Re: please mention the Debian Auditor on the organization page

[Sam Hocevar]

On Tue, Jul 10, 2007, Florian Weimer wrote:

> >Attached is a patch to mention the Debian Auditor position on the
> > organization page.
> 
> Is this a delegation?  In that case, would you please announce it on
> -project, please?

   Sure, I was planning to do so after the webpage was updated but I
guess it doesn't hurt to do it now.

> The message that created that position,
> ,
> does not unambiguously state that this is a delegation.

   This one makes it clearer and was also signed:

 http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2006/10/msg5.html

Regards,
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please mention the Debian Auditor on the organization page

[Sam Hocevar]

   Attached is a patch to mention the Debian Auditor position on the
organization page. It's a bit "high" in the list, but since it's the
closest we have to a treasurer it doesn't strike me as inconsistent
to put it close to the secretary. Feel free to disagree and suggest
something else.

   I asked for an auditor generic alias to be added (RT#135) but since
there are more urgent tickets I don't want to wait for that to happen
before the web page is updated.

-- 
Sam.
Index: english/intro/organization.data
===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/english/intro/organization.data,v
retrieving revision 1.247
diff -u -r1.247 organization.data
--- english/intro/organization.data	30 Jun 2007 13:42:03 -	1.247
+++ english/intro/organization.data	10 Jul 2007 10:28:00 -
@@ -57,6 +57,8 @@
 Anthony Towns
   Secretary> 
 Manoj Srivastava
+  Auditor>
+
 
 
 

patch to the leader contact information

[Sam Hocevar]

   Hello, attached is a patch that updates the recommended languages
for the leader contact information.

   I was unable to do the Japanese and Russian translations because I
have no idea what tool to use to get the proper encoding. I also left a
comment (not sure about the syntax, there might be a more appropriate
one for comments) for when the next leader is elected so that he/she
doesn't receive too much gibberish :-)

Regards,
-- 
Sam.
Index: ./portuguese/devel/leader.wml
===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/portuguese/devel/leader.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.13
diff -u -r1.13 leader.wml
--- ./portuguese/devel/leader.wml	4 May 2007 04:01:51 -	1.13
+++ ./portuguese/devel/leader.wml	10 Jul 2007 10:07:07 -
@@ -59,8 +59,8 @@
 
 Informações para Contato
 
-Contate o Líder do Projeto Debian enviando uma mensagem em inglês para
-.
+Contate o Líder do Projeto Debian enviando uma mensagem em espanhol,
+inglês, francês ou alemão para .
 
 
 Sobre Nosso Líder Atual
Index: ./german/devel/leader.wml
===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/german/devel/leader.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.13
diff -u -r1.13 leader.wml
--- ./german/devel/leader.wml	8 May 2007 17:17:20 -	1.13
+++ ./german/devel/leader.wml	10 Jul 2007 10:07:08 -
@@ -63,8 +63,8 @@
 
 Kontakt-Informationen
 
-Kontaktieren Sie den Debian-Projektleiter durch E-Mails in
-Englisch an .
+Kontaktieren Sie den Debian-Projektleiter durch E-Mails in Deutsch,
+Französisch, Englisch oder Spanisch an .
 
 
 Über unseren aktuellen Leiter
Index: ./italian/devel/leader.wml
===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/italian/devel/leader.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.9
diff -u -r1.9 leader.wml
--- ./italian/devel/leader.wml	26 Apr 2007 19:47:10 -	1.9
+++ ./italian/devel/leader.wml	10 Jul 2007 10:07:08 -
@@ -64,7 +64,7 @@
 Contatti
 
 Si può contattare il leader del progetto Debian mandando un'e-mail in
-Inglese a .
+Francese, Spagnolo, Inglese o Tedesco a .
 
 
 Il nostro leader attuale
Index: ./spanish/devel/leader.wml
===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/spanish/devel/leader.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.10
diff -u -r1.10 leader.wml
--- ./spanish/devel/leader.wml	28 Apr 2007 20:14:08 -	1.10
+++ ./spanish/devel/leader.wml	10 Jul 2007 10:07:08 -
@@ -63,7 +63,7 @@
 Información de contacto
 
 se puede contactar con el líder del proyecto enviando un correo en
-inglés a .
+español, francés, inglés o alemán a .
 
 
 Sobre nuestro líder actual
Index: ./danish/devel/leader.wml
===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/danish/devel/leader.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.13
diff -u -r1.13 leader.wml
--- ./danish/devel/leader.wml	26 Apr 2007 16:59:45 -	1.13
+++ ./danish/devel/leader.wml	10 Jul 2007 10:07:08 -
@@ -58,8 +58,8 @@
 
 Kontaktoplysninger
 
-Kontakt projektlederen ved at sende en e-mail på engelsk til 
-.
+Kontakt projektlederen ved at sende en e-mail på tysk, engelsk, fransk og
+spansk til .
 
 
 Om vores nuværende leder
Index: ./english/devel/leader.wml
===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/english/devel/leader.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.15
diff -u -r1.15 leader.wml
--- ./english/devel/leader.wml	25 Apr 2007 12:10:48 -	1.15
+++ ./english/devel/leader.wml	10 Jul 2007 10:07:08 -
@@ -57,8 +57,10 @@
 
 Contact information
 
-Contact the Debian Project Leader by sending e-mail in English to
-.
+
+Contact the Debian Project Leader by sending e-mail in English, Spanish,
+French or German to .
 
 
 About Our Current Leader
Index: ./french/devel/leader.wml
===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/french/devel/leader.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.22
diff -u -r1.22 leader.wml
--- ./french/devel/leader.wml	25 May 2007 21:11:26 -	1.22
+++ ./french/devel/leader.wml	10 Jul 2007 10:07:08 -
@@ -70,7 +70,7 @@
 Information pour le contacter
 
 Contacter le Chef du projet en envoyant un courrier électronique en
-anglais à .
+français, anglais, espagnol ou allemand à .
 
 
 À propos de notre Chef actuel

Re: Inconsistency on translated pages links.

[Sam Hocevar]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2007, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:

> >Having a cookie to store the language choice as soon as the user
> > clicks on the language name or a little flag icon,
> 
>  Please read up in the archives (even in the recent threads) about why
> flags for language selection are a _very_ bad idea.

   ACK.

> > and have this cookie override the browser content negociation settings
> > seems extremely reasonable to me.
> 
>  Can you try to figure out the required ressources for that approach?
> And overriding is a bad idea like I tried to point out, but it might
> make partly sense with in addition to the browser setting.

   A user action ("let me browse this site in $LANG now") overriding the
settings does not sound like a bad idea to me.

> >o Not wanting to browse the Debian website in French because I'm not
> >  satisfied with the translations but still wanting to see all other
> >  websites in French?
> 
>  Invalid - please don't shut your eyes from the problems but work on
> them.  :P

   Sorry, no. I'd probably accept that if I was the only reader for the
site, but I am not.

> >o Using a web browser that does not support content negociation
> 
>  And what one would that be?  One from this millenium, please.

   I may have missed where it's done, but I cannot get it to work with
Liferea's integrated browser, which means w.d.o links aren't in the same
language when accessed from my RSS feeds and with my other browsers.

Cheers,
Sam.
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Re: Inconsistency on translated pages links.

[Sam Hocevar]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2007, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:

>  w.d.o isn't the only content negotiation using site out there, and I
> don't see why we shouldn't try to educate the users in that way - in
> fact tell them that they are lying to their browser about their
> preference, so why we should let them live with a lie?

   Purity and education is good, but do we want to shove that down our
users' throats? They are not even our users, there are Windows users
interested in learning about Debian and we should not refuse to make it
easier for them.

   Also, w.d.o may not be the only site using content-negociation, but
since not all pages are translated you always end up seeing English at
some point.

>  Besides, what would you really store there?  You most propably can
> store only a _single_ language after clicking such a link, and end up
> with well undefined behavior if one of the following pages isn't
> translated into that language and get complaints about that again.

   This is trivially worked around by prepending a note saying "Sorry,
the page you requested is not available in $LANGUAGE, we're showing the
English version instead" at the top of untranslated pages.

   Having a cookie to store the language choice as soon as the user
clicks on the language name or a little flag icon, and have this cookie
override the browser content negociation settings seems extremely
reasonable to me. Everyone is happy.

> > What if they want to change the preferred language only for a
> > particular session?
> 
>  And what would be the reasoning behind such a wish?  How common would
> you see such a wish?

   o Lending my computer to my girlfriend
   o Using a public terminal
   o Not wanting to browse the Debian website in French because I'm not
 satisfied with the translations but still wanting to see all other
 websites in French?
   o Using a web browser that does not support content negociation

> > I understand your concern regarding technical complexity but usability
> > has a price.
> 
>  I don't see much usability enhancement by that suggestion, to be
> honest.

   I do see much. Not sure how common my views are, though.

Cheers,
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Re: Website Designs

[Sam Hocevar]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2007, Manoj Srivastava wrote:

> Ah.  If this is just about adding bling, and not about things
>  like removing security advisories from the top page to help lambda
>  users, then my interest in this efforts fade.  Please ignore the noise,
>  then.  I would be interested in a functional improvement to the
>  website, but am indifferent to subjective aesthetics.

   Now I feel like I drew you away, which wasn't the intention at all, I
was answering your concerns about http://wiki.debian.org/WebsiteLayout
but there are also discussions about both the site contents and its
organisation on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWebsiteDiscussion and on
this list which seem to be exactly what you wish to get involved into.

Regards,
Sam.
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Re: Website Designs

[Sam Hocevar]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2007, Manoj Srivastava wrote:

>Merely lists which web pages are in scope -- but nothing of the
>  audience. It also hand waves at the usual goodies: unified, accessible,
>  no javascript or flash, etc.  There is nothing concrete, or anything of
>  any real substance here, when it comes to real goals or a target
>  audience. 
> 
> [...]
> 
> So, since my telepathy powers are obviously on the blink, can
>  you tell me what the goals of the rewrite (apart from the 3 foot
>  buzzwords of accessibility, browser independence, restrict javascript)
>  are? What are we trying to achieve (well, apart from look prettier, and
>  perhaps reduce information presented [not sure about the last one]).

   As far as I am concerned, looking prettier is exactly what I'd like
to be achieved, nothing more. Please consider the layout change page a
way to achieve a unified, more appealing website.

   I do not believe there is a priority conflict, since changing the
layout is almost orthogonal to reorganising the website. They can be
separate projects. In fact, the former hardly qualifies as a rewrite,
since changing the layout could be done by only changing the CSS.

Regards,
-- 
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