Re: FTP Policy Development
Sure I do understand how things work. I'm not suggesting that ALL discussions need be public - specifically I was not meaning deliberations on any given case. But I do think that general policy discussions should involve the entire debian community - as is done for Debian Policy Manual. On March 7, 2018 7:03:54 PM EST, Gunnar Wolf wrote: >Steve Robbins dijo [Sat, Mar 03, 2018 at 01:15:35PM -0600]: >> (...) >> To me, one of the puzzling aspects is why the FTP policy work has >been so >> secretive. The release team has a mailing list, tech committee has a >mailing >> list. There is Debian Policy list. It doesn't seem in congruence >that the >> ftp team is making their policy behind closed doors. Should it not >flow from >> Debian Policy and be debated on open lists? >> >> Or maybe it is all open and I simply haven't found it. If so, I >would >> gratefully accept pointers. Concretely: where would one find the >> deliberations behind https://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html ? > >Ummm... > >Not that I know much about how ftp-masters work internally. But I have >been on several other Debian teams. In general, all decisions are >taken in the public - But it is by far not uncommon to resort to >private communication for many of the non-obvious, contentious >cases. There are *always* cases where you want to discuss something >without the affected actors being part of the loop. > >Yes, Debian as a whole strives for openness, and you will often see >calls to "get out of private" whenever interesting discussions taking >place. But I would perfectly understand and support a ftp-master >workflow that routinely involves private communication - Their >decisions, although non-personal in nature, can be *felt* as personal >attacks. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: FTP Policy Development
Steve Robbins dijo [Sat, Mar 03, 2018 at 01:15:35PM -0600]: > (...) > To me, one of the puzzling aspects is why the FTP policy work has been so > secretive. The release team has a mailing list, tech committee has a mailing > list. There is Debian Policy list. It doesn't seem in congruence that the > ftp team is making their policy behind closed doors. Should it not flow from > Debian Policy and be debated on open lists? > > Or maybe it is all open and I simply haven't found it. If so, I would > gratefully accept pointers. Concretely: where would one find the > deliberations behind https://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html ? Ummm... Not that I know much about how ftp-masters work internally. But I have been on several other Debian teams. In general, all decisions are taken in the public - But it is by far not uncommon to resort to private communication for many of the non-obvious, contentious cases. There are *always* cases where you want to discuss something without the affected actors being part of the loop. Yes, Debian as a whole strives for openness, and you will often see calls to "get out of private" whenever interesting discussions taking place. But I would perfectly understand and support a ftp-master workflow that routinely involves private communication - Their decisions, although non-personal in nature, can be *felt* as personal attacks. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
FTP Policy Development
On Friday, March 2, 2018 11:07:39 PM CST Scott Kitterman wrote: > On Friday, March 02, 2018 09:44:04 PM Steve Robbins wrote: > > On Thursday, March 1, 2018 6:15:08 AM CST Ian Jackson wrote: > > > But when a submitter disagrees with a REJECT, and asks for a review, > > > IMO submitter is entitled to a longer explanation, and there should > > > explicitly be an opportunity for other ftpmasters to agree or dissent. > > > > That would be nice. I'm still waiting for clarity about the Boost > > rejection. > > This is my fault. I had planned (and still do) on working on getting some > clarification around the copyright notification issue. Unfortunately, I've > gotten distracted by a few other things, but I still plan on working on it. Well, I don't think it is your fault. I myself have several times sat down to write a follow-up -- with an actual proposal, not just complaining :-) -- but also got distracted. We're all busy. But I am heartened to hear that you are working on it. And I welcome the recent proposals by Ian and by Gert. To me, one of the puzzling aspects is why the FTP policy work has been so secretive. The release team has a mailing list, tech committee has a mailing list. There is Debian Policy list. It doesn't seem in congruence that the ftp team is making their policy behind closed doors. Should it not flow from Debian Policy and be debated on open lists? Or maybe it is all open and I simply haven't found it. If so, I would gratefully accept pointers. Concretely: where would one find the deliberations behind https://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html ? -Steve P.S. If I didn't strike the right tone in this email, then I do apologise. It is honestly not intended to be antagonistic, though I admit it does sound a bit whiny. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.