Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

[Jerry Stuckle]

On 10/14/2013 9:28 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 21:12:32 -0400
Jerry Stuckle  wrote:



Maybe where you are, but not in the world scheme of things.

A router is a specific box.  A (A)DSL modem may also contain a
firewall, etc.  But most (A)DSL modems, cable modems, etc., only have
one Ethernet port.  So people install routers in addition to the one
which may or may not be in the (A)DSL modem.

Modems and routers are two entirely different things, with completely
different uses.  One box may contain both - but that does not mean
all modems are routers (or vice versa).


Hear, hear, Jerry! This is how I have always heard them referred to when
I worked as a network admin. A router is a router, and a "cable modem"
may or may not (usually not!) have any routing capability. It is really
a bridge connecting two networks, as I mentioned previously. It doesn't
do any modulating or demodulating. It simply allows the packets to go
from one network to the other.




No, a cable modem does both MOdulation and DEModulation - which is why 
it is called a MODEM.


On the internet, input/output on one side of the modem is digital, 
through an RJ-45 to category cable.


But you can only have one digital signal on a wire.  On the other side 
of the modem is 75 ohm coax cable.  You *could* run the digital signal 
on this cable for a few hundred feet (some systems claim up to around 
1500 feet), but this signal would not be compatible with the other 
signals (standard and hi-def TV and possibly music channels).  As a side 
note, multiple hi-def TV signals, even though they are all digital, 
would not be able to share the same cable as digital signals, either.


Therefore, all these signals (including your internet) are modulated 
onto analog RF signals.  Each signal has its own band, or range of RF 
frequencies it uses (a signal is not a single frequency).  And coming 
the other way, the signal from the cable must be demodulated to convert 
it back to digital.


The cable company has another cable modem on the other end of the line 
to convert the signals between analog and digital, also.


So, you can see, a cable modem truly is a modem.

Jerry


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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

[John Hasler]

Catherine Gramze writes:
> [A cable modem] doesn't do any modulating or demodulating. It simply
> allows the packets to go from one network to the other.

Yes it does.

-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA


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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

[Catherine Gramze]

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 21:12:32 -0400
Jerry Stuckle  wrote:


> Maybe where you are, but not in the world scheme of things.
> 
> A router is a specific box.  A (A)DSL modem may also contain a
> firewall, etc.  But most (A)DSL modems, cable modems, etc., only have
> one Ethernet port.  So people install routers in addition to the one
> which may or may not be in the (A)DSL modem.
> 
> Modems and routers are two entirely different things, with completely 
> different uses.  One box may contain both - but that does not mean
> all modems are routers (or vice versa).
> 
Hear, hear, Jerry! This is how I have always heard them referred to when
I worked as a network admin. A router is a router, and a "cable modem"
may or may not (usually not!) have any routing capability. It is really
a bridge connecting two networks, as I mentioned previously. It doesn't
do any modulating or demodulating. It simply allows the packets to go
from one network to the other.


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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

[Jerry Stuckle]

On 10/14/2013 4:37 AM, Joe wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 07:53:50 +1300
Chris Bannister  wrote:


On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 09:19:18PM +0100, Joe wrote:

though most include routers and other
useless stuff.


  ..when it is normally customary to refer to them as routers.
Pedants might call them modem-routers, but nobody else does.


Um, you can get routers without a modem, so the difference is
important and not just pedantry!



Yes. I know that as well, having two myself. But I am unusual in that
respect, as exceedingly few homes or small-to-medium size businesses
have any need for even one.

In the large majority of networks, 'router' is taken to mean the (A)DSL
modem-router-DNS-server-DHCP-server-firewall-etc that plugs into the
telephone line.



Maybe where you are, but not in the world scheme of things.

A router is a specific box.  A (A)DSL modem may also contain a firewall, 
etc.  But most (A)DSL modems, cable modems, etc., only have one Ethernet 
port.  So people install routers in addition to the one which may or may 
not be in the (A)DSL modem.


Modems and routers are two entirely different things, with completely 
different uses.  One box may contain both - but that does not mean all 
modems are routers (or vice versa).


Jerry


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Strange PGP signature

[Aort Conda]

What is this? The file on official cd mirror is different.


SHA512SUMS
Description: Attachment: SHA512SUMS


SHA512SUMS.sign
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Re: ukash hijacked iceweasel

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 17:27 -0400, John Lindsay wrote:
> Just an update --- ran clamtk (clamav) several times until it was clear. 
> Got avast downloaded and installed and ran it twice. Opened a new 
> iceweasel then closed it -- reopened and got the 'restore sessions' 
> message, selected new session and things are back to normal. Thanks for 
> the information.  Now all I have  to do is get clamtk (4.37) updated to 
> the latest at 4.45.

IMO antivir software for Linux is unneeded, unless a Linux install isn't
a server for usage with Windows.


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Re: ukash hijacked iceweasel

[John Lindsay]

Just an update --- ran clamtk (clamav) several times until it was clear. 
Got avast downloaded and installed and ran it twice. Opened a new 
iceweasel then closed it -- reopened and got the 'restore sessions' 
message, selected new session and things are back to normal. Thanks for 
the information.  Now all I have  to do is get clamtk (4.37) updated to 
the latest at 4.45.


John

On Sun, 2013-10-13 at 09:58 -0400, John Lindsay wrote:
   

>  Somehow my iceweasel has been infected with the UKASH scam. I have tried
>  my kapersky rescue disc and it told me my system has been cleaned (this
>  disc was made late 2011/early 2012 and it did an update prior to
>  scanning). If I run iceweasel after a reboot the ukash blocker shows up.
>  How can I get rid of this without 'blowing' away all the info on my HD
>  (primarily icedove mail).
 



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Re: apt-get upgrade (security packages)

[Linux-Fan]

On 10/14/2013 10:11 PM, Pol Hallen wrote:
>> I think the best way to do this is using a normal Debian stable. There
>> are only few updates to stable which add features which means that
>> update is a security update.
> 
> Huh?
> 
> I use debian 7 stable, but now the upgrade show me 4 security updates
> and MANY MANY updates from debian mirros (not from security repository).

These "mainly add[s] corrections for security problems [...] along with
a few adjustments for serious problems."
(http://www.debian.org/News/2013/20131012).

> I can't everytime do updates from main repository because many packages
> of this server are patched.

Then you can either
 * pin all packages affected by patches which might cause some security
   problems to remain because the packages are not updated
or probably better
 * try to compile all patches in a safe testing environment before
   performing the upgrade. As there are mostly security patches this
   should (ideally) not cause too many failures.

I'd try the second although that might be too much trouble depending on
how many patches and what kind of patches were applied to the packages.

Linux-Fan

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Re: ukash hijacked iceweasel

[André Nunes Batista]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 10:04 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 14:15 +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
> > What? does everyone have their menus turned off?
> > 
> > (Edit menu -> Preferences -> Contents tab -> disable JavaScript.
> > Or am I missing something here?)
> 
> I didn't refer to Iceweasel for Debian, but tried to help the OP to
> solve the issue and I wasn't booted into Debian, but Arch Linux. The
> up-to-date version of Firefox doesn't support to disable javascript
> anymore, resp. you only can do it using about:config and when doing
> this, a warning is displayed, not to edit about:config.
> 
> 
> 

I've been using GNU LibreJS FF extension for the same purposes of
noscript. But there are some websites that really won't work.


-- 
André N. Batista
GNUPG/PGP KEY: 6722CF80



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Re: apt-get upgrade (security packages)

[Pol Hallen]

>   Debian point-release was issued over the weekend:

Understood!

Thanks Steve :-)

Pol


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Re: apt-get upgrade (security packages)

[Pol Hallen]

> I think the best way to do this is using a normal Debian stable. There
> are only few updates to stable which add features which means that
>update is a security update.

Huh?

I use debian 7 stable, but now the upgrade show me 4 security updates
and MANY MANY updates from debian mirros (not from security repository).

I can't everytime do updates from main repository because many packages
of this server are patched.

thanks

apt-get upgrade -d

[...]
Get:3 http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates/main libxml2 i386
2.8.0+dfsg1-7+nmu2 [892 kB]
Get:22 http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates/main libsystemd-login0
i386 44-11+deb7u4 [29.9 kB]
Get:23 http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates/main gpgv i386
1.4.12-7+deb7u2 [220 kB]
Get:24 http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates/main gnupg i386
1.4.12-7+deb7u2 [1,936 kB]

Get:1 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main base-files
i386 7.1wheezy2 [66.9 kB]
Get:2 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main perl i386
5.14.2-21+deb7u1 [3,701 kB]

Get:4 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main libperl5.14
i386 5.14.2-21+deb7u1 [732 kB]
Get:5 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main perl-base
i386 5.14.2-21+deb7u1 [1,495 kB]
Get:6 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main perl-modules
all 5.14.2-21+deb7u1 [3,440 kB]
Get:7 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main sysvinit i386
2.88dsf-41+deb7u1 [131 kB]
Get:8 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main
sysvinit-utils i386 2.88dsf-41+deb7u1 [98.0 kB]
Get:9 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main
imagemagick-common all 8:6.7.7.10-5+deb7u2 [128 kB]
Get:10 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main
libcupsimage2 i386 1.5.3-5+deb7u1 [139 kB]
Get:11 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main libcups2
i386 1.5.3-5+deb7u1 [256 kB]
Get:12 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main curl i386
7.26.0-1+wheezy4 [270 kB]
Get:13 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main libcurl3
i386 7.26.0-1+wheezy4 [336 kB]
Get:14 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main
libcurl3-gnutls i386 7.26.0-1+wheezy4 [328 kB]
Get:15 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main dmsetup i386
2:1.02.74-8 [68.2 kB]
Get:16 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main
libdevmapper1.02.1 i386 2:1.02.74-8 [125 kB]
Get:17 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main
libmagickwand5 i386 8:6.7.7.10-5+deb7u2 [418 kB]
Get:18 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main
libmagickcore5-extra i386 8:6.7.7.10-5+deb7u2 [162 kB]
Get:19 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main
libmagickcore5 i386 8:6.7.7.10-5+deb7u2 [2,002 kB]
Get:20 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main libsensors4
i386 1:3.3.2-2+deb7u1 [53.9 kB]
Get:21 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main
linux-image-3.2.0-4-686-pae i386 3.2.51-1 [22.9 MB]
Get:25 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main php5-cli
i386 5.4.4-14+deb7u5 [2,600 kB]
Get:26 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main php5-cgi
i386 5.4.4-14+deb7u5 [5,182 kB]
Get:27 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main
libapache2-mod-php5 i386 5.4.4-14+deb7u5 [2,623 kB]
Get:28 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main php5-mysql
i386 5.4.4-14+deb7u5 [76.9 kB]
Get:29 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main php5-mcrypt
i386 5.4.4-14+deb7u5 [15.6 kB]
Get:30 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main php5-gd i386
5.4.4-14+deb7u5 [34.4 kB]
Get:31 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main php5-curl
i386 5.4.4-14+deb7u5 [29.4 kB]
Get:32 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main php5-common
i386 5.4.4-14+deb7u5 [587 kB]
Get:33 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main sysv-rc all
2.88dsf-41+deb7u1 [81.8 kB]
Get:34 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main initscripts
i386 2.88dsf-41+deb7u1 [92.0 kB]
Get:35 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main mutt i386
1.5.21-6.2+deb7u1 [1,375 kB]
Get:36 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main python all
2.7.3-4+deb7u1 [181 kB]
Get:37 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main
python-minimal all 2.7.3-4+deb7u1 [42.8 kB]
Get:38 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main dpkg-dev all
1.16.12 [1,349 kB]
Get:39 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main libdpkg-perl
all 1.16.12 [951 kB]
Get:40 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main devscripts
i386 2.12.6+deb7u1 [867 kB]
Get:41 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main ghostscript
i386 9.05~dfsg-6.3+deb7u1 [80.0 kB]
Get:42 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main libgs9 i386
9.05~dfsg-6.3+deb7u1 [1,854 kB]
Get:43 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main
libgs9-common all 9.05~dfsg-6.3+deb7u1 [1,980 kB]
Get:44 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/main grub-pc i386
1.99-27+deb7u2 [170 kB]
Get:45 http://mi.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/debian/ wheezy/mai

Re: apt-get upgrade (security packages)

[Linux-Fan]

On 10/14/2013 09:43 PM, Pol Hallen wrote:
> Howdy :-)
> 
> I've a production server particularly patched. I prefer install only
> security packages but keep others packages to same version.
> 
> Should I've some problems if keep only:
> 
> deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main contrib non-free
> 
> to /etc/apt/sources.list
> 
> or better pin every packages?
> 
> What's the best way to do this?
> 
> thanks!
> 
> Pol

I think the best way to do this is using a normal Debian stable. There
are only few updates to stable which add features which means that every
update is a security update.

HTH
Linux-Fan

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apt-get upgrade (security packages)

[Pol Hallen]

Howdy :-)

I've a production server particularly patched. I prefer install only
security packages but keep others packages to same version.

Should I've some problems if keep only:

deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main contrib non-free

to /etc/apt/sources.list

or better pin every packages?

What's the best way to do this?

thanks!

Pol


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Re: who could take the time to figure out how to contact linux ? so complicated !

[Konrad Neitzel]

Hi!

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 13:57 -0500, Catherine Gramze wrote:

> We need to know first if Larry has a successfully running Debian
> installation, and if so, is it Wheezy, Jessie, Squeeze or Sid?

> I think Larry needs some help to modify his sources.list file to
> include the non-free repository. I know any Debian installation I have
> done does not include the non-free repository by default. Once he has
> that done he can use synaptic to update and then retry to install Flash
> from there. 

> So, Larry: there should be a file /etc/apt/sources.list on your
> Debian computer. This file will have the ftp and http addresses your
> computer uses to find the software that is prepackaged to run correctly
> on your system. Can you find this file?

The non-free part is not required because the flashplugin-nonfree
package is inside the contrib part. (As it is written inside the wiki!)

With kind regards,

Konrad

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Re: who could take the time to figure out how to contact linux ? so complicated !

[Catherine Gramze]

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 14:19:15 +0200
Ralf Mardorf  wrote:

> Please, lets merge the two threads into one?
> 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/10/msg00703.html
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/10/msg00705.html
> 
> Perhaps the OP and anybody else could continue here with replying to
> this request.
> 
> _We_ users from this _user_ community still need to know what skills
> the OP has got. "What" was asking "when" to install Flash, if the OP
> is using Debian or Ubuntu etc. pp..

We need to know first if Larry has a successfully running Debian
installation, and if so, is it Wheezy, Jessie, Squeeze or Sid?

I think Larry needs some help to modify his sources.list file to
include the non-free repository. I know any Debian installation I have
done does not include the non-free repository by default. Once he has
that done he can use synaptic to update and then retry to install Flash
from there. 

So, Larry: there should be a file /etc/apt/sources.list on your
Debian computer. This file will have the ftp and http addresses your
computer uses to find the software that is prepackaged to run correctly
on your system. Can you find this file?


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Re: mediatomb install fails on wheezy

[Jochen Spieker]

Pierre Frenkiel:
> On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, Jochen Spieker wrote:
> 
>>> 
>>>   serious bugs of mediatomb (-> 0.12.1-4) 
>>>   #677959 - mediatomb: fails to build against current version of
>>>   libavformat (Fixed: mediatomb/0.12.1-5)
>>> 
>>> I have several question about this error:
>> 
>> By the way: the above is not an error.
> 
>   I see that:
>   **
>   ** Exiting with an error in order to stop the installation. **
>   **

Oh, ok. You didn't quote that earlier. This list is sometimes frequented
by people who don't know how to quit less when apt-listchanges shows
changelogs and I thought your issue was somehow similar.

>   Although the error comes from apt-listbugs, the result is that the install
>   fails,

I cannot reproduce the above error message:

| Reading package lists... Done
| Building dependency tree   
| Reading state information... Done
| The following NEW packages will be installed:
|   mediatomb
| 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
| Need to get 23.8 kB of archives.
| After this operation, 80.9 kB of additional disk space will be used.
| Get:1 http://http.debian.net/debian/ wheezy/main mediatomb all 0.12.1-4 [23.8 
kB]
| Fetched 23.8 kB in 0s (42.3 kB/s)  
| Retrieving bug reports... Done
| Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done
| serious bugs of mediatomb (-> 0.12.1-4) 
|  #677959 - mediatomb: fails to build against current version of libavformat 
(Fixed: mediatomb/0.12.1-5)
| Summary:
|  mediatomb(1 bug)
| Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] 
| Selecting previously unselected package mediatomb.
| (Reading database ... 102731 files and directories currently installed.)
| Unpacking mediatomb (from .../mediatomb_0.12.1-4_all.deb) ...
| Setting up mediatomb (0.12.1-4) ...

The warning is clearly there but pressing enter defaults to installing
the package anyway.

>> What you did was to disable apt-listbugs without removing it completely.
>> This does nothing to solve the bug that apt-listbugs showed to you. It
>> just prevented the bugreport from being shown during installation.
> 
>   It's exactly what I wanted to do, in order to complete the install.
>   Do you see an other way to achieve this result?
>   Now, reading the man, I found a better way, using the variable
>   APT_LISTBUGS_FRONTEND, which can easily be set or unset with a 5 lines
>   script.
>   Of course, it would be easier to have a prompt from apt-get itself,
>   to ignore or not the apt-listbugs result(to be put in a wish list?)

I cannot figure out what's different on your system either. Apt-listbugs
should never abort package installation without asking you. Strange.

>> http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/other/stable.html
> 
>   thank you for this useful link.
>   how come mediatomb is not listed here. It should be in category:
> "Number that have a fix prepared and waiting to upload:"

Still no. If there is a bug (and not only a misconfiguration on your
machine) then mediatomb has nothing to do with it. The bug report
against mediatomb does not relate to wheezy at all. It is about the same
version as in wheezy but the bug only arises when this version is in
testing.

J.
-- 
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[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: apt-get vs. aptitude

[berenger . morel]

Le 14.10.2013 16:38, Frank McCormick a écrit :

On 14/10/13 09:52 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:



Le 13.10.2013 19:44, Frank McCormick a écrit :

On 13/10/13 01:02 PM, Chris Bannister wrote:

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 01:10:14PM -0300, msl09 wrote:

Oh I have fond memories of aptitude breaking my system. Once it
suggested me to remove most of my system, including apt, I 
thought it
was going to upgrade it so I confirmed it. I had to reinstall apt 
from

the debian packages website.

In this new installation I gave it another try but when it 
started

suggesting very weird plans(like remove all gnome packages) ...


It seems like aptitude has gotten a lot smarter lately. :)




  Not this morning it wasn't.

  Aptitude has been refusing to do a full upgrade on my Jessie 
system
for the past two weeks because it said it needed xorg-video-abi-12 
but
it said it is not installable. Well, not so. I tried running 
Synaptic

this morning and it had no problem finding what it needed and
installing it. I still don't understand what the difference was but
Synaptic did what aptitude said it couldn't do. What could be the
difference ? Does Synaptic not use the same repo source files 
aptitude

uses?

Cheers


Did you tried synaptic just after aptitude, without updating the 
package

list? If not, then maybe the package which gave you problems with
aptitude was added by that update.




   Immediately afterward. I still don't understand it...then again
after using Linux for 10+ years...there are a lot of things I still
don't understand :)

Cheers


Hum... are recommended packages automatically installed by both 
softwares in your configuration? It may be the reason, if aptitude tries 
to upgrade something which recommend a 2nd package, which depends on the 
non-available package, so the recommended package is broken and you need 
to fix the breakage.
If synaptic does not, then the recommended package is not installed, 
and so not broken.


I do not really know, since I usually fix errors myself, by freezing or 
purging packages (I see no real interest into simple removal) which 
cause the problem... but I am really curious :)



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Re: linux debian

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 16:05 +, darkestkhan wrote:
> $ sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude install flashplugin-nonfree

Is aptitude installed by default?

If not, aptitude can be replaced with apt-get.

It might be helpful to install Synaptic first and then to use Synaptic
in the future, to install software.

sudo -i
apt-get update && apt-get install synaptic
synaptic

In the future running

sudo synaptic

is all that has to be done to get a helpful GUI for the package
management. It might be that sudo has to be replaced with gksudo.

When synaptic is opened, a reload (equal to apt-get update) and update
(equal to apt-get upgrade, resp. dist-upgrade) should be done first,
then I would use it to install flashplugin-nonfree. Btw. the
repositories can be edited by Synaptic too.


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Re: Linux Professional Institute Certification (Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude))

[berenger . morel]

Le 14.10.2013 17:01, Joel Rees a écrit :

I'm pretty sure the LPI site is translated into French, too. Yep.


I have absolutely no problem with English... at least when it is 
written :) my speaking is probably ugly, since I can rarely practice it.



Check it out:

http://www.lpi-francophonie.org/


< snip >

The English site is here:

http://www.lpi.org/



Thanks. I will take a look at that.


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Re: linux debian

[darkestkhan]

It is actually quite easy - edit your
/etc/apt/sources.list so that it contains line
(you have to be root to do so (or use sudo)):

deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free
# [ftp address may be slightly different depending on your preferences]

And then you just:
$ sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude install flashplugin-nonfree

-- 

darkestkhan
--
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jid: darkestk...@gmail.com
May The Source be with You.


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Re: mediatomb install fails on wheezy

[Pierre Frenkiel]

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, Jochen Spieker wrote:



   serious bugs of mediatomb (-> 0.12.1-4) 
   #677959 - mediatomb: fails to build against current version of
   libavformat (Fixed: mediatomb/0.12.1-5)

I have several question about this error:


By the way: the above is not an error.


  I see that:
  **
  ** Exiting with an error in order to stop the installation. **
  **

  Although the error comes from apt-listbugs, the result is that the install
  fails,


If you don't know what to do with that information, just uninstall
apt-listbugs.


   I forced the install by commenting out(temporarily), in the config file,
   the line
   DPkg::Pre-Install-Pkgs {"/usr/sbin/apt-listbugs apt || exit 10";};


What you did was to disable apt-listbugs without removing it completely.
This does nothing to solve the bug that apt-listbugs showed to you. It
just prevented the bugreport from being shown during installation.


  It's exactly what I wanted to do, in order to complete the install.
  Do you see an other way to achieve this result?
  Now, reading the man, I found a better way, using the variable
  APT_LISTBUGS_FRONTEND, which can easily be set or unset with a 5 lines
  script.
  Of course, it would be easier to have a prompt from apt-get itself,
  to ignore or not the apt-listbugs result(to be put in a wish list?)




4/ more generally, I had  recently a lot of such apt-listbugs errors when
   trying to install packages. This seems surprizing for a distro
   released about 6 monts ago.


You might be even more surprised about the number of release-critical
bugs in stable. :)

http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/other/stable.html


  thank you for this useful link.
  how come mediatomb is not listed here. It should be in category:
"Number that have a fix prepared and waiting to upload:"

best regards,
--
Pierre Frenkiel


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Re: Problems creating preseed.cfg - syntax?

[Curt]

On 2013-10-14, Richard Owlett  wrote:
>>
>
> Sorry. I had been focused on solving my immediate problem 
> immediately - which I did.
> I've time set aside this afternoon to reproduce the problem and 
> create bug report(s) as required. I'll preserve the error 
> messages as part of those report(s).
>
> Satisfactory?
>
>

Sure, it's just that the info might be of benefit to posterity is all.


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Re: mediatomb install fails on wheezy

[Pierre Frenkiel]

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, Jochen Spieker wrote:


Packages in stable only receive updates for security reasons or in order
to fix other serious bugs. You might be interested in backports:


  I would imagine that a bug which prevents a package to be installed can be 
called
  "serious" !!

  I have since the beginning in my sources.list
 deb http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian wheezy-backports main


But it currently doesn't shop a more recent of mediatomb.


   Why?
   "Backports are recompiled packages from testing"

best regards,
--
Pierre Frenkiel


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Linux Professional Institute Certification (Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude))

[Joel Rees]

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:41 PM,   wrote:
> Le 13.10.2013 14:41, Joel Rees a écrit :
>
>> On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 6:21 AM,   wrote:
>>>
>>> Le 11.10.2013 23:06, Brian a écrit :


 "are you root?"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It does only means you own the system. Not that you can claim to be a
>>> sysadmin. I own my car. I am not a mechanic, but I anyway have the
>>> *authorizations* to tinker it. It's what root, or to be more precise,
>>> uid=0
>>> means in linux OSes.
>>
>>
>> In some countries, owning a car does not authorize you to tinker with it.
>
>
> I did not known that. Not even changing a wheel or repairing motor,
> direction? Sounds strange to me.

Japan is not quite that bad, but you can't, for instance, rebuild your
engine here unless you are a mechanic. I'm not sure what the laws say,
but you just can't get the tools.

It's been a little frustrating for me at times.

> Here we have rights to tinker with our stuff, but to be authorized to use it
> on public space you need the vehicle to fit some conditions. Changing a
> motor to have a more powerful one or adding passenger places which were not
> originally thought are good examples. If you do some of those "tinkering",
> then you have to make a check (not yourself, of course, but by an
> organization. I do not know a lot more about that.)
>
>
>> Many who are the defacto admin for their system(s) do not claim to be
>> a sysadmin. But they are still the only admin the system has.
>
>
> I have no idea about how it works in other countries, but in France, when
> the enterprise is big enough, sysadmins does not take care of single
> systems. That job is left to people with less qualifications.
>
>
>> Sysadmin has multiple meanings, and possession of a piece of paper is,
>> frankly, one of the less meaningful meanings I can think of.

Possibly junior grade sysadmins?

> Could not agree more. Sadly French guys seems to love those damned pieces of
> paper. It is quite problematic for self-learners (as I).
> Sometimes I think that if I had better english skills I could try to work in
> other countries.
>
>
>> (I still
>> plan to take the LPIC level 2 when I have some extra money.)
>>
>> But being able to install and update a debian box is part of what gets
>> tested in the LPIC exams.
>
>
>> If you can get a debian box up and a Fedora
>> box up, if you can read a shell script and have some idea what's going
>> on, if you can set apache up, if you can fiddle with your X server,
>> that's most of a passing grade on the LPIC level 1, and then you can
>> be a Jr. Sysadmin on paper.
>
>
> You are right. But only (so, not being able to understand scripts) being
> able to install your debian box, and then to add it some softwares does not
> mean you could be a sysadmin.

Would it help if we decided to use "system administrator" for the role
we take with managing our own boxes and the abbreviation, capitalized:
Sysadmin, for the job title?

Not that everyone would agree to the distinction.

>> (Well, there are a few more things you want to get down, too.
>> Permissions basics, basics of TCP-IP, SSH and such, but you generally
>> pick those up while you're learning how to install the system and
>> packages.)
>
>
> I wonder if I could pass that test. 1st level does not seems so hard when I
> read you. How many does it costs?

Level 1 is pretty straightforward, maintaining your own box kind of
stuff. Level 2 is where you they start testing the things you point
out in the Sysadmin job role.

I'm pretty sure the LPI site is translated into French, too. Yep. Check it out:

http://www.lpi-francophonie.org/

They have descriptions of the test content, sample tests, and even
some instructional material.

And prices, of course. (For me, tests for level 1 ran about three
days' wages. But I really need a better paying job.)

The English site is here:

http://www.lpi.org/

Fifteen years ago, it was something of a joke, but the certifications
do have some meaning now. I think, if you have passed the level 2
test, a company can be pretty sure they are safe in hiring you for the
entry level (jr. sysadmin) jobs. But many companies will even take the
level 1 cert for entry level, if the applicant is not too old.

One thing it's good for is helping more people learn how to use Linux.

Red Hat certification is a bit more meaningful relative to job titles,
and not much more expensive for the tests. But they do not make it as
accessible. They like to sell training, too. The training programs are
not cheap. It'd cost me a month's wages to take the training for Red
Hat's entry level certification.

-- 
Joel Rees

Be careful where you see conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart.


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Re: mediatomb install fails on wheezy

[Jochen Spieker]

Pierre Frenkiel:
>
> Trying to install mediatomb on wheezy, I got:
> 
>serious bugs of mediatomb (-> 0.12.1-4) 
>#677959 - mediatomb: fails to build against current version of
>libavformat (Fixed: mediatomb/0.12.1-5)
> 
> I have several question about this error:

By the way: the above is not an error. It is simply the output of
apt-listbugs which you are free to ignore. Apt-listbugs only shows
current important bugreports against the packages you are trying to
install. These bugs may or may not be relevant to you.

If you don't know what to do with that information, just uninstall
apt-listbugs.

>I forced the install by commenting out(temporarily), in the config file,
>the line
>DPkg::Pre-Install-Pkgs {"/usr/sbin/apt-listbugs apt || exit 10";};

What you did was to disable apt-listbugs without removing it completely.
This does nothing to solve the bug that apt-listbugs showed to you. It
just prevented the bugreport from being shown during installation.

> 4/ more generally, I had  recently a lot of such apt-listbugs errors when
>trying to install packages. This seems surprizing for a distro
>released about 6 monts ago.

You might be even more surprised about the number of release-critical
bugs in stable. :)

http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/other/stable.html

J.
-- 
If I am asked 'How are you' more than a million times in my life I
promise to explode.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: mediatomb install fails on wheezy

[Jochen Spieker]

Pierre Frenkiel:
> 
> At last, mediatomb 0.12-5 is now provided by Jessie (don't know since how 
> long)
> I suppose it means that it will arrive in Wheezy some day..

No. Packages don't get moved from testing to stable. Ever.

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_debian_archive_basics
http://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.release-lifecycle.html

Packages in stable only receive updates for security reasons or in order
to fix other serious bugs. You might be interested in backports:

http://backports.debian.org/

But it currently doesn't shop a more recent of mediatomb.

J.
-- 
I will not admit to failure even when I know I am terribly mistaken and
have offended others.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

[Curt]

On 2013-10-14, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org  
wrote:
>
> Now that you say it, it's obvious.
> I was simply thinking that HTML was the source of the problem, because 
> I only noticed such problems with HTML mails. Was a stupid reasoning.
>
I can see how one might think that the noobs who use html for simple
text messages on mailing lists are the same exact noobs who don't know
enough to wrap their fricking lines.

But actually there are two overlapping sets, A and B, of which the
intersection (A ∩ B) consists of noobs who both use html and write long,
unwrapped lines that go off the screen--exit, stage right--the worst of
both worlds, so to speak.


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Re: apt-get vs. aptitude

[Frank McCormick]

On 14/10/13 09:52 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:



Le 13.10.2013 19:44, Frank McCormick a écrit :

On 13/10/13 01:02 PM, Chris Bannister wrote:

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 01:10:14PM -0300, msl09 wrote:

Oh I have fond memories of aptitude breaking my system. Once it
suggested me to remove most of my system, including apt, I thought it
was going to upgrade it so I confirmed it. I had to reinstall apt from
the debian packages website.

In this new installation I gave it another try but when it started
suggesting very weird plans(like remove all gnome packages) ...


It seems like aptitude has gotten a lot smarter lately. :)




  Not this morning it wasn't.

  Aptitude has been refusing to do a full upgrade on my Jessie system
for the past two weeks because it said it needed xorg-video-abi-12 but
it said it is not installable. Well, not so. I tried running Synaptic
this morning and it had no problem finding what it needed and
installing it. I still don't understand what the difference was but
Synaptic did what aptitude said it couldn't do. What could be the
difference ? Does Synaptic not use the same repo source files aptitude
uses?

Cheers


Did you tried synaptic just after aptitude, without updating the package
list? If not, then maybe the package which gave you problems with
aptitude was added by that update.




   Immediately afterward. I still don't understand it...then again 
after using Linux for 10+ years...there are a lot of things I still

don't understand :)

Cheers


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Re: apt-get vs. aptitude

[Marcelo Lacerda]

On 10/13/2013 02:31 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 06:04 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:

On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 02:56:13AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 19:40 -0400, Tom H wrote:

I suspect that the problem's in the examples above are simply PEBKAC.


Likely, since the libre to break a system temporarily sometimes is
needed to fix issues, or to make transitions.

We are humans, so something like "Once it suggested me to remove most of
my system, including apt, I thought it was going to upgrade it so I
confirmed it" happens from time to time. ...


Is it that badly worded?


No, but it's a mistake to enter "yes" after unconcentrated reading when
you're root. 1. Unconcentrated reading might cause that you're thinking
"upgrade" while it is a "remove". 2. Even if it's an upgrade, check what
should be upgraded, before you upgrade. Perhaps the distro has got a
homepage with news about latest upgrades.

There's pathological dissociation, but also "normal" dissociation. It's
human to be "unconcentrated". If a human e.g. drives each day the same
way from home to work by car, then it often happens that this quasi is
done "unknowingly"/"automated". You still will notice traffic lights
etc., there's less risk by this "normal" dissociation, but if you do
something administrative this "normality" is dangerous, that's why means
of protection are needed. We should train to change our behaviour, when
doing something administrative, IOW after giving the root password and
we should make backups. Training this does work, but isn't perfect, so
we still could make a mistake.




Regarding my example, the situation happened 1 year ago, the same thing 
happened 2 years before that, it was the first time I tried using 
aptitude, because it seemed more user friendly, at that time, when 
aptitude suggested me to remove important packages I got scared and quit 
from the program thinking that it required a lot more expertise than I had.


My impressions haven't changed since then, but, keeping on the topic, 
perhaps a reason to use aptitude is, as other users have mentioned, the 
relative easy access that it provides to more exotic package resolving 
solutions.


Just to make it clear in my normal package management these are *all* 
commands that I use:


# apt-get update
# apt-get upgrade
# apt-get dist-upgrade
# apt-get install foo-bar
# apt-get install -f
# apt-get remove|purge foo-bar
$ apt-cache search foo
$ apt-cache policy foo-bar
$ dpkg -L foo-bar

I really don't remember a time that I needed anything more complex than 
any of the above commands.



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Re: Problems creating preseed.cfg - syntax?

[Richard Owlett]

Curt wrote:

On 2013-10-14, Richard Owlett  wrote:


There is evidently an additional package required to use all the
features of "debconf-get-selections".

After installing debconf-utils my command bombed with an error
message from a perl script.


It would have been informative and perhaps even edifying to know what
that error was.



Sorry. I had been focused on solving my immediate problem 
immediately - which I did.
I've time set aside this afternoon to reproduce the problem and 
create bug report(s) as required. I'll preserve the error 
messages as part of those report(s).


Satisfactory?



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Re: mediatomb install fails on wheezy

[Pierre Frenkiel]

On Mon, 7 Oct 2013, Chris Bannister wrote:

hi Chris,
Before replying, I waited until the release of the Wheezy version 7.2,
but this changed nothing about mediatomb


1/ what means "fixed mediatomb/0.12.1-5" ?


The bug no longer exists in version 0.12.1-5


  I understood that, but my hidden question was "why does apt-get still
  installs (or more precisely tries to install) version 0.12.1-4" ?
  or "how to get version 0.12.1-5"
  After some browsing about the #677959? bug report, I found:

 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 13:34:25 +
 Source: mediatomb
 Source-Version: 0.12.1-5
 We believe that the bug you reported is fixed in the latest version of
 mediatomb, which is due to be installed in the Debian FTP archive.
 ^^^

  May-be I was too impatient, and it takes more than 4 weeks to install
0.12.1-5, but as apt-get mentions it, I would expect it means that
it is already available. It's rather confusing.


   NB: after that, I downloaded the source, and built it succesfully !!
   (still version 0.12.1-4)


So *you* couldn't reproduce it, doesn't mean bug doesn't exist for
someone. (e.g. did you use same libavformat source as bug submitter?)


  There is in the dowloaded tar file a libav_0.7_support.patch, but the
  bug report  mentions libav_0.11_support.patch




So, I still don't understand why "apt-get install"  fails.


FTBFS, etc are source package errors have nothing to do with "apt-get
install" failing.  Humans still need to read the output of
apt-listbugs and decide for themselves whether that bug will affect
them.

  It's also very confusing that building "by hand" (i.e. ./configure ; make ;..)
  works, and that "apt-get --build source .." fails


*Anyone* can submit a bug at *anytime*.

  in that case, the bug has already been submitted, and marked as "fixed"...

At last, mediatomb 0.12-5 is now provided by Jessie (don't know since how long)
I suppose it means that it will arrive in Wheezy some day..

best regards,
--
Pierre Frenkiel


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pcmanfm mount troubles in jessie

[Main Backup]

Hi!

I have some issues with pcmanfm mount external drives. It happens when I start 
pcmanfm from user.
Ok. So, I have no gnome, kde, systemd or anything like that installed on my 
computer.
I use openbox and pcmanfm for mounting all external drives.
All was well on wheezy and squeeze. I've use this solution -- 
http://blog.dale.id.au/archives/1068 to bypass "Not authorized" problem.
And everything goes well on i386 (EEE PC) and on x86_64 (big brother). Even 
when I've upgrade to jessie.
But a couple of month ago after usual updating of packages (don't remember 
exactly when) I've start to encounter with troubles.
On i386 version pcmanfm now refuses mount external drive, giving "Not 
authorized" window (I start pcmanfm from user). I have to run it from root to mount 
drives.
On x86_64 version there is another strange thing. Pcmanfm see all flash drives, 
external hdd, mount them all even from user, but stops seeing my nokia n900 
drive.
I've plug mobile in USB, and there is nothing. BUT. If I use command fdisk 
/dev/sdg (where sdg is nokia n900 memory), memory drive of my mobile phone 
appears in pcmanfm immedately.

v.v.b.


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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

[Miles Fidelman]

berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:



I know I wont teach that to anyone here, but modems are not computing 
stuff, at all. They are simply here to transform numeric signals to 
analogical ones, and vice versa.


Well and just to continue the level of pedanticism we've gotten to
- there are modem APIs and modem drivers to consider - which are 
computing stuff
- we do have this whole new generation of "software defined modems" 
right down to programmable "waveforms" (the later really being a 
misnomer for coding schemes)


Miles

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

[berenger . morel]

Le 14.10.2013 15:29, Ralf Mardorf a écrit :
On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 15:21 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org 
wrote:

Or simply do not use HTML.


Endless line, for Evolution available by selecting "Preformatted":
This has nothing to do with HTML, I can format my emails using plain
text too, HTML is completely unneeded to do this.

Automatic line break after 72 signs, Evolution calls this "Normal":
This has nothing to do with HTML, I can format my emails using plain
text too, HTML is completely unneeded to do this.


Now that you say it, it's obvious.
I was simply thinking that HTML was the source of the problem, because 
I only noticed such problems with HTML mails. Was a stupid reasoning.



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Re: apt-get vs. aptitude

[berenger . morel]

Le 13.10.2013 19:44, Frank McCormick a écrit :

On 13/10/13 01:02 PM, Chris Bannister wrote:

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 01:10:14PM -0300, msl09 wrote:

Oh I have fond memories of aptitude breaking my system. Once it
suggested me to remove most of my system, including apt, I thought 
it
was going to upgrade it so I confirmed it. I had to reinstall apt 
from

the debian packages website.

In this new installation I gave it another try but when it started
suggesting very weird plans(like remove all gnome packages) ...


It seems like aptitude has gotten a lot smarter lately. :)




  Not this morning it wasn't.

  Aptitude has been refusing to do a full upgrade on my Jessie system
for the past two weeks because it said it needed xorg-video-abi-12 
but

it said it is not installable. Well, not so. I tried running Synaptic
this morning and it had no problem finding what it needed and
installing it. I still don't understand what the difference was but
Synaptic did what aptitude said it couldn't do. What could be the
difference ? Does Synaptic not use the same repo source files 
aptitude

uses?

Cheers


Did you tried synaptic just after aptitude, without updating the 
package list? If not, then maybe the package which gave you problems 
with aptitude was added by that update.



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Re: Problems creating preseed.cfg - syntax?

[Richard Owlett]

Bob Proulx wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:

I'm having several problems getting desired results from preseeding.
My Environment:
   No internet/LAN
   Install media
  Debian GNU/Linux 7.1.0 "Wheezy" - Official i386 DVD Binary-1 
20130615-21:54
   preseed.cfg on USB stick


You and Brian and I had an good discussion about this last year.  Well
I thought Brian and I had a great discussion anyway.  :-)


I'll see your :-) and raise you a ROFL ;/



   http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/12/thrd2.html#00516


Having a fairly complete local copy (being high speed 
challenged), I just reviewed those ~50 messages (of the 300+ 
preseed related).




I still think you should consider a LAN (local, with emphasis on
local, network) for your case.  I understand you don't want to use a
WAN in any way.  That's fine.  But a LAN is not a WAN.


There a a number of _personal_ constraints which preclude that 
approach.




Second best I think you should create a custom initrd on your usb
installation image.  Then put those early preseed questions there.
That seems the most trouble free way.


I don't know what would be involved in that and how much 
time/effort would be consumed with background self-education.




I should play with the USB preseed.  I don't know enough about it.
But reading through the docs it just didn't seem like the best way to
do things.  Which is why I headed straigth for the initrd preseed.


A preseed.cfg on a USB stick should work fine. I suspect it will 
have advantages over several alternatives that have been 
suggested over the last 18 months - or more.


Besides, I see a potential benefit to the Debian project. Doing 
an install from physical DVD, using a preseed.cfg on a USB stick, 
and having no networking appears to be what is sometimes referred 
to as a "corner test case". [c.f. Murphy's Law ;]





# To get a list of every possible question that could be asked
# during an install, do an installation, and then run these commands:
#   debconf-get-selections --installer > file
#   debconf-get-selections >> file


Note - I quoted that from the official install docs 



Just a general comment about that strategy.  That is a good way to get
a raw dump of everything.  I have even seen it recommended to use that
file as the preseed file.  But I think that is not maintainable.  It
is too much of a raw dump.  I did that too originally.  But then I
found it better to list the minimum configuration needed and to
comment each one appropriately.  So while it is reasonable to start
out that way eventually you outgrow it.


I needed a very raw dump to search out what values had been 
assigned to a half dozen parameters when I had done an install in 
full manual mode.






Unfortunately when I try bash responds "command not found".
The existing install was a manual install from DVD1 using default
answers except for user/password/etc. Confirmed debconf installed by
checking with synaptic.


Install debconf-utils.  /usr/bin/debconf-get-selections is in the
debconf-utils package.

There are two ways to find out what package contains a file.

   # apt-get install apt-file
   # apt-file update
   $ apt-file search /usr/bin/debconf-get-selections
   debconf-utils: /usr/bin/debconf-get-selections

And there is an online search form for just such things too.

   http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages

Scroll down to "Search the contents of packages".  Paste in the file
path /usr/bin/debconf-get-selections.  Optionally set the
Distribution.  Click "Search".

   File Packages
   /usr/bin/debconf-get-selections  debconf-utils

Bob




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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

[berenger . morel]

Le 14.10.2013 10:37, Joe a écrit :

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 07:53:50 +1300
Chris Bannister  wrote:


On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 09:19:18PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> > though most include routers and other
> > useless stuff.
>
>  ..when it is normally customary to refer to them as routers.
> Pedants might call them modem-routers, but nobody else does.

Um, you can get routers without a modem, so the difference is
important and not just pedantry!



Yes. I know that as well, having two myself. But I am unusual in that
respect, as exceedingly few homes or small-to-medium size businesses
have any need for even one.

In the large majority of networks, 'router' is taken to mean the 
(A)DSL

modem-router-DNS-server-DHCP-server-firewall-etc that plugs into the
telephone line.


And which does the interface between 2 networks. This one being the 
most important role from the end-user point of view, I think that the 
word router is good enough for them.


I know I wont teach that to anyone here, but modems are not computing 
stuff, at all. They are simply here to transform numeric signals to 
analogical ones, and vice versa. I wonder why someone would explicitly 
call the boxes "router-modem"... It would be like calling PC: 
computer-screen-mouse-keyboard-windows ( or linux, this one was for the 
trolling).
Nobody does, because it is obvious that the computer will need some 
interfaces with humans. For routers, it is quite obvious that it will 
need to be able to communicate with networks it is connected to, so 
really no use for the modem word here.



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Re: apt-get vs. aptitude

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 15:27 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
> But, it definitely is a user's... no, sorry, a root's error. A root 
> should not act or think like a user. (damn, outside of linux context, 
> that phrase really means nothing...)

:D



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Re: apt-get vs. aptitude

[berenger . morel]

Le 13.10.2013 04:18, green a écrit :

Tom H wrote at 2013-10-12 18:40 -0500:
I suspect that the problem's in the examples above are simply 
PEBKAC.


I use aptitude, and find it to be *more* useful than apt because of
its *interactive* dependency resolver.  Probably if people have
trouble with aptitude it is because the package selection scoring
(which is configurable) is not quite perfect for all cases and they 
do

not know about the interactive resolver (normally accessed with `e`)
when a package is marked as "broken".

The resolver allows the user to mark a particular suggestion of the
resolver (eg. "remove gnome") as *rejected* (`r`).  The resolver will
never suggest that action again and will usually soon find an
appropriate action, or that there is no possible action to satisfy
both the user and dependencies.

This feature of aptitude is somewhat more useful to me because I have
some extra repositories enabled beside Debian stable (I also use
pinning).


I love aptitude, but I really would like to be able to disable that 
solver. It makes aptitude slow when you are solving issues by yourself.


What I like with aptitude is the ncurse interface, with it's colors to 
show package's states, the preview, and to be able to browse in repo to 
find the package which fit your needs more than the others (debtags is 
nice for that).



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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 15:21 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
> Or simply do not use HTML.

Endless line, for Evolution available by selecting "Preformatted":
This has nothing to do with HTML, I can format my emails using plain text too, 
HTML is completely unneeded to do this.

Automatic line break after 72 signs, Evolution calls this "Normal":
This has nothing to do with HTML, I can format my emails using plain
text too, HTML is completely unneeded to do this.


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Re: apt-get vs. aptitude

[berenger . morel]

Le 12.10.2013 18:10, msl09 a écrit :

Oh I have fond memories of aptitude breaking my system. Once it
suggested me to remove most of my system, including apt, I thought it
was going to upgrade it so I confirmed it. I had to reinstall apt 
from

the debian packages website.



That's why I do not use simple CLI tools to manage my system. They just 
fail to show important stuff, by flooding a lot of informations.
Using aptitude in it's ncurse mode would have prevented such a PEBCAK 
error, because updates and removal are shown with different colors.


But, it definitely is a user's... no, sorry, a root's error. A root 
should not act or think like a user. (damn, outside of linux context, 
that phrase really means nothing...)



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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

[berenger . morel]

Le 13.10.2013 23:23, Bob Proulx a écrit :

Mark Allums wrote:

Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> I don't nag about endless lines,
> ...
> It's not the end of the world, but unfavourable when you argument 
about
> not running into issues with your computer, while causing issues 
for the

> list, when you're using Windows,
> ...
> IOW you might not experience issues with your computer, with Mate 
and/or

> Windows, but you at least cause issues when using Windows.


I believe it is _possible_ to use Windows without causing problems.
In theory anyway.  But it is definitely very much harder to do so.


In practice too. When I was a windows user, I did not gave problems to 
other people. At least, in the last years when I had enough knowledge :)



This has nothing to do with Windows.  You need to set your MUA to
use word wrap.  Stop bitching about Windows and fix your MUA.


Negative.  This is controlled by the sender.  If you want your text 
to

be word wrapped by the reader then the sender is obliged to set
format=flowed.  Outlook has long been wrongly sending long lined
messages without using that setting.  But it is wrong.

Bob


Or simply do not use HTML. I do not format my mails, I simply write 
them in plain text, and let something doing it. It seems to be ok for 
readers? ( this mail is a 3 line one, seen on my screen. And because 
this one is automatically wrapped). I believe it can be achieved with 
outlook or whatever crappy client you use.



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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

[berenger . morel]

Le 13.10.2013 20:41, Chris Bannister a écrit :

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 12:11:01AM +0200,
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:

>If you own a system you control it and can do whatever you like
>with it.
>You can give yourself whatever label you want (sysadmin,
>superuser, top
>dog etc) - it matters not. How about "Debian Despot"?

Oh, of course, if you speak about giving yourself a label, then,
fine. Take the one you want. But, it does not mean that you can
claim to be a professional, or that you can say someone is a
professional.


Nowhere has anyone said that administering your own system makes you 
a

professional system administrator.


In my mind, sysadmin is a term to qualify professionals, or people able 
to take that role on real organizations, not simply on the family level. 
(1)



Take the label you want. But if you take the label of "programmer"
because you can only write a hello world, and will own the source
code. But then do not be surprised if other people gives you the
label of "liar".


WTF! What is this "label" business? Do qualifications exist in your
country?


Of course they do. And they are regarded like if they were everything.
The problem is, that they mean almost nothing in reality.
Someone with a high qualification is not necessarily better than people 
without any.



When someone applies for a job, whatever "label" they give
themselves doesn't matter a hoot, if they don't have the necessary
experience/qualifications then they won't get the job.


A quite simplistic vision.


Is the level of corruption in your country an issue in this regard?


I can not judge corruption levels, but, for example, if you have a 
friend which works somewhere, it can become suddenly easier to work 
there, if he have a good reputation and talk for you.
Another example if is your friend (or family member, of course) 
represent a huge client of an enterprise, it can help too. You will be 
paid according to your qualifications, of course, and for some works you 
will need those qualifications and/or experience anyway, but it makes 
things easier.


Easier does not means automatic, of course.


It is the same with sysadmin. You can own your computer, be only
able to install softwares and use those excuses to label yourself a
sysadmin. But then, other people are also free to give you the label
of liar.


Don't confuse "role" and  "profession/career". A person can be a 
weekend

mechanic (role) but not be a mechanic (profession/career).


(1)
In the sysadmin role, there is much more than simply install things. 
Most people I know do not even upgrade their systems, if the system does 
not do it by default.

Luckily, windows have automatic updates.
Still, most people I know installs lot of crap, without understanding 
anything about that. Sometimes, they do not even understand that they 
are installing something.


How could I consider those people as sysadmin? It would be an insult to 
the real ones.
It is exactly like considering the 1st guy able to "build" an excel 
file with 3 formulas make by the software (you know, when you ask it to 
interpret your actions to make a formula, which can result in more 
"if-then-else" that the software can show... I have seen that, it really 
exists. I had to use gnumeric to be able to see the entire formula, and 
to paste it in a real text editor to understand it...), and call him 
programmer. Or to say that someone only able to change his car's oil 
with the oil someone gave him/her (so, not being able to check if it is 
the right oil considering the motor and the temperature of where he/she 
lives) is a mechanic.


Yes, that person would be able to take very minor, trivial parts of the 
role, but not the whole role. Really, maintaining your tools is part of 
their usage. So I would name people able to install his system a user. 
Maybe advanced user, depending on the mood and the guy. Not an admin. 
I'm not a mechanic. I'm a car user. I'm not a sysadmin, I am a computer 
user (well, not strictly true since I do some programming)



The truth here is simple: you are not what you want, only other
people can define who you really are.


That is very sad that you think this way.


I think it's how things work. People can want to be something a lot, 
being sysadmin or electrician or whatever, they won't become one by 
simple will. They need to work to become something. By work, I do not 
mean have a job, of course.
And if you effectively *are* something but nobody recognize you, then I 
do not think you will think to be one yourself.

At least, it is my opinion, and I can not see why it is sad.


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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 14:57 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 14:41 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
> > > In some countries, owning a car does not authorize you to tinker
> > > with it.
> > 
> > I did not known that. Not even changing a wheel or repairing motor, 
> > direction?
> 
> Usually in those countries, e.g. in Germany, you are allowed to do
> everything yourself, but only firms with a special foremen are allowed
  ^^
> to do this as a business. Some changes to the car's design require an
^^

And here I'm mistaken, a special foremen isn't needed as long as
repairing cars isn't the main business. If somebody sells second hand
cars, it's allowed to repair the cars without a special foreman. The
main business has to be selling cars and repairing the cars is just a
side business.

Only when the main business is repairing cars, such a foreman is needed.

Assumed this doc isn't outdated and I shouldn't have misunderstood
something when I skimmed the text.

http://www.hannover.ihk.de/fileadmin/data/Dokumente/Themen/Recht/mb_durchf%C3%BChrung_von_kfz_reparaturen_ohne_meister.pdf

> approbation by a technical control board, replacing or repairing things
> doesn't require this.
> 
> In what countries is it forbidden? I always thought regarding to this
> Germany has got the hardest laws on this planet.
> 



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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 14:41 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
> > In some countries, owning a car does not authorize you to tinker
> > with it.
> 
> I did not known that. Not even changing a wheel or repairing motor, 
> direction?

Usually in those countries, e.g. in Germany, you are allowed to do
everything yourself, but only firms with a special foremen are allowed
to do this as a business. Some changes to the car's design require an
approbation by a technical control board, replacing or repairing things
doesn't require this.

In what countries is it forbidden? I always thought regarding to this
Germany has got the hardest laws on this planet.



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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

[berenger . morel]

Le 13.10.2013 14:41, Joel Rees a écrit :
On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 6:21 AM,   
wrote:

Le 11.10.2013 23:06, Brian a écrit :


"are you root?"



It does only means you own the system. Not that you can claim to be 
a

sysadmin. I own my car. I am not a mechanic, but I anyway have the
*authorizations* to tinker it. It's what root, or to be more 
precise, uid=0

means in linux OSes.


In some countries, owning a car does not authorize you to tinker with 
it.


I did not known that. Not even changing a wheel or repairing motor, 
direction? Sounds strange to me.
Here we have rights to tinker with our stuff, but to be authorized to 
use it on public space you need the vehicle to fit some conditions. 
Changing a motor to have a more powerful one or adding passenger places 
which were not originally thought are good examples. If you do some of 
those "tinkering", then you have to make a check (not yourself, of 
course, but by an organization. I do not know a lot more about that.)



Many who are the defacto admin for their system(s) do not claim to be
a sysadmin. But they are still the only admin the system has.


I have no idea about how it works in other countries, but in France, 
when the enterprise is big enough, sysadmins does not take care of 
single systems. That job is left to people with less qualifications.


Sysadmin has multiple meanings, and possession of a piece of paper 
is,

frankly, one of the less meaningful meanings I can think of.


Could not agree more. Sadly French guys seems to love those damned 
pieces of paper. It is quite problematic for self-learners (as I).
Sometimes I think that if I had better english skills I could try to 
work in other countries.



(I still
plan to take the LPIC level 2 when I have some extra money.)

But being able to install and update a debian box is part of what 
gets

tested in the LPIC exams.



If you can get a debian box up and a Fedora
box up, if you can read a shell script and have some idea what's 
going

on, if you can set apache up, if you can fiddle with your X server,
that's most of a passing grade on the LPIC level 1, and then you can
be a Jr. Sysadmin on paper.


You are right. But only (so, not being able to understand scripts) 
being able to install your debian box, and then to add it some softwares 
does not mean you could be a sysadmin.



(Well, there are a few more things you want to get down, too.
Permissions basics, basics of TCP-IP, SSH and such, but you generally
pick those up while you're learning how to install the system and
packages.)


I wonder if I could pass that test. 1st level does not seems so hard 
when I read you. How many does it costs?



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Re: 64-bit VM on 32-bit host OS on 64-bit hardware

[Luca Cappelletti]

On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Andre Majorel  wrote:
> Can you run an amd64 virtual machine if the host is running
> Debian i386 ? The hardware would be a recent AMD CPU, so
> Pacifica/AMD-V is available.
>
> The virtualisation systems I'm most interested in are KVM and
> Xen but if this sort of configuration is not possible under
> every platform virtual machines, I'd like to know about it.
>
> Thanks in advance.

you have a chance installing a 64 bit kernel and tuning a little bit
to be more 64 bit compliant maintaining your original 32 bit
installation

At the moment I'm experimenting a mixed environment with a 64 bit
kernel on a previous 32 bit installation and it works really well

bye,

Luca


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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

[berenger . morel]

Le 13.10.2013 15:40, Joel Rees a écrit :
On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 7:11 AM,   
wrote:

[...] if you think that people are free to
give themselves the label they want, so you must accept that other 
are also

free to give the labels they want.
Long time ago, I studied the "dark side of computer sciences", and 
the first
things I have learn are that you can not claim to be a hacker, or 
elite,
or... If you do so, then people will name you lamer. You are a 
hacker if

other people recognize you as such.


There is a difference between the three words.


Of course.



Elite is something that truly elite people do not try to be. Nor do
they care if they are called such. That's the irony of "l33+".

Hacker is, again, not something you try to be. Either you hack or you
hesitate. People (like me) who tend to talk tend not to hack so much.

System administrator is actually a role that needs to be filled.

The truth here is simple: you are not what you want, only other 
people can

define who you really are.


Which I can acknowledge is relevant about "elite hackers", but I 
think

it's missing the point about system administrators.

If you (the general "you") own hardware that doesn't have a system
administrator, you need to fix that situation. Maybe it means you 
need

to step into the role.


Being able to fit the role for minor and simple tasks does not makes 
you able to do the whole role. Installing OSes and applications in a 
end-user way is quite trivial.
sysadmin is, for me and other (I hope), someone which is of course able 
to do those minor tasks, but also to manage really more difficult ones. 
Like installing OSes and applications automatically on more than one 
computer, depending on the use of that computer (programming, writing 
for the boss, taking care of money, etc).
For example, a windows sysadmin will need to understand how active 
directory works. In other things.
This is really more complex than the basic usage. Anyway, I think the 
problem we really have in this discussion is that we do not use same 
words for same things.



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Re: pcmanfm no window/gui, one user only

[berenger . morel]

Le 13.10.2013 13:44, Tazman Deville a écrit :

On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 08:11:10PM +0200, Tony Baldwin wrote:

Friends,

For some reason, when I try to use pcmanfm as my user, I can not.
I can start it as other users on the system, or with gksu or sudo,
but not for my user.


So it must be a configuration problem, or other users would have the 
same problem.
You could try a diff between your configuration and another user ( do 
not only compare pcmanfm's files, it could be related to other stuff ).


Or a longer but reliable technique:
1) move all your configuration files into another directory, so that 
the system won't be able to find them.

2) Run pcmanfm.
3) if it works, move 1 configuration file from the temp directory you 
made to it's original place. If it does not, move it to another 
directory (say, conf_problem, for example).

4) go to 2 until you still have files into the temporary directory.
5) Take a look at all files in conf_problem, and read them to 
understand what could be problematic. If you do not understand, then 
integrate their content bloc per bloc, as you did for files.


This is the desperate solution I use, when everything failed. It's long 
and boring, but always worked for me. Using diff (or meld, which is 
probably smarter since it is an interactive application, not a simple 
program. For comparing a lot of data, diff is not the right tool for me. 
Simply my opinion.) can give you a faster understanding


Or, really, what happens is, it seems to start (can find processes 
and kill them),

but no window appears. It seems to hang.

I tried to use gdb, but get no debug information.
What happens there is the whole thing (gdb and pcmanfm) hangs,
doing nothing, until I kill pcmanfm again, and gdb tells me nothing.


You need pcmanfm-dbg to have symbols, it might help. However, I have 
never tried it myself.
Also, you will need to put a breakpoint before running, or will need to 
manually interrupt application's workflow ( I have no idea about how to 
do that, but I know it is possible since some frontends seems to be able 
to do that)
But I honestly doubt that you will find anything interesting this way. 
Maybe if you compile it yourself, at least you could have the source 
code when debugging, which will give you more precise hints about where 
it have a problem.



When I run it from terminal, likewise, I find no errors, nothing.
Just hangs (even if I run the command with pcmanfm &, it just hangs 
the

terminal).


Sadly, it does not seem to have a verbose mode.

Yes, also, of course, I have killalled any such processes several 
times

before trying to start it again.


Several times is not useful, if it does not work at start, it won't 
work until the problem is here. At least for such "simple" programs.
I mean by simple, that it does not have to use lot of external info, 
only filesystem and user's action, when it runs. Speaking about 
filesystem, do you have a different partition than other users? Do you 
use cryptography? Or other file-related voodoo magic? That would not be 
very usual, but who knows...


I've also tried with other WMs (I use openbox as a standalone, but 
have
also now tried with LXDE and with wmii, and still no joy. Have no 
other

WMs on the system at this time).
This is on wheezy.


Again, if it works with a WM for other users, it should work with the 
same for you. So the problem is obviously not the WM.



I've even tried replacing my conf files in
~/.config/pcmanfm/{default,LXDE}/pcmanfm.conf
with the files from another user (and chowning them to me, of 
course),

to determine if there were something amiss in my config files,
but, alas, this too proved unproductive.
I don't know what else to do.


It may be a problem made by other configuration files. Like a gtk 
theme. No problem with other application? It could give you some hints.



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Re: who could take the time to figure out how to contact linux ? so complicated !

[Ralf Mardorf]

Please, lets merge the two threads into one?

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/10/msg00703.html
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/10/msg00705.html

Perhaps the OP and anybody else could continue here with replying to
this request.

_We_ users from this _user_ community still need to know what skills the
OP has got. "What" was asking "when" to install Flash, if the OP is
using Debian or Ubuntu etc. pp..

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: [bulk]: who could take the time to figure out how to contact linux ? so complicated !

[Konrad Neitzel]

Hi Larry!

> larry mckenna  hat am 14. Oktober 2013 um 12:25
> geschrieben:
> 

>  hi, you are not listening ! i can down load flash player too debian but it
> will not install i get either, find supporting software or else i get ;
> address not recognised, i can't install anything esle it will down load ubuntu
> but it will not open and install ! larry mc kenna.
> 
I understood what you was writing. But you have to understand:

a) If you want to have flash on debian, the correct solution is to simply
install the debian packages for flash. So I provided thedetails on this
solution.

b) if you want to go some other way (Which you shouldn't do if you do not have
the knowledge that is required), then you simply have to give details:
- What did you download?
- What did you try to install the downloaded files?

c) regarding Ubuntu: If you need help on installation of Ubuntu, you should
- Ask on an ubuntu list. (On a debian list you will not find a lot of ubuntu
users)
- Read the documentation of ubuntu. I am quite sure that they provide step by
step description on how to install ubuntu. (e.g. what file to download and how
to burn them to a CD / DVD or write them to a usb stick). But please be aware
that the core steps are the same and even on ubuntu you should install software
from a package if a package is available and not simply download something from
the net. And if you have any reaasons why you want to get it directly from the
net, then provide more details.

And last but not least: Try to stick to the list. That way others could help,
too. (This might be a good case. Maybe we both have the feeling that the other
is simply not understanding what we are writing. So maybe someone else
understands both of us and might be able to help.). So please understand that I
CCed this reply to the list again so you can get a better support experience.

With kind regards,

Konrad

Re: Re: linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 unbootable: /dev/disk/by-uuid not created

[Stefan Boresch]

Hi everyone,

just wanting to point out that this is biting me as well (Debian sid,
first dist-upgrade since about a week). I am wondering if the
problem is not a bit further up the chain ..:

I have two physical disks, partitions on which are either raid0 or raid1 
managed by mdadm. Looking at my boot log, md assembles them just fine, 
but at the end of the exercise: md0: unknown partition table (and 
similarly for md1, md2 and md3).  The filesystems on these are ext4 
(actually not sure what I used for /dev/md0 = /boot)

As for the user starting this thread, /dev/disk/by-uuid is empty (aside
from links to devices not under mdadm control)

When I do from the initramfs shell a modprobe ext4 (which curiously is not
loaded at this stage), I can mount /dev/md1 (= /) without problems, but
that doesn't really help me to continue.

Thanks,

Stefan


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Re: linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 unbootable: /dev/disk/by-uuid not created

[Tom H]

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 7:26 AM, Jesse Molina  wrote:
> On 10/12/13 2:40 AM, Jesse Molina wrote:
>>
>> I have a Debian unstable host which successfully boots from the
>> linux-image-3.10-1-amd64 kernel package.  However, I recently installed the
>> linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 kernel package, and it is unbootable.
>>
>> When I boot from the linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 package kernel, the boot
>> fails and drops me into the initramfs busybox.  The messge "Gave up waiting
>> for the root device." appears, along with "ALERT!
>> /dev/disk/by-uuid/bla-bla-bla-my-id-here does not exist.".
>>
>> The problem appears to be that udev is not creating /dev/disk/by-uuid/*
>> and similar objects.  The only directory being created in /dev/disk is
>> "by-id".  Note that the mdadm arrays are being successfully assembled and I
>> can see them if I cat /proc/mdstat.
>>
>> the root= argument in grub is a UUID of a mdadm RAID1 array.  This host's
>> boot part is a RAID1, and the root part is a RAID5.  This is standard PC
>> desktop hardware with four disk drives upon which the md RAIDs are built.
>>
>> The host has been dist-upgraded as of this time.
>>
>> Advice appreciated.  Otherwise, I'll file a bug on it.
>
> This is confimed bug # 726237.  It's actually mdadm.  Bad udev rule file.
>
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=726237

Please bottom-post.

I was about to check how to use udevadm to reply to your previous
email; I'm glad that you've saved me the headache! :)

I should've thought of asking you about the udev md device rule rather
than the udev sd device rule. :(


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Re: Logitech unified wireless

[Dan Ritter]

On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 02:05:17PM -0500, Catherine Gramze wrote:
> I ran into a snag getting this set up on my new computer. I found a gem
> of info online, telling me I had to use a USB 2 port and not a USB 3
> port, but it still wouldn't work.
> 
> I finally figured out it was a pairing problem, due to me having
> multiple keyboards, mice, and unifying receivers. I used the Logitech
> app on my Mac to set which keyboard went with which receiver, and after
> some musical receiver plugging and unplugging it all works perfectly
> now. 
> 
> Just thought I would share in case anybody else runs into this scenario.

There's a utility called solaar which can reprogram Logitech
mice and keyboards to use a plugged-in receiver; it's at
http://pwr.github.io/Solaar/index.html

-dsr-


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Re: linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 unbootable: /dev/disk/by-uuid not created

[Jesse Molina]

This is confimed bug # 726237.  It's actually mdadm.  Bad udev rule file.

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=726237



On 10/12/13 2:40 AM, Jesse Molina wrote:


Hi

I have a Debian unstable host which successfully boots from the 
linux-image-3.10-1-amd64 kernel package.  However, I recently 
installed the linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 kernel package, and it is 
unbootable.


When I boot from the linux-image-3.10-3-amd64 package kernel, the boot 
fails and drops me into the initramfs busybox.  The messge "Gave up 
waiting for the root device." appears, along with "ALERT! 
/dev/disk/by-uuid/bla-bla-bla-my-id-here does not exist.".


The problem appears to be that udev is not creating 
/dev/disk/by-uuid/* and similar objects.  The only directory being 
created in /dev/disk is "by-id".  Note that the mdadm arrays are being 
successfully assembled and I can see them if I cat /proc/mdstat.


the root= argument in grub is a UUID of a mdadm RAID1 array.  This 
host's boot part is a RAID1, and the root part is a RAID5.  This is 
standard PC desktop hardware with four disk drives upon which the md 
RAIDs are built.


The host has been dist-upgraded as of this time.

Advice appreciated.  Otherwise, I'll file a bug on it.






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Re: Problems preseeding Wheezy (7.1)

[Tom H]

On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Richard Owlett  wrote:
> Tom H wrote:
>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Richard Owlett 
>> wrote:
>>> Tom H wrote:
 On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Richard Owlett 
 wrote:
> Tom H wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Richard Owlett 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 2. I base my preseed.cfg on the example at
>>> http://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/example-preseed.txt . Near the
>>> end
>>> of
>>> the install process I'm asked to specify a keyboard layout though one
>>> was
>>> specified near the beginning of the file.
>>
>> Pass "DEBCONF_DEBUG=5" to the commandline and, when the installation
>> stops, switch to VT4 to see which preseed value is blocking the
>> progress
>
> The relavant line appears to be
> Oct 11 19:15:56 debconf: --> INPUT critical
> keyboard-configuration/layout

 So you need to preseed keyboard-configuration/layout.
>>>
>>> How ;)
>>> I followed the pastern of a legal line I.E.:
>>>   # keymap is an alias for keyboard-configuration/xkb-keymap
>>>   d-i keymap select us
>>> I tried both:
>>>  d-i keyboard-configuration/layout select English (US)
>>> and
>>>  d-i keyboard-configuration/layout select us
>>> neither worked.
>>>
>>> I found a workaround based on
>>> http://lists.debian.org/k8ktht$mt5$1...@ger.gmane.org
>>> by adding to the boot command
>>>  keymap=us debian-installer/keymap=us
>>
>> d-i keyboard-configuration/layout string us
>
> Just tried. It didn't apparently do anything. I'm still prompted to specify
> keyboard layout :<
>>
>> What you added corresponds to
>> d-i debian-installer/keymap string us
>
> Hmmm that works in preseed.cfg.
>>
>> but if it works, why not?
>
> 'Cause I see lots of installs in my future.
> 'Cause I've detail oriented outlook. I want to know how things work want
> them to work "right".

I most certainly agree with a detailed-oriented outlook but I don't
see how adding a kernel command-line argument based on an old and
resolved bug can be considered detailed-oriented. It's haphazard
tinkering at best.

The only arguments that I have to add to a Debian-7-preseeded install
are "auto=true priority=critical url=http://ip-address/preseed-file";;
and I would've thought, given the length of time that you've been on
this list to ask questions about installation and preseeding, that
you'd be doing so too.

If you want to be systematic, you should boot with "auto=true
priority=critical url=http://ip-address/preseed-file
DEBCONF_PRIORITY=5" and correct your preseed file according to the
syslog on vt4 should the installation process pause because of an
unseeded variable.


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Re: linux debian

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 12:55 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> If you manually downloaded a .deb you can install it by
> 
> su
> cd /path/to/the/downloaded/package.deb
> dpkg -i package.deb

For a default Ubuntu (and perhaps for current default Debian installs
too)

sudo -i
cd /path/to/the/downloaded/package.deb
dpkg -i package.deb




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Re: linux debian

[Ralf Mardorf]

There was a typo that could confuse a newbie, so I correct only this
typo:

> It might be, that your repositories list doesn't include "non-free",
> then apt-get etc. don't have access to _repositories_ that provide
> proprietary packages.



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Re: linux debian

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 11:17 +0100, larry mckenna wrote:
> hi ralph, thnaks for getting back ! why can i not install packages
> after downloading them or can you suggest software package that will
> open flash player up please ? larry mc kenna.

It might be, that your repositories list doesn't include "non-free",
then apt-get etc. don't have access to packages that provide proprietary
packages. I didn't read thi, but you should do:
https://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer
However, my main distro is Arch Linux, it would be better if somebody
else explains you how to add the ability to install proprietary software
by your Debian or Ubuntu repositories.

If you manually downloaded a .deb you can install it by

su
cd /path/to/the/downloaded/package.deb
dpkg -i package.deb

Adobe Flash Player for Linux is outdated and Adobe claims they never
ever will update it again. If you want to use Linux and need "real"
Adobe Flash support, you better install google-chrome.

https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/

For many flash crap you don't need Adobe Flash, even if a website should
claim this, you simply can ignore such messages. HTML5 capable browser,
e.g. Firefox/Iceweasel often can play flash crap without this plugin,
then you don't need google-chrome.

Please, don't reply off-list, don't top post and don't use HTML :),
don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining "to someone who sent" me "a
carbon copy when" I "did not ask for it" as mentioned by
http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct , I suspect you are a
newbie and need to learn some things, that's why I reply to the list and
Cc to you.

Hth,
Ralf



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IOMMU issues workaround (was Re: realtek r8189 driver problem on 64 bit kernel)

[Wackojacko]

On 12/10/13 16:49, Wackojacko wrote:

On 12/10/13 16:37, Gary Dale wrote:

On 12/10/13 11:03 AM, Wackojacko wrote:

On 12/10/13 15:32, Gary Dale wrote:


I had a similar problem but fixed it by enabling IOEMU in the BIOS of
my Gigabyte 970A-D3P.

I assume you mean IOMMU, I had already enabled this a few minutes 
before

you suggested it but it didn't appear to work at first. However, I have
just rebooted again and the network has come up so thankyou.

Enabling this has given me a new problem in that my usb 3.0 now doesn't
work :-( I get lots of messages like this in dmesg

AMD-Vi: Event logged [IO_PAGE_FAULT device=02:00.0 domain=0x0014
address=0xbea01740 flags=0x0010]

and lspci shows

02:00.0 USB controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. Device 3483 (rev 01)

I prefer network and no usb 3.0 but I'd like both so I'll look in the
BIOS again to see if there's anything I can change to see if it helps.

Thanks

Wackojacko



I'm having exactly the same problem. Let me know if you get it to work.


Ah ok, will do but it looks like a kernel bug in amd64 because these 
problems don't exist with 32 bit.


Thanks to Gary, and a bit of googling IOMMU issues, it appears this is 
common on Gigabyte M/B's and if a BIOS update doesn't work (none 
available in my case) then try appending iommu=soft to the kernel 
options in grub.  Using this option I have USB 3.0 and Network using the 
stock amd64 kernel.


HTH

Wackojacko


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Re: Problems creating preseed.cfg - syntax?

[Curt]

On 2013-10-14, Richard Owlett  wrote:
>
> There is evidently an additional package required to use all the 
> features of "debconf-get-selections".
>
> After installing debconf-utils my command bombed with an error 
> message from a perl script.

It would have been informative and perhaps even edifying to know what
that error was. 


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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude) - OT

[Miles Fidelman]

Joel Rees wrote:


--
Joel Rees

Be careful where you see conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart.


First look for the s.

(Couldn't resist.)

--
/Never attribute/  to malice that which is adequately explained by/stupidity/.


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Re: Problems creating preseed.cfg - syntax?

[Richard Owlett]

Curt wrote:

On 2013-10-13, Richard Owlett  wrote:


Unfortunately when I try bash responds "command not found".


apt-get install debconf-utils

http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/all/debconf-utils/filelist




There is evidently an additional package required to use all the 
features of "debconf-get-selections".


After installing debconf-utils my command bombed with an error 
message from a perl script.
http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/all/debconf-utils/filelist 
reminded me where to look for documentation. The documentation 
there led me to download the another package of documentation.


Something in my un-recorded chain of actions caused me to do a 
Synaptic search for the string "debconf-". I installed all items 
which seemed possibly relevant. Even those explicitly labeled as 
tools for a different DE (I have Xfce installed). My 
debconf-get-selections command then worked.


I'll chase down what was actually required and follow up with a 
bug report if required.




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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 09:59 +0200, Helmut Wollmersdorfer wrote:
> Just for interest: Why does it damage the drives?

GVFS does wake up sleeping drives without reason, this does cause a high
amount of spin ups and spin downs. Most drives die regarding to the spin
ups, also without GVFS. Really, if a drive dies it most of the times is
regarding to the amount of spin ups, broken controllers etc. happen much
less often. I guess everybody knows the click-clikc noise of some broken
drives. This is what happens after a while, caused by the spin ups. It
should take many years before a drive dies this way, but using GVFS it
will die very soon, regarding to the insane wake ups.


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Re: Debian mirror analysis by release

[Tom Grace]

On 13/10/13 11:10, Andre Majorel wrote:

Is there a program out there that will scan a Debian mirror
(E.G. created by debmirror) and, for each file in it, list the
release(s) by which it's used ?


It's not quite what you want, but you can look in (for example)
ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/main/binary-amd64/Packages.bz2

This lists every file used by the stable release on the mirror, and if 
required you could search through a collection of these files to find 
the release which uses a given file.



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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)

[Joe]

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 07:53:50 +1300
Chris Bannister  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 09:19:18PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> > > though most include routers and other
> > > useless stuff.
> > 
> >  ..when it is normally customary to refer to them as routers.
> > Pedants might call them modem-routers, but nobody else does. 
> 
> Um, you can get routers without a modem, so the difference is
> important and not just pedantry!
> 

Yes. I know that as well, having two myself. But I am unusual in that
respect, as exceedingly few homes or small-to-medium size businesses
have any need for even one.

In the large majority of networks, 'router' is taken to mean the (A)DSL
modem-router-DNS-server-DHCP-server-firewall-etc that plugs into the
telephone line.

-- 
Joe


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Re: Oops - copied iso image to wrong device

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 10:52:33PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> The dd command was recommended on the off-chance GRUB might be put on 
> the drive now or in the future; it will refuse to install.

I see, I didn't know that, thank you. Apparently grub-setup is the
bit that complains, and it can be made to disregard the check with
the '-s' flag; however it seems non-trivial to pass -s through to
grub-setup from install-grub, and if you were using something like
d-i or another installer perhaps impossible. So, using dd is a
sensible, pragmatic suggestion.


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Re: who could take the time to figure out how to contact linux ? so complicated !

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 17:22 +1100, Charlie wrote:
> HTH to show you that Debian is not responsible for Ubuntu.

 Debian is responsible for many package names used by Ubuntu,
since Ubuntu is based on Debian snapshots. 

However, the OP seemingly is a newbie. I won't confuse the OP and write
about flashplayer and other things, such as Debian isn't Ubuntu, so I
started to give a hint, how to search for software. IMO Synaptic is very
good, it's a GUI and provides to search for software groups IIRC.

I suspect I confused the OP too, by using terms such as "upstream",
anyway, there's a learning curve for Linux, for a newbie accustomed to
nowadays Microsoft or Apple it can not be used that easy as those OSes.

All the attempts to fake this Micosoft and Apple
pseudo-user-friendliness are a PITA and aren't good for Linux. Indeed
Ubuntu by default ships with software centre or what ever this crap is
called.

It's very simple, depending to the usage Linux usually is better than
Microsoft and Apple, but Linux needs administration. The approach to
provide an OS that fakes not to need administration does cause all the
problems with Microsoft and Apple. They fake something that is
impossible. Some Linux distributions try to fake it too, most worse
seems to be Ubuntu and regarding to this Ubuntu ships with all it's
drawbacks, but also with some advantages.

May it as it be, the OP should be aware, that using Linux requires a
learning curve that isn't needed for Micosoft and Apple. _And very
important_ is that Linux is neither a competitor, nor a replacement
to/for Microsoft and Apple. Linux, the kernel and user space for Linux,
IOW the programs that can be used with Linux, are something completely
different to Microsoft and Apple.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Installing Cinnamon 2.0

[Helmut Wollmersdorfer]

Am 11.10.2013 um 21:19 schrieb Ralf Mardorf :

> On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 20:44:11 +0200, Tom H  wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Ralf Mardorf
>>  wrote:
>> 
> 
>>> GVFS is absolutely optional software.
>> 
>> You only ever consider things from your limited use-case
> 
> No.
> 
>> Simply because you mount external drives manually
>> or via udev-without-gvfs, doesn't mean that this is the best way for
>> the majority.
> 
> It's better to install software that damages the drives instead?
> Why not making it optional, as it's done for Xfce's Thunar?

Just for interest: Why does it damage the drives?

My usual use-cases are: Have some external HDDs dedicated for music, foto-this, 
foto-that, a dozen of USB-sticks, and a dozen of SD-cards for cameras etc.

Data is copied between them, i.e. I plug in the device, open the file-browser 
etc. Then unmount/remove the storage media. As I need to do this cross-OS 
(Debian, Win XP/7, OSX), both Win and OSX write their hidden files crap on the 
devices.

Helmut Wollmersdorfer


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Re: ukash hijacked iceweasel

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 14:15 +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
> What? does everyone have their menus turned off?
> 
> (Edit menu -> Preferences -> Contents tab -> disable JavaScript.
> Or am I missing something here?)

I didn't refer to Iceweasel for Debian, but tried to help the OP to
solve the issue and I wasn't booted into Debian, but Arch Linux. The
up-to-date version of Firefox doesn't support to disable javascript
anymore, resp. you only can do it using about:config and when doing
this, a warning is displayed, not to edit about:config.



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Re: linux debian

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 05:09 +0100, larry mckenna wrote:
> i looked through your soft ware packagwe list and found a strong snob
> tech speak for nerds why can you not be so eliist and name things the
> ordinary 5/8 th can read ?

You could use synaptic to search for software, e.g. by the keyword
"browser", if you want to know what browsers are available by the
repositories.

You also could use http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages
Search on: [x] Descriptions

If it's to confusing for you regarding to the split package policy of
Debian, you could switch to a distro, that doesn't split software from
upstream to several packages, e.g. Arch Linux.

Apart from that it's not the distro that makes the names for the
available software, it's upstream, IOW you need to ask the software
developers why they name their software as they do. You won't sent a
mail to Microsoft and ask them, why they call iTunes for Windows iTunes,
because this software isn't from Microsoft, or would you?

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: ukash hijacked iceweasel

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 07:11 +0400, recovery...@gmail.com wrote:
> This is outdated page indeed. Apparently Mozilla Foundation decided
> that it will be more user-friendly to double-click on
> 'javascript.enabled' at about:config page :)

I agree that the smartest way is to use an add-on, assumed a good one
for this purpose is installed or it should be ok for the OP to install
one, but if not IMO the way I described might cause less confusion,
since about:config warns:

"This might void your warranty!

Changing these advanced settings can be harmful to stability, security,
and performance. You should only continue if you are sure of what you're
doing.

[x] Show this warning next time
 "


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Re: ukash hijacked iceweasel

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 16:00 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> Install the extension/addon 'noscript'

As already mentioned, I don't want to install another add-on. If I need
javascript disabled, I can use another browser and if happens to me,
what happens to the OP, I'm fixing it the way I described. IOW my
intention was to point out, that modern Firefoxes don't provide an
option to disable javascript.

"I mean, why bother with complex solutions if there are simple ones?"

I also could have answered that Firefox don't provide such an option
anymore and that an add-on is needed.


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Re: [bulk]: who could take the time to figure out how to contact linux ? so complicated !

[Konrad Neitzel]

Hi Larry!

On Mon, 2013-10-14 at 05:13 +0100, larry mckenna wrote: 
> 
> hi folks, finding myself in limbo directly downloaded debian only to
> find i need flash player can download flash but can't install ! also
> tried to download other version of ubuntu and it downloads but get
> address not recognised or soft ware needs to be installed to allow
> install ! i looked through your soft ware packagwe list and found a
> strong snob tech speak for nerds why can you not be so eliist and name
> things the ordinary 5/8 th can read ?

> many thanks, common as muck larry mc kenna.

I understood that you installed debian on your system and that you are
missing the flash player. (Be aware that my description only covers
debian! If you have ubuntu installed on your system, then the
description simply does not fit!)

Flash player is available on Debian. There is even a wiki page about
this:
https://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer/

So you need to log in as root (which is also called System Administrator
when people refer to it but the login is root). And then install the
package with a command like
apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
(You could also use a software management tool for this task. I like to
use the Synaptic Package Manager.)
That should install it. If this solution does not help you, then please
come back with a deeper description. Tell us, what you did e.g. how did
you install debian? What kind of computer do you use. And so on.

And some more hints that might be useful:
a) at the beginning it might be a good idea to use the old OS and Linux
at the same time. One easy way to do this is to simply install them in
parallel and use grub to decide which os to start when the system boots.
That way you can always use the system if you encounter any problems.
(If you have a spare system, then this is not required of course!) When
Linux is up and running I would try to get the old os inside a VM.
VirtualBox could be used to run windows as vm.

b) You found this mailing list. That is great! Here are a lot of people
who really like to help you. But esp. at the beginning it might be hard
to find the correct wording to describe the problems you find. If
english is not your native language, then it can be really hard. So I
would suggest to look around if you can find other possibilities to find
help. Maybe friends of you also use Linux? Then you might talk with
them. Even if they might not be experts it is great because it is easier
to solve problems together.

c) Also be aware that there is a lot of documentation. You might find it
useful to read about Debian or Linux. Debian has the handbook which is
available for free. Reading such a book will also tell you the wording
that is used. (It is not an elite speaking. But each technical area has
its own items which all have its name.)

d) Try to get familiar with search engines like google. Often you can
solve problems with a quick search (e.g. search for "debian install
flash" and you will find the debian wiki page in the top mosts results).
This is something I like to do to quickly find an answer. That way I do
not have to wait for others to reply to my question.

With kind regards,

Konrad

-- 
Konrad Neitzel 


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