Re: Debian First Boot Problem on Ultra5
On 2009-05-03, Jon Pruente wrote: > Is the monitor connected to the VGA port built into the motherboard? I've > been having problems with X & GDM on an Ultra 10, which uses the same mobo, > IIRC. I was planning on trying it with the on board video, but you may be > beating me to it. On my Ultra 5 and Ultra 10 using the onboard ATI video, X works for me with kernel <= 2.6.22, but not above. On my Ultra 60 with Creator UPA graphics card, X works with kernels up to 2.6.26. I'm not sure what version of xorg is running on these. kernel 2.6.29 does not boot at all on these. At first glance, this kernel appears to be twice the size of 2.6.26. Regards, Howard E. Ottawa -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian unusable on niagara
From: Josip Rodin Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 22:44:43 +0200 > On Sun, May 03, 2009 at 01:11:29PM -0700, David Miller wrote: >> I don't find garbage like this in Ubuntu and Fedora-sparc. Why? >> Because those developers contact me when they need help or need a >> problem fixed. >> >> End of story. > > Doesn't that mean that they encounter a fairly small amount of > non-distro-specific sparc-related problems? Otherwise I don't see how > that procedure can scale. Are you really this blind? Assume there were 100 sparc supporting distributions. What scales better? Having me on 100 fucking mailing lists looking for things or having those sparc dist maintainers contact me or this mailing list when something specific comes to their attention? You tell me. > Neither Ubuntu nor Fedora seem to distribute sparc versions as mainstream, > which would seem to explain why they aren't seeing enough problems for > these kinds of issues ever to escalate. Ubuntu did. And both the Fedora and Ubuntu sparc folks sit on a sparc developer IRC channel and have direct access to me 24 hours a day if they want to ask something or get something tested. You're being dense and bringing up scarecrows to dismiss my fundamental argument. Which is that it doesn't make sense, nor scale, for me to follow what ever dist in the world does with my work. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian unusable on niagara
From: Josip Rodin Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:41:40 +0200 > OK, but each distribution lives in a little (or large) ecosystem of their > own I want to re-emphasize this: developers in other distributions proactively communicate and interact with me. Debian's doesn't. And that, my friend, is the crucial difference. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian unusable on niagara
From: Sam Ravnborg Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 15:35:24 +0200 > This solution does not scale at all. The distribution ecosystem > that integrate sparc kernel should contact the sparc maintainer. Everyone read this carefully, it the critical point in all of this. I don't find garbage like this in Ubuntu and Fedora-sparc. Why? Because those developers contact me when they need help or need a problem fixed. End of story. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Re: Debian First Boot Problem on Ultra5
Is the monitor connected to the VGA port built into the motherboard? I've been having problems with X & GDM on an Ultra 10, which uses the same mobo, IIRC. I was planning on trying it with the on board video, but you may be beating me to it. Jon. On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 1:14 PM, charles duncan wrote: > > Thank you so much for responding. > I am able to ping it. > This system worked before I installed Debian, so I know all the hardware is > good. > I tried both LCD and CRT monitors to see if that > > I don't know if this helps, but the last three lines > > Starting GNOME Display Manager: gdm > Starting System Tools Backends: System-Tools > Starting anachronistic cron: anacron > > then the screen goes blank save for the > underline character at the top > > > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmas...@lists.debian.org > >
Re: debian unusable on niagara
On Sun, May 03, 2009 at 01:11:29PM -0700, David Miller wrote: > I don't find garbage like this in Ubuntu and Fedora-sparc. Why? > Because those developers contact me when they need help or need a > problem fixed. > > End of story. Doesn't that mean that they encounter a fairly small amount of non-distro-specific sparc-related problems? Otherwise I don't see how that procedure can scale. Neither Ubuntu nor Fedora seem to distribute sparc versions as mainstream, which would seem to explain why they aren't seeing enough problems for these kinds of issues ever to escalate. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian unusable on niagara
On Sun, May 03, 2009 at 01:41:40PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote: > On Sat, May 02, 2009 at 05:06:04PM -0700, David Miller wrote: > > From: Josip Rodin > > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:54:15 +0200 > > > > > So I suggest that we get some simple diffing done between the two > > > pieces of software as a basis for documenting any differences, or > > > making modifications so that they converge. > > > > If I had just once seen a "Dave, can you test this image out to make > > sure this Niagara bug is fixed?", I would have been happy with any > > result whatsoever. > > > > But because that did not happen, I'm understandably irked that things > > are broken the way that they are. > > > > I have tons of machines to test on, and the knowledge to fix just > > about anything, I just have to be asked. > > OK, but each distribution lives in a little (or large) ecosystem of their > own, and even in the case of Debian where the system is open for everyone to > enter, the actual act of entering the system is necessary in order for > anyone to participate. > > In this case, where you want to be informed when there's new stuff in > Debian's sparc kernel, you might want to subscribe yourself to the > debian-sparc list[1] which is the only Debian sparc port mailing list and > the place where e.g. calls for testing new kernel images are sent to, > and maybe to the linux-2.6 package tracking system[2] where you can read > Debian's Linux kernel package changelogs, which will have references to > any sparc patches. This solution does not scale at all. The distribution ecosystem that integrate sparc kernel should contact the sparc maintainer. We cannot expect the saprc maintainer to monitor the traffic all relevant mailing lists - yet expect him to know them. This simply does not scale neither work in practice. Yes - you provided pointers to the debian lists but there is a few more distributions around than just debian. We could assume that the debian folks handling sparc are capable of judging when to ask for help/advice from the sparc kernel maintainer. Sam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian unusable on niagara
From: Josip Rodin Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 17:58:04 +0200 > David has indicated that he is willing to test other people's kernels on > his plethora of machines, which can be a fairly arduous task, so it > stands to reason that skimming a couple more mailing lists might be > sufficiently less arduous for him that he would we willing to do it. > > In case of sparc, it should be mentioned that we're at most a stable > community, if not diminishing in size... It's PUSH, not PULL that makes it scale! People contact me when they need something tested, not the other way around! Do you think I have time to murk through every sparc distributions mailing list looking for crap like this? You must be crazy if you think that works and can scale. Now the other way around, having people who concentrate in their so-called "ecosystem" proactively contact me when a specific thing need to be looked at, that does scale. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian unusable on niagara
> > > > We could assume that the debian folks handling sparc are capable > > of judging when to ask for help/advice from the sparc kernel maintainer. > > Sadly, from the last few examples, you can also see that expecting distro > kernel maintainers to contact the central one for all sorts of patches or > changes also doesn't work in practice. Well - then lets educate them... EOT from me. Sam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Re: Debian First Boot Problem on Ultra5
Thank you so much for responding. I am able to ping it. This system worked before I installed Debian, so I know all the hardware is good. I tried both LCD and CRT monitors to see if that I don't know if this helps, but the last three lines Starting GNOME Display Manager: gdm Starting System Tools Backends: System-Tools Starting anachronistic cron: anacron then the screen goes blank save for the underline character at the top -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian unusable on niagara
From: Josip Rodin Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:41:40 +0200 > On Sat, May 02, 2009 at 05:06:04PM -0700, David Miller wrote: >> From: Josip Rodin >> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:54:15 +0200 >> >> > So I suggest that we get some simple diffing done between the two >> > pieces of software as a basis for documenting any differences, or >> > making modifications so that they converge. >> >> If I had just once seen a "Dave, can you test this image out to make >> sure this Niagara bug is fixed?", I would have been happy with any >> result whatsoever. >> >> But because that did not happen, I'm understandably irked that things >> are broken the way that they are. >> >> I have tons of machines to test on, and the knowledge to fix just >> about anything, I just have to be asked. > > OK, but each distribution lives in a little (or large) ecosystem of their > own, and even in the case of Debian where the system is open for everyone to > enter, the actual act of entering the system is necessary in order for > anyone to participate. That's irrelevant to the specific issues being discussed here. Jurij worked on a bug, reported by a niagara user. He tested a fix on his non-niagara system, and had no feedback from the niagara user. He has no access to niagara systsms. So he has no idea if the bug is fixed or not. Jurij, who has worked with me time and time again, over and over, knows that I have such systems can can test anything for him at a moments notice. He fails to ask me to do so, therefore the bug stays in an unknown state and is in fact still broken. > In this case, where you want to be informed when there's new stuff in > Debian's sparc kernel, This was a installer bug, so irrelevant to some of the problems being discussed here. The issue is one of communication. If the debian sparc folks don't communicate with me, things break. This has been proven over and over again, and the distributions with people who communicate actively with me over Sparc issues are the ones that get this stuff fixed promptly before it sneaks into a real release. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: X in lenny: 'cannot run in ramebuffer mode'
This looks like the same error I was getting on my Ultra 10 w/ Creator 3D card under a fresh Lenny/5.0.1 install. Under 5.0.0 it get an error of not having the sunffb module available. I have a thread going on the list about it as well. Jon. On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 5:09 AM, Martin Lemmen wrote: > Hi all, > recently I made a fresh install of lenny on my SPARC. I didn't keep my old > xorg.conf. > Since then, when trying tostart X, I get the error message: > "Fatal server error: > cannot run in framebuffer mode. Please specifyb busIDs for all framebuffer > devices" > > lspci doesn't list anything that sounds like a grafics card. > The (to my knowledge) relevant part of xorg.conf reads: > "Section "Device": > Identifier: "Configured Video device" > Driver: "sunffb" > Option "Useffbdev" "true" > > I guess I need to build the specific driver for my card (some sun grafics > card) into the kernel, but I don't knoew where to find it. Any pointers? > > Best regards, Martin. > > -- > Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: > http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger01 > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmas...@lists.debian.org > >
Re: debian unusable on niagara
On Sun, May 03, 2009 at 03:35:24PM +0200, Sam Ravnborg wrote: > > > > So I suggest that we get some simple diffing done between the two > > > > pieces of software as a basis for documenting any differences, or > > > > making modifications so that they converge. > > > > > > If I had just once seen a "Dave, can you test this image out to make > > > sure this Niagara bug is fixed?", I would have been happy with any > > > result whatsoever. > > > > > > But because that did not happen, I'm understandably irked that things > > > are broken the way that they are. > > > > > > I have tons of machines to test on, and the knowledge to fix just > > > about anything, I just have to be asked. > > > > OK, but each distribution lives in a little (or large) ecosystem of their > > own, and even in the case of Debian where the system is open for everyone to > > enter, the actual act of entering the system is necessary in order for > > anyone to participate. > > > > In this case, where you want to be informed when there's new stuff in > > Debian's sparc kernel, you might want to subscribe yourself to the > > debian-sparc list[1] which is the only Debian sparc port mailing list and > > the place where e.g. calls for testing new kernel images are sent to, > > and maybe to the linux-2.6 package tracking system[2] where you can read > > Debian's Linux kernel package changelogs, which will have references to > > any sparc patches. > > This solution does not scale at all. The distribution ecosystem > that integrate sparc kernel should contact the sparc maintainer. > We cannot expect the saprc maintainer to monitor the traffic > all relevant mailing lists - yet expect him to know them. > > This simply does not scale neither work in practice. > > Yes - you provided pointers to the debian lists but there is > a few more distributions around than just debian. > > We could assume that the debian folks handling sparc are capable > of judging when to ask for help/advice from the sparc kernel maintainer. Sadly, from the last few examples, you can also see that expecting distro kernel maintainers to contact the central one for all sorts of patches or changes also doesn't work in practice. Regarding scale - rather than assuming that it can't work, you should calculate for yourself if the volume of the aforementioned forums is too much a burden, there are statistics and archives available online. David has indicated that he is willing to test other people's kernels on his plethora of machines, which can be a fairly arduous task, so it stands to reason that skimming a couple more mailing lists might be sufficiently less arduous for him that he would we willing to do it. In case of sparc, it should be mentioned that we're at most a stable community, if not diminishing in size... -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian unusable on niagara
On Sat, May 02, 2009 at 05:06:04PM -0700, David Miller wrote: > From: Josip Rodin > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:54:15 +0200 > > > So I suggest that we get some simple diffing done between the two > > pieces of software as a basis for documenting any differences, or > > making modifications so that they converge. > > If I had just once seen a "Dave, can you test this image out to make > sure this Niagara bug is fixed?", I would have been happy with any > result whatsoever. > > But because that did not happen, I'm understandably irked that things > are broken the way that they are. > > I have tons of machines to test on, and the knowledge to fix just > about anything, I just have to be asked. OK, but each distribution lives in a little (or large) ecosystem of their own, and even in the case of Debian where the system is open for everyone to enter, the actual act of entering the system is necessary in order for anyone to participate. In this case, where you want to be informed when there's new stuff in Debian's sparc kernel, you might want to subscribe yourself to the debian-sparc list[1] which is the only Debian sparc port mailing list and the place where e.g. calls for testing new kernel images are sent to, and maybe to the linux-2.6 package tracking system[2] where you can read Debian's Linux kernel package changelogs, which will have references to any sparc patches. These are fairly general forums, so you will probably want to filter them locally and scan the contents for sparc kernel-specific information. (I guess you have the same problem with LKML already...) [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-sparc/ [2] http://packages.qa.debian.org/l/linux-2.6.html -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
X in lenny: 'cannot run in ramebuffer mode'
Hi all, recently I made a fresh install of lenny on my SPARC. I didn't keep my old xorg.conf. Since then, when trying tostart X, I get the error message: "Fatal server error: cannot run in framebuffer mode. Please specifyb busIDs for all framebuffer devices" lspci doesn't list anything that sounds like a grafics card. The (to my knowledge) relevant part of xorg.conf reads: "Section "Device": Identifier: "Configured Video device" Driver: "sunffb" Option "Useffbdev" "true" I guess I need to build the specific driver for my card (some sun grafics card) into the kernel, but I don't knoew where to find it. Any pointers? Best regards, Martin. -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger01 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian First Boot Problem on Ultra5
charles duncan wrote: Just finished doing a net install of Debian on an Ultra 5. When finished, I booted the system for the first time. I could see the boot precess on the screen but I am no good at speed reading. The last line looked like it says, "Starting network Services (this ", and then the screen goes black save for a single underline '_' at the beginning of the first line. Since I am new to Debian and SUNs, I need some help please. First question: can you ping it? -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-sparc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
