectation of the use
 cases a PAGER variable setting ought to be able to implement.  It is
 relevant to deciding how to set $PAGER, your mail adds nothing to the
 topic. 

If you truly want to discuss how to actually use $PAGER
 correctly, start your own topic, and don't hijack this thread.

manoj

-- 
I like your SNOOPY POSTER!!
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Marco d'Itri]

On Apr 20, Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> will be closed with (at most) a pointer to that file; but I don't see
> why you shoul _forbid_ people to use it after being duly warned.
Because *it does not work*.
I am not sure how I could express this concept in other ways.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: Bug#363685: ITP: libclass-mop-perl -- A Meta Object Protocol for Perl 5

[Krzysztof Krzyzaniak]

Krzysztof Krzyzaniak (eloy) wrote:

Hmm, something happen with reportbug, should be:

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Krzysztof Krzyzaniak (eloy)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: libclass-mop-perl
  Version : 0.24
  Upstream Author : Stevan Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/~stevan/Class-MOP-0.24/
* License : Perl: GPL/Artistic
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : A Meta Object Protocol for Perl 5

This module is an attempt to create a meta object protocol for the Perl5
object system. It makes no attempt to change the behavior or
characteristics of the Perl 5 object system, only to create a protocol
for its manipulation and introspection.

  eloy

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'stable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.16-1-686
Locale: LANG=pl_PL, LC_CTYPE=pl_PL (charmap=ISO-8859-2)
-- 
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   jak to dobrze, że są oceany - bez nich byłoby jeszcze smutniej


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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 01:52:14PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Apr 20, Gabor Gombas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > > Result: programs run after ifrename (like ifupdown...) will get the old
> > > name.
> > So what? The user deliberately asked for it. Also it seems easy to write
> This does not make it less broken.

No, but that's not the point. If the user asked for it, there's no
reason why it should be made impossible for him to use it.

Feel free to add a README.ifrename to the udev package, with an
explanation of why you think it's a bad idea, a suggestion what a user
_could_ try to make it less of a problem (if any such suggestion is
available), and a statement that bugs about interference with ifrename
will be closed with (at most) a pointer to that file; but I don't see
why you shoul _forbid_ people to use it after being duly warned.

-- 
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  -- Seven Of Nine, "Ashes to Ashes", stardate 53679.4


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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Marco d'Itri]

On Apr 20, Gabor Gombas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Result: programs run after ifrename (like ifupdown...) will get the old
> > name.
> So what? The user deliberately asked for it. Also it seems easy to write
This does not make it less broken.

> an udev rule to replace persistent-net-generator.rules using ifrename so
> udev will be notified about the new name.
But it's not.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Gabor Gombas]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 11:12:58AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:

> Result: programs run after ifrename (like ifupdown...) will get the old
> name.

So what? The user deliberately asked for it. Also it seems easy to write
an udev rule to replace persistent-net-generator.rules using ifrename so
udev will be notified about the new name. That's at most a whislist bug
against ifrename.

It's nice that udev can do it all alone but allowing users to continue
to use the tool they are already familiar with is even nicer.

Gabor

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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Reinhard Tartler]

Steve Langasek wrote:
> What's the sense of pointing this out when that field isn't implemented (or
> standardized)?  Scott may object to how Conflicts: is used, but until Breaks
> exists and is available for use in Debian, it's the correct field to use.

Well, TBH, I'm still a bit confused about the Breaks: field, and still
try to undestand dpkg in this point. I think I won't come get around
without taking a few hours to read and understand the dpkg source code. 

Greetings,
Reinhard




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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Colin Watson]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 09:01:40AM +, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> Are there any file conflicts between udev and ifrename? If not, then
> according to the old dpkg maintainer, Scott Remnant, a Conflicts is not
> warranted. He mentioned this in the context of xscreensaver breaking
> gnomescreensaver in ubuntu: https://launchpad.net/bugs/22335 (Look for
> the comment starting with "Ok, I'm starting to get a bit tired of this
> ...")

Note that Scott added a Conflicts on ifrename to Ubuntu's udev package.

-- 
Colin Watson   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth

[Raphael Hertzog]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, Frank Küster wrote:
> > I even documented that configuration in the sample configuration file.
> > That's what I've done with python-modules recently. Some people subscribe
> > to the -commits list because they are very involved in the team and other
> > just use the PTS to follow the 2-3 packages that are of interest to them.
> 
> But isn't the maintainer automatically subscribed to all messages to the
> PTS?

No, this has never been the case. The maintainer gets the bug reports
from the BTS directly and the PTS is useful for people who are not the
maintainer but which do want to receive all the information that
the maintainer usually receives.

Furthermore, the PTS has a very fine-grained mechanism to select which
messages one wants to receive. Thus you can always work around any problem
by enabling or disabling a specific keyword on a specific subscription.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog

Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/


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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Marco d'Itri]

On Apr 20, Gabor Gombas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > No, ifrename cannot be used with udev because it cannot know that the
> > name of an interface has changed and will not be able to correctly
> > deliver the hotplug events.
> I do not understand how hotplug events enter the picture. I do not use
udev receives the hotplug event for eth0
udev starts dispatching the event for eth0
udev runs ifrename which renames eth0 to eth1
udev cannot detect this and continues dispatching the event for eth0

Result: programs run after ifrename (like ifupdown...) will get the old
name.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Steve Langasek]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 09:01:40AM +, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > If you have not noticed yet, the latest udev release by default
> > automatically generates rules to have persistent names for network
> > interfaces.

> > I am inclined to agree with the bug reporter, but I want to double check
> > and ask if anybody has other arguments.

> > On Apr 20, Michael Biebl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >> Besides the fact that ifrename is more of a hack, now that udev enables
> >> persistent naming of interfaces (z25_persistent-net.rules) udev should
> >> conflict with ifrename. Otherwise the user could get unexpected results
> >> if /etc/iftab still exists and the ifrename init script tries to rename t=
> > he
> >> interfaces (again) with possibly different names than the ones set in
> >> z25_persistent-net.rules.

> Are there any file conflicts between udev and ifrename? If not, then
> according to the old dpkg maintainer, Scott Remnant, a Conflicts is not
> warranted. He mentioned this in the context of xscreensaver breaking
> gnomescreensaver in ubuntu: https://launchpad.net/bugs/22335 (Look for
> the comment starting with "Ok, I'm starting to get a bit tired of this
> ...")

> It seems to me that here the (yet unimplemented) Breaks: field would be
> right.

What's the sense of pointing this out when that field isn't implemented (or
standardized)?  Scott may object to how Conflicts: is used, but until Breaks
exists and is available for use in Debian, it's the correct field to use.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.debian.org/


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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Reinhard Tartler]

Marco d'Itri wrote:
> If you have not noticed yet, the latest udev release by default
> automatically generates rules to have persistent names for network
> interfaces.
>
> I am inclined to agree with the bug reporter, but I want to double check
> and ask if anybody has other arguments.
>
> On Apr 20, Michael Biebl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Besides the fact that ifrename is more of a hack, now that udev enables
>> persistent naming of interfaces (z25_persistent-net.rules) udev should
>> conflict with ifrename. Otherwise the user could get unexpected results
>> if /etc/iftab still exists and the ifrename init script tries to rename t=
> he
>> interfaces (again) with possibly different names than the ones set in
>> z25_persistent-net.rules.

Are there any file conflicts between udev and ifrename? If not, then
according to the old dpkg maintainer, Scott Remnant, a Conflicts is not
warranted. He mentioned this in the context of xscreensaver breaking
gnomescreensaver in ubuntu: https://launchpad.net/bugs/22335 (Look for
the comment starting with "Ok, I'm starting to get a bit tired of this
...")

It seems to me that here the (yet unimplemented) Breaks: field would be
right.

Greetings,
Reinhard



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Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Gabor Gombas]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 09:10:18AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:

> No, ifrename cannot be used with udev because it cannot know that the
> name of an interface has changed and will not be able to correctly
> deliver the hotplug events.

I do not understand how hotplug events enter the picture. I do not use
ifrename but I can rename interfaces manually using "ip link set name"
even when udev has already renamed the interface before. If ifrename can
not handle already-renamed interfaces, that's a bug in ifrename, but I
fail to see why renaming an interface multiple times should cause any
kind of problem.

Gabor

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Re: Guidelines for packaging projects on Alioth

[Frank Küster]

Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I even documented that configuration in the sample configuration file.
> That's what I've done with python-modules recently. Some people subscribe
> to the -commits list because they are very involved in the team and other
> just use the PTS to follow the 2-3 packages that are of interest to them.

But isn't the maintainer automatically subscribed to all messages to the
PTS?  This would mean that if the maintainer is set to a mailing list,
the list receives all commit messages.  This deceives the purpose of
having a separate list for commit messages.

For pkg-tetex, we send the commit messages with logs to the maintainer
list - no problem redirecting this to the PTS.  But the full diffs would
only clutter the list and are better in pkg-tetex-commits.

Regards, Frank
-- 
Frank Küster
Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich
Debian Developer (teTeX)

Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename

[Marco d'Itri]

On Apr 20, Peter Palfrader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I use ifrename to give useful names to interfaces and just because udev
> may be able to do this now as well does not mean they should conflict.
No, ifrename cannot be used with udev because it cannot know that the
name of an interface has changed and will not be able to correctly
deliver the hotplug events.

udev *has always been* able to rename interfaces, BTW.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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