Re: Re: Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
I also find the manual dpi setting annoying My screen is screen #0: dimensions:1400x1050 pixels (301x232 millimeters) resolution:118x115 dots per inch and as i use programs like the gimp, etc its nice to have it get the correct dpi without manually having to configure it. Xfree86 correctly detects the dpi on my system (geforce4go/ tft ). Best Regards Jools -- Oxford Inspire [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: 01865 751879 Mob: 07966 577498
Re: Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
Frank Murphy writes: >> This is of course not something Debian KDE packages can change. >> File a bug against the relevant X package, if you want this >> implemented. >> >> Btw, xdm also still adds the -dpi setting, so I'm inclined to think >> there must still be a reason for it, no ? > I didn't realize that xdm did it as well, but I just verified that > it does. I'll check with the X folks as to why. great, thanks > I assume that if this is changed in xdm, that change can be easily > picked up by kdm. Yes, a lot of the kdm config stuff comes from xdm, so this would be logical. cheers domi
Re: Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
> This is of course not something Debian KDE packages can change. File > a bug against the relevant X package, if you want this implemented. > > Btw, xdm also still adds the -dpi setting, so I'm inclined to think > there must still be a reason for it, no ? I didn't realize that xdm did it as well, but I just verified that it does. I'll check with the X folks as to why. I assume that if this is changed in xdm, that change can be easily picked up by kdm. Frank
Re: Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
Zsolt Rizsanyi writes: >> > I think it can be guessed for most of the current hw >> > configurations. For the systems where it cannot be guessed the >> > user should enter the values. He already does need to enter the >> > horizontal and vertical refresh ranges of the monitor and the >> > display size can be found at the same place in the manual :) >> >> This is of course not something Debian KDE packages can change. >> File a bug against the relevant X package, if you want this >> implemented. > Why? AFAIK 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86' invokes dexconf for > configuration, which is a debian only program. So it could and > should be fixed by debian. Debian *KDE packages*. File a bug against one of the X packages on bugs.debian.org if you want to get the X maintainers to fix this cheers domi
Re: Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
On Tuesday 20 January 2004 13.58, Dominique Devriese wrote: > Rizsanyi Zsolt writes: > > On Monday 19 January 2004 23.53, Dominique Devriese wrote: > >> Zsolt Rizsanyi writes: > >> > So I think the first step is to set the DisplaySize in > >> > XF86Config. Then at least startx would work correctly. > >> > >> There is no way afaict to guess this value for every user's > >> configuration, or is there ? > > > > I think it can be guessed for most of the current hw configurations. > > For the systems where it cannot be guessed the user should enter the > > values. He already does need to enter the horizontal and vertical > > refresh ranges of the monitor and the display size can be found at > > the same place in the manual :) > > This is of course not something Debian KDE packages can change. File > a bug against the relevant X package, if you want this implemented. Why? AFAIK 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86' invokes dexconf for configuration, which is a debian only program. So it could and should be fixed by debian. Regards Zsolt
Re: Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
> Btw, xdm also still adds the -dpi setting, so I'm inclined to think > there must still be a reason for it, no ? I believe this is because debian X maintainers are overloaded with 4.3 work ...
Re: Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
Rizsanyi Zsolt writes: > On Monday 19 January 2004 23.53, Dominique Devriese wrote: >> Zsolt Rizsanyi writes: >> > So I think the first step is to set the DisplaySize in >> > XF86Config. Then at least startx would work correctly. >> >> There is no way afaict to guess this value for every user's >> configuration, or is there ? > I think it can be guessed for most of the current hw configurations. > For the systems where it cannot be guessed the user should enter the > values. He already does need to enter the horizontal and vertical > refresh ranges of the monitor and the display size can be found at > the same place in the manual :) This is of course not something Debian KDE packages can change. File a bug against the relevant X package, if you want this implemented. Btw, xdm also still adds the -dpi setting, so I'm inclined to think there must still be a reason for it, no ? cheers domi
Re: Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
On Monday 19 January 2004 23.53, Dominique Devriese wrote: > Zsolt Rizsanyi writes: > > So I think the first step is to set the DisplaySize in > > XF86Config. Then at least startx would work correctly. > > There is no way afaict to guess this value for every user's > configuration, or is there ? I think it can be guessed for most of the current hw configurations. For the systems where it cannot be guessed the user should enter the values. He already does need to enter the horizontal and vertical refresh ranges of the monitor and the display size can be found at the same place in the manual :) > What do you think should change in the Debian packages ? The above should be enough, and of course removing the -dpi setting from the kdm configuration. Regards Zsolt
Re: Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
Zsolt Rizsanyi writes: > So I think the first step is to set the DisplaySize in > XF86Config. Then at least startx would work correctly. There is no way afaict to guess this value for every user's configuration, or is there ? What do you think should change in the Debian packages ? cheers domi
Re: Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
On Monday 19 January 2004 23.19, Frank Murphy wrote: > On Monday 19 January 2004 10:09, Zsolt Rizsanyi wrote: > > On Monday 19 January 2004 20.46, you wrote: > > > It's a bit unfair though, to want the xfree packages to automatically > > > configure the dpi when kdm doesn't either. > > > > I don't understand. You said that kdm should not set the dpi because the > > X server autodetects it. In that case I would expect the autodetection to > > work correctly. > > Actually, it can be autodetected, but some of the X drivers are buggy. By > overriding the autodetection, we won't find which drivers are buggy. Here's > a message about it from the X list: > http://lists.debian.org/debian-x/2003/debian-x-200312/msg00387.html I didn't know about that. This, of course, changes the things quite a bit and now I completely agree with your suggestion. I would just note it, that I did never let my X server autodetect the display size in the last two years (I always set DisplaySize). So maybe my driver is already fixed. I will check it when I get to it. Regards Zsolt
Re: Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
On Monday 19 January 2004 10:09, Zsolt Rizsanyi wrote: > On Monday 19 January 2004 20.46, you wrote: > > It's a bit unfair though, to want the xfree packages to automatically > > configure the dpi when kdm doesn't either. > > I don't understand. You said that kdm should not set the dpi because the X > server autodetects it. In that case I would expect the autodetection to > work correctly. Actually, it can be autodetected, but some of the X drivers are buggy. By overriding the autodetection, we won't find which drivers are buggy. Here's a message about it from the X list: http://lists.debian.org/debian-x/2003/debian-x-200312/msg00387.html > I have a rather large monitor compared to its resolution: 19'' with > 1152x864. Display size is 340 x 270 mm. That is about ~80 dpi. > If I don't set the DisplaySize option in the Monitor section of the > XF86Config the the X server autodetects 101 dpi (if I remember correctly). > > I have the next possible configuration options: > 1.) leave everything as it is set by debian (kdm with -dpi 100 and no > DisplaySize option in XF86Config) > dpi is 100 > 2.) change all the server lines in the /etc/kde3/kdm/Xserver to -dpi 75 > dpi is 75 (much better for my usage) > 3.) remove -dpi settings from /etc/kde3/kdm/Xserver > I end up with dpi 101 which is worse IMHO than 1.) > 4.) remove -dpi from Xserver and set DisplaySize in XF86Config > dpi ~80 > > I currently using 2.) and contemplating if 4.) would be better. > > So I think the first step is to set the DisplaySize in XF86Config. Then at > least startx would work correctly. It sounds like the autodetection for your driver is broken. I think that 4 is the best general solution because users won't be surprised if they switch to xdm, gdm, or startx and all the fonts are suddenly way too big.. > But if just you remove -dpi from the kdm config, you don't get anything > (and it may be even worse). What we gain is that the Debian kde users will be excercising the X autodetection. And in the case where the autodetection works, it's obviously better to not throw that info away in kdm. Frank
Re: Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
On Monday 19 January 2004 20.46, you wrote: > Did you intentionally send this off-list? I was hoping to have the > discussion on-list. No. I sent it in private by mistake. Sorry > It's a bit unfair though, to want the xfree packages to automatically > configure the dpi when kdm doesn't either. I don't understand. You said that kdm should not set the dpi because the X server autodetects it. In that case I would expect the autodetection to work correctly. I have a rather large monitor compared to its resolution: 19'' with 1152x864. Display size is 340 x 270 mm. That is about ~80 dpi. If I don't set the DisplaySize option in the Monitor section of the XF86Config the the X server autodetects 101 dpi (if I remember correctly). I have the next possible configuration options: 1.) leave everything as it is set by debian (kdm with -dpi 100 and no DisplaySize option in XF86Config) dpi is 100 2.) change all the server lines in the /etc/kde3/kdm/Xserver to -dpi 75 dpi is 75 (much better for my usage) 3.) remove -dpi settings from /etc/kde3/kdm/Xserver I end up with dpi 101 which is worse IMHO than 1.) 4.) remove -dpi from Xserver and set DisplaySize in XF86Config dpi ~80 I currently using 2.) and contemplating if 4.) would be better. So I think the first step is to set the DisplaySize in XF86Config. Then at least startx would work correctly. But if just you remove -dpi from the kdm config, you don't get anything (and it may be even worse). > On Sunday 18 January 2004 10:49, you wrote: > > On Sunday 18 January 2004 01.24, Frank Murphy wrote: > > > On Saturday 17 January 2004 10:15, Dominique Devriese wrote: > > > > Frank Murphy writes: > > > > > I recently noticed that kdm for Debian sets the Xserver dpi to 100 > > > > > with its -dpi 100 switch. I know that all the old de-uglification > > > > > docs recommended this to deal with Netscape's handling of bitmap > > > > > fonts on X. But now that X has better support for truetype fonts > > > > > (plus the free Bitstream Vera fonts), should this be removed? > > > > > Anyone who still wants it could exit the /etc/kde3/kdm/Xservers > > > > > file, or better yet, the XF86Config file. > > > > > > > > Any reason why we wouldn't want to have it ? > > > > > > Well, XFree86 automatically detects the proper dpi. Overriding it with > > > kdm just adds another layer of configuration, which is unnecessary > > > complication. > > > > Yes that's true. > > But AFAIK the XFree86 in debian (at least the one in sarge) cannot > > correctly detect the dpi since the DisplaySize option is not set > > (dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 does not set it). > > Maybe that also should be fixed. > > > > Regards > > Zsolt
Re: Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
On Saturday 17 January 2004 10:15, Dominique Devriese wrote: > Frank Murphy writes: > > I recently noticed that kdm for Debian sets the Xserver dpi to 100 > > with its -dpi 100 switch. I know that all the old de-uglification > > docs recommended this to deal with Netscape's handling of bitmap > > fonts on X. But now that X has better support for truetype fonts > > (plus the free Bitstream Vera fonts), should this be removed? Anyone > > who still wants it could exit the /etc/kde3/kdm/Xservers file, or > > better yet, the XF86Config file. > > Any reason why we wouldn't want to have it ? Well, XFree86 automatically detects the proper dpi. Overriding it with kdm just adds another layer of configuration, which is unnecessary complication. Frank
Re: Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
Frank Murphy writes: > I recently noticed that kdm for Debian sets the Xserver dpi to 100 > with its -dpi 100 switch. I know that all the old de-uglification > docs recommended this to deal with Netscape's handling of bitmap > fonts on X. But now that X has better support for truetype fonts > (plus the free Bitstream Vera fonts), should this be removed? Anyone > who still wants it could exit the /etc/kde3/kdm/Xservers file, or > better yet, the XF86Config file. Any reason why we wouldn't want to have it ? cheers domi
Why does kdm still set dpi to 100?
I recently noticed that kdm for Debian sets the Xserver dpi to 100 with its -dpi 100 switch. I know that all the old de-uglification docs recommended this to deal with Netscape's handling of bitmap fonts on X. But now that X has better support for truetype fonts (plus the free Bitstream Vera fonts), should this be removed? Anyone who still wants it could exit the /etc/kde3/kdm/Xservers file, or better yet, the XF86Config file. I would think that this change would be best made during the KDE 2.x -> 3.x change that will happen with sarge. (If people here think it's a good idea, that is.) So, what do you think? Frank
