Re: About clutter-gtk and his lack of accessibility support
On 14 February 2013 19:08, Matthias Clasen matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote: gnome-color-manager-3.7.5-1.fc19.x86_64 This is using it for only one thing; the 3D gamut graph widget. Is there a more supported way to define a custom GTK widget that lets me embed a clutter actor? I'm using mash to render the 3D gamut model if that matters. Richard. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
About clutter-gtk and his lack of accessibility support
Sorry for the cross-posting, but not sure about the best list to send this. Background: AFAIK, clutter-gtk was always a proof of concept library. It was not really used by any core module, and the plans towards Gtk4 with respect to integrate gtk with clutter [1] basically announced his future death. For that reason, although it was on in my personal TODO, I never allocated too much time to fix the a11y aspects of that library. But, as it is not clear when that gtk-clutter integration will happen, some modules planned to use it towards GNOME 3.8. The poster boy there was gnome-documents, so suddenly that item increased its priority. Taking into account that there are just two weeks till freeze [2], my idea was use any of my spare time on clutter-gtk a11y. But today, talking with Cosimo, he mentioned that he dropped clutter-gtk dependency, and that probably other modules will follow. In case of someone wondering how much work adding a11y support on clutter-gtk is, after some research and IRC chatting with Emmanuele, it is doable but not trivial (anyway 3.8 is really near, so getting it finished during these two weeks would be complex, probably it would be postponed till 3.10). But sincerely, I'm not sure if all this really worth any effort at all. It is basically deprecated, recently dropped by some modules, and probably will be dropped soon by others. I only can think on Boxes as a module that doesn't have plans for that. And sincerely there are other places to put our any kind of a11y developing effort. In that sense, and looking to this problem from a different POV, one could argue that as there are already reasons to not use clutter-gtk, we could just say that not having a11y support is just another reason to not use it, and that the a11y team do not plan to solve that aspect on that support because clutter-gtk it is barely used. Doubts, doubts everywhere. So, I'm writing this mail to ask the opinion of others. Questions like, how relevant do you see clutter-gtk on the GNOME short-medium term? How many maintainers of core-apps plans to use it? Do someone thinks that using any kind of developing time on clutter-gtk really worths? BR [1] https://www.desktopsummit.org/program/sessions/gtk-4-future-your-favorite-toolkit [2] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2013-February/msg00024.html -- Alejandro Piñeiro Iglesias ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: About clutter-gtk and his lack of accessibility support
I use Clutter-GTK in gnome-initial-setup, but have been planning to drop it for performance concerns, and Owen's new paint clock and animations work means that it's no longer necessary. Note that gnome-initial-setup is not a core module for 3.8, and is included as a preview of sorts. Much more work, including accessibility testing, would be necessary before it becomes standard. On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Piñeiro apinhe...@igalia.com wrote: Sorry for the cross-posting, but not sure about the best list to send this. Background: AFAIK, clutter-gtk was always a proof of concept library. It was not really used by any core module, and the plans towards Gtk4 with respect to integrate gtk with clutter [1] basically announced his future death. For that reason, although it was on in my personal TODO, I never allocated too much time to fix the a11y aspects of that library. But, as it is not clear when that gtk-clutter integration will happen, some modules planned to use it towards GNOME 3.8. The poster boy there was gnome-documents, so suddenly that item increased its priority. Taking into account that there are just two weeks till freeze [2], my idea was use any of my spare time on clutter-gtk a11y. But today, talking with Cosimo, he mentioned that he dropped clutter-gtk dependency, and that probably other modules will follow. In case of someone wondering how much work adding a11y support on clutter-gtk is, after some research and IRC chatting with Emmanuele, it is doable but not trivial (anyway 3.8 is really near, so getting it finished during these two weeks would be complex, probably it would be postponed till 3.10). But sincerely, I'm not sure if all this really worth any effort at all. It is basically deprecated, recently dropped by some modules, and probably will be dropped soon by others. I only can think on Boxes as a module that doesn't have plans for that. And sincerely there are other places to put our any kind of a11y developing effort. In that sense, and looking to this problem from a different POV, one could argue that as there are already reasons to not use clutter-gtk, we could just say that not having a11y support is just another reason to not use it, and that the a11y team do not plan to solve that aspect on that support because clutter-gtk it is barely used. Doubts, doubts everywhere. So, I'm writing this mail to ask the opinion of others. Questions like, how relevant do you see clutter-gtk on the GNOME short-medium term? How many maintainers of core-apps plans to use it? Do someone thinks that using any kind of developing time on clutter-gtk really worths? BR [1] https://www.desktopsummit.org/program/sessions/gtk-4-future-your-favorite-toolkit [2] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2013-February/msg00024.html -- Alejandro Piñeiro Iglesias ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list -- Jasper ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: About clutter-gtk and his lack of accessibility support
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Piñeiro apinhe...@igalia.com wrote: Here is what I am seeing on my system right now: [mclasen@golem ~]$ rpm -q --whatrequires libclutter-gtk-1.0.so.0()(64bit) libchamplain-gtk-0.12.3-5.fc19.x86_64 cheese-libs-3.7.4-2.fc19.x86_64 totem-3.6.3-3.fc19.x86_64 cheese-3.7.4-2.fc19.x86_64 gnome-photos-3.7.3-4.fc19.x86_64 gnome-initial-setup-0.6-2.fc19.x86_64 eog-plugins-3.6.1-2.fc19.x86_64 gnome-games-gnibbles-3.6.1-2.fc19.x86_64 gnome-games-quadrapassel-3.6.1-2.fc19.x86_64 gnome-games-swell-foop-3.6.1-2.fc19.x86_64 gnome-games-lightsoff-3.6.1-2.fc19.x86_64 empathy-3.7.5-2.fc19.x86_64 gnome-color-manager-3.7.5-1.fc19.x86_64 gnome-boxes-3.7.5-1.fc19.x86_64 control-center-3.7.5.1-1.fc19.x86_64 sushi-3.7.5-1.fc19.x86_64 gnome-documents-3.7.5-1.fc19.x86_64 A few of these will probably follow the gnome-documents example and shed the clutter-gtk dependency in time for 3.8, and for some others, having the (small) clutter parts inaccessible may not be a big deal (e.g. the photo dialog in the user panel). It might help your decision to evaluate a few of these apps to see how much their accessibility is affected by clutter-gtk use - it might turn out that everything except for documents, boxes and photos is fine... and if those 3 move to pure gtk in time for 3.8, all is good. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: About clutter-gtk and his lack of accessibility support
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:08 PM, Matthias Clasen matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Piñeiro apinhe...@igalia.com wrote: Here is what I am seeing on my system right now: [mclasen@golem ~]$ rpm -q --whatrequires libclutter-gtk-1.0.so.0()(64bit) libchamplain-gtk-0.12.3-5.fc19.x86_64 cheese-libs-3.7.4-2.fc19.x86_64 totem-3.6.3-3.fc19.x86_64 cheese-3.7.4-2.fc19.x86_64 gnome-photos-3.7.3-4.fc19.x86_64 gnome-initial-setup-0.6-2.fc19.x86_64 eog-plugins-3.6.1-2.fc19.x86_64 gnome-games-gnibbles-3.6.1-2.fc19.x86_64 gnome-games-quadrapassel-3.6.1-2.fc19.x86_64 gnome-games-swell-foop-3.6.1-2.fc19.x86_64 gnome-games-lightsoff-3.6.1-2.fc19.x86_64 empathy-3.7.5-2.fc19.x86_64 gnome-color-manager-3.7.5-1.fc19.x86_64 gnome-boxes-3.7.5-1.fc19.x86_64 control-center-3.7.5.1-1.fc19.x86_64 sushi-3.7.5-1.fc19.x86_64 gnome-documents-3.7.5-1.fc19.x86_64 A few of these will probably follow the gnome-documents example and shed the clutter-gtk dependency in time for 3.8, and for some others, having the (small) clutter parts inaccessible may not be a big deal (e.g. the photo dialog in the user panel). It might help your decision to evaluate a few of these apps to see how much their accessibility is affected by clutter-gtk use - it might turn out that everything except for documents, boxes and photos is fine... and if those 3 move to pure gtk in time for 3.8, all is good. We're making extensive use of clutter-gtk in Boxes so moving away from it in time for 3.8 does not sound realistic. -- Regards, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) FSF member#5124 ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
