Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
"Joseph" == Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Joseph If you have a 3dfx card, you probably should be using CVS Joseph DRI, which can be made not too painful (but will uglify Joseph your XF86Config-4 file a bit..) Is the same true for Voodoo5? -- Stephen "If I claimed I was emporer just cause some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Thu, Mar 29, 2001 at 12:17:07AM -0800, Stephen Zander wrote: "Joseph" == Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Joseph If you have a 3dfx card, you probably should be using CVS Joseph DRI, which can be made not too painful (but will uglify Joseph your XF86Config-4 file a bit..) Is the same true for Voodoo5? Yes, the CVS drivers are faster (AIUI). The difference (empirically) appears to be more noticeable on machines which have slow CPUs, and hence tend to be CPU bound (like mine which is a K6-2 500, which has very poor FP performance compared to a PII of similar speed). Note that Mercury has made apt-able DRI cvs debs of X; these were announced to this list as well as debian-x, and I'm using them successfully here. Jules -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
Joseph == Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Joseph If you have a 3dfx card, you probably should be using CVS Joseph DRI, which can be made not too painful (but will uglify Joseph your XF86Config-4 file a bit..) Is the same true for Voodoo5? -- Stephen If I claimed I was emporer just cause some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Thu, Mar 29, 2001 at 12:17:07AM -0800, Stephen Zander wrote: Joseph If you have a 3dfx card, you probably should be using CVS Joseph DRI, which can be made not too painful (but will uglify Joseph your XF86Config-4 file a bit..) Is the same true for Voodoo5? Most assuredly. The Radeon is the one that seems to be having trouble. I don't think the driver is ready for release yet at least on some hardware. The DRI people are assuring me that it's just my specific hardware that has the problems though, so I could be wrong. -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED]Free software developer hop when you start making only stupid mistakes that are obvious, thats when you start getting competent hop because you don't make fundamental misunderstanding mistakes hop and thats a *good* sign. pgpbyig2TgpC8.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there any trouble with an old matrox millenium (2Mo+2Mo)? Other than the fact that that card won't do any kind of hardware accelerated 3D rendering on Linux, no, it's a really good card. Still one of the best ones at what it does. Only G200 and up do accelerated 3D rendering on Linux. -- Marcelo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
Marcelo E. Magallon schrieb: Only G200 and up do accelerated 3D rendering on Linux. Uh, well, "acceleration" might be exagerated for my G200 ... Really nice 2D card though. ciao, 2ri -- We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds. -- Linus Torvalds -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
GS You mean to say a Voodoo2 graphics card that is sold/marketed/used as a GS 3D only chipset, can be used under X4 as a '2D' card? With no other GS VESA/VGA card available? Yep. It's a ``shadowfb'' driver: all rendering is done in software to a ``shadow framebuffer'', and the updated area of the shadowfb is periodically blitted to the video card. On a typical PCI setup, a shadowfb driver is roughly fourfold faster than a plain unaccelerated driver because rendering operations don't need to cross the bus. (Advice to all users of the fbdev driver: add ``option shadowfb'' to your device section.) GS If the above is true, could you provide some pointers? All the material GS I've been able to find about V2 is mostly 'how to get quake/doom/etc to GS run on your V2 card and linux'. Man 4 glide? Juliusz
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: (Advice to all users of the fbdev driver: add ``option shadowfb'' to your device section.) That should be on by default. If not, it will soon be. :) -- Earthling Michel Dänzer (MrCooper)\ Debian GNU/Linux (powerpc) developer CS student, Free Software enthusiast \XFree86 and DRI project member
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: Ok, the design of the V3 chip is that if you try to talk to it about 3D while it is in the middle of doing 2D, or try to talk to it about 2D while it is doing 3D then you will have serious problems. (FWIW, almost all 2D/3D cards have the same.) Any questions? Yes. Is there any trouble with an old matrox millenium (2Mo+2Mo)? I never (almost) use any 3D or heavy graphics anyway, but I found that ssystem was very beautiful. And it does reboot my computer after a variable time, maybe five minutes, maybe half an hour... (in fullscreen mode)... -- Jean-Christophe Dubacq -- ATER en informatique à l'université de Caen Tel: 02 31 56 74 30 / 06 67 67 69 15 / 02 31 93 62 24 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.info.unicaen.fr/~jcdubacq/ Adresse: Jean-Christophe Dubacq, GREYC, Université de Caen, 14032 Caen Cedex
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there any trouble with an old matrox millenium (2Mo+2Mo)? Other than the fact that that card won't do any kind of hardware accelerated 3D rendering on Linux, no, it's a really good card. Still one of the best ones at what it does. Only G200 and up do accelerated 3D rendering on Linux. -- Marcelo
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
Marcelo E. Magallon schrieb: Only G200 and up do accelerated 3D rendering on Linux. Uh, well, acceleration might be exagerated for my G200 ... Really nice 2D card though. ciao, 2ri -- We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds. -- Linus Torvalds
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
* Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010324 13:48]: (FWIW, almost all 2D/3D cards have the same.) Uh. uh. ah. uh. Are you trying to say that windowed opengl with multiple opengl contexts and 2d-apps side-by-side doesn't work on most pc cards? Nvidia cards do it fine. -- Scott Dier [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@efnet "When's the last time you used duct tape on a duct?" -Larry Wall PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
Scott Dier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Uh. uh. ah. uh. Are you trying to say that windowed opengl with multiple opengl contexts and 2d-apps side-by-side doesn't work on most pc cards? Nvidia cards do it fine. No. He's saying that you have to pay attention to what you are doing at the driver level if you want to have multiple contexts. What do you think that kernel module you load does? If you get the chance, open two OpenGL contexts side by side on a SGI box. Very different experience. -- Marcelo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
* Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010324 13:48]: (FWIW, almost all 2D/3D cards have the same.) Uh. uh. ah. uh. Are you trying to say that windowed opengl with multiple opengl contexts and 2d-apps side-by-side doesn't work on most pc cards? Nvidia cards do it fine. -- Scott Dier [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ringworld.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] When's the last time you used duct tape on a duct? -Larry Wall pgpUaTHJRq53Z.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
Scott Dier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Uh. uh. ah. uh. Are you trying to say that windowed opengl with multiple opengl contexts and 2d-apps side-by-side doesn't work on most pc cards? Nvidia cards do it fine. No. He's saying that you have to pay attention to what you are doing at the driver level if you want to have multiple contexts. What do you think that kernel module you load does? If you get the chance, open two OpenGL contexts side by side on a SGI box. Very different experience. -- Marcelo
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:14:26PM +0100, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: "Zephaniah E. Hull" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You simply CAN NOT use mesag3-glide2 on a V3 with X4, it won't work. Uhm. Why? (if I'm going to be maintaining this, I'd like to know why it doesn't work with a specific setup, in particular, I'd like to know if this is a bug in mesa or a bug in glide2) Neither. It's that the X server and Glide2 would have to cooperate in order to let you do it. As of XFree4, X no longer knows how to talk to Glide2, but does know how to talk to Glide3. Evil, eh? -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED]Free software developer Crow_ hmm, is there a --now-dammit option for exim? PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 08:08:16PM +0100, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither. It's that the X server and Glide2 would have to cooperate in order to let you do it. As of XFree4, X no longer knows how to talk to Glide2, but does know how to talk to Glide3. Evil, eh? Then why does it work for V1 and V2? What you are saying sound like "there's no DRM for glide2". Maybe the bit of info I'm missing is why would I want to use glide2 instead of glide3 if I have a V3? I remember vaguely something along the lines of "all the V3s are equal, but some are more equal than others". Maybe I should go and buy myself a V1 or V2... Ok, the design of the V3 chip is that if you try to talk to it about 3D while it is in the middle of doing 2D, or try to talk to it about 2D while it is doing 3D then you will have serious problems. (FWIW, almost all 2D/3D cards have the same.) Thus the 2D code must know that you are doing 3D on the card, X3 knew about glide2, and worked with it to avoid these problems. X4 no longer knows about glide2, it knows about the DRI, which means that trying to use mesa3-glide2 on a V3 with X4 will result in a disaster. You can use a V1 and V2 just fine with it under X4 because X4 does not need to know anything about them, they are purely 3D cards which just pass-through the VGA signal normally, this is why they don't natively do 3D in a window. I suppose it might be worth looking at the tdfx driver to see if I can get it to know about glide2 again, as last I looked mesa3-glide2 + X3 was faster then DRI + X4 on the V3 (though, this may change with the DRI CVS code, which I should have packaged soon.). Any questions? Zephaniah E. Hull. (Just waking up, so not as clear as I could be, sorry.) -- Marcelo -- PGP EA5198D1-Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]-GPG E65A7801 Keys available at http://whitestar.soark.net/~warp/public_keys. CCs of replies from mailing lists are encouraged. }No. I just point out to troublemakers that I have an English degree, }which means that I am allowed to make changes to the English language. }(What _else_ could it possibly be for?) }Wow; in that case, my physics degree is *WAY* more useful than I }had thought. This just proves how useless a computer science degree is: there is hardly any useful science involved at all. I want my computer black magic degree! -- Victoria Swann, Jonathan Dursi, and D. Joseph Creighton on ASR PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the "glide" driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. You can use a V1 and V2 just fine with it under X4 because X4 does not need to know anything about them, What it needs to know about them is provided by libglide2-dev. What X4 doesn't try to do with those old cards is 3D acceleration. -- G. Branden Robinson |It was a typical net.exercise -- a Debian GNU/Linux|screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot [EMAIL PROTECTED] |on the pavement, where used to lie the http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |carcass of a dead horse. PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:20:09PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the "glide" driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. More accurately, I should have said the X4 tdfx driver no longer knows anything about glide2. Sadly, it is very likely non-trivial to get the tdfx driver working with both glide2 and DRI source wise, let alone run time. Zephaniah E. Hull. -- G. Branden Robinson |It was a typical net.exercise -- a Debian GNU/Linux|screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot [EMAIL PROTECTED] |on the pavement, where used to lie the http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |carcass of a dead horse. -- PGP EA5198D1-Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]-GPG E65A7801 Keys available at http://whitestar.soark.net/~warp/public_keys. CCs of replies from mailing lists are encouraged. OK, fine. You're arguing semantics, though. "arguing semantics" is not the same as "arguing nomenclature". My DI was very good at arguing semantics. He had this funny idea that an "unloaded" weapon was one that you had personally inspected and that the semantic difference mattered. Something about not wanting to do the paperwork of one of us killed someone with an unloaded weapon. Most technical debates are ultimately about semantics, but that doesn't mean that they are unimportant. -- Shmuel Metz and Steve Sobol on ASR. PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:20:09PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the "glide" driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. You mean to say a Voodoo2 graphics card that is sold/marketed/used as a 3D only chipset, can be used under X4 as a '2D' card? With no other VESA/VGA card available? If that's true that's great, I have a V2 sitting here doing nothing, don't play many games under Linux -). But I could use it build another computer that's missing a graphics card, and use gdm/xdm/kdm to boot straight to X4? You can use a V1 and V2 just fine with it under X4 because X4 does not need to know anything about them, What it needs to know about them is provided by libglide2-dev. What X4 doesn't try to do with those old cards is 3D acceleration. If the above is true, could you provide some pointers? All the material I've been able to find about V2 is mostly 'how to get quake/doom/etc to run on your V2 card and linux'. Thanks Gordon Sadler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, 24 Mar 2001 14:54:35 -0600 Gordon Sadler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:20:09PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the "glide" driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. You mean to say a Voodoo2 graphics card that is sold/marketed/used as a 3D only chipset, can be used under X4 as a '2D' card? With no other VESA/VGA card available? If that's true that's great, I have a V2 sitting here doing nothing, don't play many games under Linux -). But I could use it build another computer that's missing a graphics card, and use gdm/xdm/kdm to boot straight to X4? The Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 chips are designed mainly for 3D, but they are also capable of 2D. The reason that they aren't marketed for this is that their 2D performance is exceedingly slow (ie, unaccelerated) compared to cards that are actually designed to do 2D. The 2D capabilities of these cards is mainly intended for drawing in-game 2D displays, such as heads-up displays, status bars, etc. Use the `glide' driver in XFree86 4.x to use your Voodoo2 as the only video card. Regards, Alex. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 03:15:25PM -0800, Alexander Hvostov wrote: I have this problem too. After a while, X freezes while running _any_ OpenGL application. This means blender, GL screen savers, GL xmms plugins, etc. I'll assume you're running XFree4 since you didn't say otherwise. X freezes like this for me quite frequently. Branden claimed it was a kernel bug some months ago, but that was fixed and it still dies. A number of things cause it, but I never knew DRI to be one of them. Mozilla caused my uptimes to be measured in hours rather than weeks under recent XFree4 packages. With my new card (ATI Radeon) it's changing video modes (which anyone who has seen me work in X knows I spend 30% of my time in 640x480 or lower due to unreadably small, aliased fonts in things like Netscape..) The problem seems to be in short that damned near anything will cause X to lock up and stop responding. A suggestion to make your life a little easier is to renice XFree86 to 0. For some reason it gets -10 by default amd that's just pleading for a lockup to down the box if you don't have a convenient box to ssh in and fix it. The only way to recover from this is to login to the machine over the network, kill -9 X, and restart it (which, in my case, is done by gdm). However, doing this causes the text mode console to become totally screwed up; attempting to switch to the console works except that the display is still in graphics mode (with whatever X drew on the screen). This display doesn't get repainted, since all the software (the kernel and X) thinks the display is in text mode, but it really isn't. Switching back to X works fine though (ie, it repaints the screen and otherwise behaves normally). You can fix this by using the framebuffer console for your card. Except that most framebuffer drivers are not quite stable (like XFree4 it would seem) and very slow. For this reason, I've disabled DRI on my system until this problem gets fixed. It would be nice to have it fixed, since applications like blender get really slow without it... My hardware is a Creative 3D Blaster Banshee. The chip is 3Dfx Voodoo Banshee, PCI revision 3, part/serial/whatever number CT6760, 16 MB SDRAM on-board. It's attached to PCI (as you might have guessed). Because the freezes seem totally unpredictable (except of course that a GL application is running at the time of the freeze), I find this bug difficult to reproduce. I can reproduce it with XawTV, Ctrl-Alt-Grey+, and any DRI app which uses the VidMode extension. I can also do it with anything that creates shaped windows frequently (the OSD plugin for XMMS for example or some window manager themes) In short, it's really easy to get X to freeze. -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED]Free software developer Kethryvis Gruuk: UFies are above and beyond the human race :) pgpMJAwTF0O86.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
Alexander Hvostov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Package: mesag3-glide2 (debian/main) Maintainer: Marcelo E. Magallon [EMAIL PROTECTED] 74471 Open GL xscreensavers cause X to hang with 3DFX cards. I need help with this bug, I can't test this as I don't have TDFX hardware. For this reason, I've disabled DRI [...] Oh, I'm sorry, I should have said this more prominently: I need help reproducing this using the mesag3-glide2 package, not the DRI modules. Thanks, -- Marcelo
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: modes (which anyone who has seen me work in X knows I spend 30% of my time in 640x480 or lower due to unreadably small, aliased fonts in things like Netscape..) Just as a hint, Galeon let's you change the scaling of the fonts on a per page basis. -- Marcelo
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You simply CAN NOT use mesag3-glide2 on a V3 with X4, it won't work. Uhm. Why? (if I'm going to be maintaining this, I'd like to know why it doesn't work with a specific setup, in particular, I'd like to know if this is a bug in mesa or a bug in glide2) -- Marcelo
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:14:26PM +0100, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You simply CAN NOT use mesag3-glide2 on a V3 with X4, it won't work. Uhm. Why? (if I'm going to be maintaining this, I'd like to know why it doesn't work with a specific setup, in particular, I'd like to know if this is a bug in mesa or a bug in glide2) Neither. It's that the X server and Glide2 would have to cooperate in order to let you do it. As of XFree4, X no longer knows how to talk to Glide2, but does know how to talk to Glide3. Evil, eh? -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED]Free software developer Crow_ hmm, is there a --now-dammit option for exim? pgpj4kAUoJIWB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither. It's that the X server and Glide2 would have to cooperate in order to let you do it. As of XFree4, X no longer knows how to talk to Glide2, but does know how to talk to Glide3. Evil, eh? Then why does it work for V1 and V2? What you are saying sound like there's no DRM for glide2. Maybe the bit of info I'm missing is why would I want to use glide2 instead of glide3 if I have a V3? I remember vaguely something along the lines of all the V3s are equal, but some are more equal than others. Maybe I should go and buy myself a V1 or V2... -- Marcelo
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 08:08:16PM +0100, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither. It's that the X server and Glide2 would have to cooperate in order to let you do it. As of XFree4, X no longer knows how to talk to Glide2, but does know how to talk to Glide3. Evil, eh? Then why does it work for V1 and V2? What you are saying sound like there's no DRM for glide2. Maybe the bit of info I'm missing is why would I want to use glide2 instead of glide3 if I have a V3? I remember vaguely something along the lines of all the V3s are equal, but some are more equal than others. Maybe I should go and buy myself a V1 or V2... Ok, the design of the V3 chip is that if you try to talk to it about 3D while it is in the middle of doing 2D, or try to talk to it about 2D while it is doing 3D then you will have serious problems. (FWIW, almost all 2D/3D cards have the same.) Thus the 2D code must know that you are doing 3D on the card, X3 knew about glide2, and worked with it to avoid these problems. X4 no longer knows about glide2, it knows about the DRI, which means that trying to use mesa3-glide2 on a V3 with X4 will result in a disaster. You can use a V1 and V2 just fine with it under X4 because X4 does not need to know anything about them, they are purely 3D cards which just pass-through the VGA signal normally, this is why they don't natively do 3D in a window. I suppose it might be worth looking at the tdfx driver to see if I can get it to know about glide2 again, as last I looked mesa3-glide2 + X3 was faster then DRI + X4 on the V3 (though, this may change with the DRI CVS code, which I should have packaged soon.). Any questions? Zephaniah E. Hull. (Just waking up, so not as clear as I could be, sorry.) -- Marcelo -- PGP EA5198D1-Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]-GPG E65A7801 Keys available at http://whitestar.soark.net/~warp/public_keys. CCs of replies from mailing lists are encouraged. }No. I just point out to troublemakers that I have an English degree, }which means that I am allowed to make changes to the English language. }(What _else_ could it possibly be for?) }Wow; in that case, my physics degree is *WAY* more useful than I }had thought. This just proves how useless a computer science degree is: there is hardly any useful science involved at all. I want my computer black magic degree! -- Victoria Swann, Jonathan Dursi, and D. Joseph Creighton on ASR pgpCSJk3ssXcm.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the glide driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. You can use a V1 and V2 just fine with it under X4 because X4 does not need to know anything about them, What it needs to know about them is provided by libglide2-dev. What X4 doesn't try to do with those old cards is 3D acceleration. -- G. Branden Robinson |It was a typical net.exercise -- a Debian GNU/Linux|screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot [EMAIL PROTECTED] |on the pavement, where used to lie the http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |carcass of a dead horse. pgpMP0GSMF3uL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:20:09PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the glide driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. More accurately, I should have said the X4 tdfx driver no longer knows anything about glide2. Sadly, it is very likely non-trivial to get the tdfx driver working with both glide2 and DRI source wise, let alone run time. Zephaniah E. Hull. -- G. Branden Robinson |It was a typical net.exercise -- a Debian GNU/Linux|screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot [EMAIL PROTECTED] |on the pavement, where used to lie the http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |carcass of a dead horse. -- PGP EA5198D1-Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]-GPG E65A7801 Keys available at http://whitestar.soark.net/~warp/public_keys. CCs of replies from mailing lists are encouraged. OK, fine. You're arguing semantics, though. arguing semantics is not the same as arguing nomenclature. My DI was very good at arguing semantics. He had this funny idea that an unloaded weapon was one that you had personally inspected and that the semantic difference mattered. Something about not wanting to do the paperwork of one of us killed someone with an unloaded weapon. Most technical debates are ultimately about semantics, but that doesn't mean that they are unimportant. -- Shmuel Metz and Steve Sobol on ASR. pgp9KvnAc4dIa.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:20:09PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the glide driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. You mean to say a Voodoo2 graphics card that is sold/marketed/used as a 3D only chipset, can be used under X4 as a '2D' card? With no other VESA/VGA card available? If that's true that's great, I have a V2 sitting here doing nothing, don't play many games under Linux -). But I could use it build another computer that's missing a graphics card, and use gdm/xdm/kdm to boot straight to X4? You can use a V1 and V2 just fine with it under X4 because X4 does not need to know anything about them, What it needs to know about them is provided by libglide2-dev. What X4 doesn't try to do with those old cards is 3D acceleration. If the above is true, could you provide some pointers? All the material I've been able to find about V2 is mostly 'how to get quake/doom/etc to run on your V2 card and linux'. Thanks Gordon Sadler
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, 24 Mar 2001 14:54:35 -0600 Gordon Sadler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:20:09PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the glide driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. You mean to say a Voodoo2 graphics card that is sold/marketed/used as a 3D only chipset, can be used under X4 as a '2D' card? With no other VESA/VGA card available? If that's true that's great, I have a V2 sitting here doing nothing, don't play many games under Linux -). But I could use it build another computer that's missing a graphics card, and use gdm/xdm/kdm to boot straight to X4? The Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 chips are designed mainly for 3D, but they are also capable of 2D. The reason that they aren't marketed for this is that their 2D performance is exceedingly slow (ie, unaccelerated) compared to cards that are actually designed to do 2D. The 2D capabilities of these cards is mainly intended for drawing in-game 2D displays, such as heads-up displays, status bars, etc. Use the `glide' driver in XFree86 4.x to use your Voodoo2 as the only video card. Regards, Alex.
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:54:35PM -0600, Gordon Sadler wrote: You mean to say a Voodoo2 graphics card that is sold/marketed/used as a 3D only chipset, can be used under X4 as a '2D' card? With no other VESA/VGA card available? If that's true that's great, I have a V2 sitting here doing nothing, don't play many games under Linux -). But I could use it build another computer that's missing a graphics card, and use gdm/xdm/kdm to boot straight to X4? As I understand it, the answer to the above questions is yes. I've never tried it myself, though. [...] If the above is true, could you provide some pointers? All the material I've been able to find about V2 is mostly 'how to get quake/doom/etc to run on your V2 card and linux'. Probably the most straightforward thing to do is configure the xserver-xfree86 package using the debconf interface. Just select the glide driver. If xserver-xfree86 is already installed on such a box, just do: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 Selection of the driver module will be a high priority question. -- G. Branden Robinson | Why do we have to hide from the police, Debian GNU/Linux| Daddy? [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Because we use vi, son. They use http://www.debian.org/~branden/ | emacs. pgp2JJh01z1Zx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 08:08:16PM +0100, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: Neither. It's that the X server and Glide2 would have to cooperate in order to let you do it. As of XFree4, X no longer knows how to talk to Glide2, but does know how to talk to Glide3. Evil, eh? Then why does it work for V1 and V2? Because the V1 and V2 are not otherwise handled at all by X. What you are saying sound like there's no DRM for glide2. Maybe the bit of info I'm missing is why would I want to use glide2 instead of glide3 if I have a V3? I remember vaguely something along the lines of all the V3s are equal, but some are more equal than others. Maybe I should go and buy myself a V1 or V2... The V3 runs faster and more stably with Glide2 and XFree3 than Glide3 and XFree4. Branden would have to make frequent uploads of CVS versions to keep DRI in top shape. Given that DRI in the current packages is the only thing that the current X configuration stuff doesn't do for you (in fact it's rather hostile toward it - I suspect Branden hasn't figured out the gritty details of DRI yet due to time or indifference. If you have a 3dfx card, you probably should be using CVS DRI, which can be made not too painful (but will uglify your XF86Config-4 file a bit..) -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED]Free software developer doogie dpkg has bugs? no way! pgpzr760U9GeX.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:29:12 +0100 Marcelo E. Magallon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BugScan reporter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Package: mesag3-glide2 (debian/main) Maintainer: Marcelo E. Magallon [EMAIL PROTECTED] 74471 Open GL xscreensavers cause X to hang with 3DFX cards. I need help with this bug, I can't test this as I don't have TDFX hardware. I have this problem too. After a while, X freezes while running _any_ OpenGL application. This means blender, GL screen savers, GL xmms plugins, etc. The only way to recover from this is to login to the machine over the network, kill -9 X, and restart it (which, in my case, is done by gdm). However, doing this causes the text mode console to become totally screwed up; attempting to switch to the console works except that the display is still in graphics mode (with whatever X drew on the screen). This display doesn't get repainted, since all the software (the kernel and X) thinks the display is in text mode, but it really isn't. Switching back to X works fine though (ie, it repaints the screen and otherwise behaves normally). For this reason, I've disabled DRI on my system until this problem gets fixed. It would be nice to have it fixed, since applications like blender get really slow without it... My hardware is a Creative 3D Blaster Banshee. The chip is 3Dfx Voodoo Banshee, PCI revision 3, part/serial/whatever number CT6760, 16 MB SDRAM on-board. It's attached to PCI (as you might have guessed). Because the freezes seem totally unpredictable (except of course that a GL application is running at the time of the freeze), I find this bug difficult to reproduce. Regards, Alex.
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Alexander Hvostov wrote: I have this problem too. After a while, X freezes while running _any_ OpenGL application. This means blender, GL screen savers, GL xmms plugins, etc. The only way to recover from this is to login to the machine over the network, kill -9 X, and restart it (which, in my case, is done by gdm). However, doing this causes the text mode console to become totally screwed up; attempting to switch to the console works except that the display is still in graphics mode (with whatever X drew on the screen). This display doesn't get repainted, since all the software (the kernel and X) thinks the display is in text mode, but it really isn't. Switching back to X works fine though (ie, it repaints the screen and otherwise behaves normally). On the occasions when I've succeeded in breaking things horribly while GL was in use, I've found that loading the framebuffer module for my card restored the console to a usable state. For this reason, I've disabled DRI on my system until this problem gets fixed. It would be nice to have it fixed, since applications like blender get really slow without it... My hardware is a Creative 3D Blaster Banshee. The chip is 3Dfx Voodoo Banshee, PCI revision 3, part/serial/whatever number CT6760, 16 MB SDRAM on-board. It's attached to PCI (as you might have guessed). Because the freezes seem totally unpredictable (except of course that a GL application is running at the time of the freeze), I find this bug difficult to reproduce. I looked into this bug briefly during the first bug-squashing party this year, but since I didn't have my home machine (Voodoo3) set up to support DRI at the time, I couldn't verify it directly. Someone else on IRC then said they were using OpenGL on their 3dfx and it worked fine. I'm now running XFree 4.0.2-7, xlibmesa3 4.0.2-7, libglide3 2001.01.26-1, and xscreensaver-gl 3.29-3, and I'm not having any problems. I don't know if this helps fix the bug in mesag3-glide2... but it suggests that a workaround may be to use xlibmesa3 instead of mesag3. (Isn't the integrated XFree4 code the preferred GL driver anyway?) HTH, Steve Langasek postmodern programmer
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 11:29:12PM +0100, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: BugScan reporter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Package: mesag3-glide2 (debian/main) Maintainer: Marcelo E. Magallon [EMAIL PROTECTED] 74471 Open GL xscreensavers cause X to hang with 3DFX cards. I need help with this bug, I can't test this as I don't have TDFX hardware. The big question is which X server was he running. You simply CAN NOT use mesag3-glide2 on a V3 with X4, it won't work. However a simple conflicts won't work, because you CAN use mesag3-glide2 for a V1 or a V2 with X4, though glide for the V1 is still broken in sid. (It is an upstream issue, I hope to have time to mess with it soon though.) Zephaniah E. Hull. (The glide maintainer.) -- Marcelo -- PGP EA5198D1-Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]-GPG E65A7801 Keys available at http://whitestar.soark.net/~warp/public_keys. CCs of replies from mailing lists are encouraged. My kid brother tells me Visual Age for Java is the cat's pajamas I'm not a cat person, but I can just imagine the reaction of your average feline to someone's attempt to stuff it into a pair of pajamas. Now picture your hard disk after the thing installs. -- Berry Kercheval and Graham Reed on ASR. pgpY13YQdPqAM.pgp Description: PGP signature
