Re: Check your default window size!

[Emmanuele Bassi]

On 20 March 2018 at 17:35, Ernestas Kulik  wrote:

> On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 18:29 +0100, Alexandre Franke wrote:
> >
> > Somewhat related, since not too long ago (I’d say 3.26, maybe 3.24)
> > Nautilus randomly forgets it’s size and will open a very small window
> > (with the sidebar displayed, the content area fits slightly less than
> > a row in height and than 2 icons in width).
>
> Hmm, we’ve actually received reports of a different issue - restoring
> window *position* in multi-head environments was unreliable. I’ve fixed
> it up a little, but removed that feature altogether from the
> development branch. Any issues with restoring sizes are unexpected and
> I’d appreciate a ticket. :)
>

Restoring the window position should never be left to applications — first
and foremost because, on Wayland, you don't have access to the global
coordinate space, so you cannot position your windows anyway. Even the
sizing is kind of problematic, because the window manager is, ultimately,
the one with the complete view of the constraints applied to a top-level
window, so the toolkit (and applications) can only do so much.

We're still lacking a good way to handle session and application lifetime,
including restoring window position, size, and state for each application
top-level window. I've been working a bit on a design, but will probably
take a bit of time, and will definitely need some discussion with the Shell
and Wayland developers, as it'll need some additional protocol extension to
allow the compositor and toolkit to know which window is which, in an
application.

Ciao,
 Emmanuele.

-- 
https://www.bassi.io
[@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
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Re: Check your default window size!

[Alexandre Franke]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 6:35 PM, Ernestas Kulik  wrote:
> Hmm, we’ve actually received reports of a different issue - restoring
> window *position* in multi-head environments was unreliable. I’ve fixed
> it up a little, but removed that feature altogether from the
> Any issues with restoring sizes are unexpected and
> I’d appreciate a ticket. :)

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/nautilus/issues/314

-- 
Alexandre Franke
GNOME Hacker & Foundation Director
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Re: Check your default window size!

[Ernestas Kulik]

On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 18:29 +0100, Alexandre Franke wrote:
> 
> Somewhat related, since not too long ago (I’d say 3.26, maybe 3.24)
> Nautilus randomly forgets it’s size and will open a very small window
> (with the sidebar displayed, the content area fits slightly less than
> a row in height and than 2 icons in width).

Hmm, we’ve actually received reports of a different issue - restoring
window *position* in multi-head environments was unreliable. I’ve fixed
it up a little, but removed that feature altogether from the
development branch. Any issues with restoring sizes are unexpected and
I’d appreciate a ticket. :)
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Re: Check your default window size!

[Alexandre Franke]

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 10:49 PM,   wrote:
> Hi,

Hi,

> Sometimes it's easy for a developer to forget what a new user sees when
> opening an app for the first time. Some of our apps (*cough* email clients
> *cough*) have default window sizes that are waaay too small. Check yours
> out! Increase the default window size if needed.

At first I read the mail subject and was thinking “yes please!”, then
I read the rest of your mail and was caught by surprise. While I agree
that a minimum size needs to be large enough for an app to be useful,
my general observation is that many apps are actually too large (or at
least too wide) by default. On my 1050×1680 screen (yes, it’s narrower
than it is tall, aka portrait):
* Software opens with a bit that’s off screen (about the width of an
app tile) but can be resized to fit so I don’t see a valid reason for
the overflow.
* Recipes opens narrow enough, but then if I browse my way to a screen
with a sidebar (say “Indian cuisine”) it resizes and overflows too,
and this time I can’t resize it to fit even if I go back to a
sidebar-less screen.
* Evince regularly opens a window that’s too big for my any of my
screens, either in height or width. It seems Evince struggles with my
“2 monitors but not in a rectangle shape” layout and there are already
a few bug reports for that.

It seems many apps (re)implement their own window size and position
management with inconsistent behaviour. Maybe it’s time for a GNOME
goal to fix this situation?

Somewhat related, since not too long ago (I’d say 3.26, maybe 3.24)
Nautilus randomly forgets it’s size and will open a very small window
(with the sidebar displayed, the content area fits slightly less than
a row in height and than 2 icons in width).

P.S.: I know I should file bug reports/check for open ones and I dare
say I’m generally not bad at that, I just haven’t had time to collect
proper evidence for those yet so for now they’re just sticky notes on
my desk.

-- 
Alexandre Franke
GNOME Hacker & Foundation Director
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Re: Check your default window size!

[Germán Poo-Caamaño]

On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 09:21 +0100, Milan Crha wrote:
>   Hi,
> 
> On Mon, 2018-03-19 at 16:49 -0500, mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote:
> > Sometimes it's easy for a developer to forget what a new user sees
> > when opening an app for the first time.
> 
> I agree, the first impression is important.
> 
> > Some of our apps (*cough* email clients *cough*)
> 
> I hope you get better with that coughing soon, just do not
> underestimate it.
> 
> > have default window sizes that are waaay too small. Check yours
> > out!
> > Increase the default window size if needed.
> 
> Well, in case of Evolution, there is no default window size. What it
> opens with is the size calculated by gtk+, just like for any other
> dialog, thus the minimum required size for the widgets in the window.
> What might look odd with high-resolution devices is pretty fine for
> low-resolution devices. What is the correct default value then? I
> guess
> there's none good, none which would work for all devices.
> 
> Maybe "workaround" it by setting the window to open maximized by
> default? That's the way GNOME work flow looks like these days anyway,
> focus on one thing only, right? That won't work when user unmaximizes
> the window, but at least the first impression will be somewhat sane.

Please, no. Perhaps maximized vertically, not full screen. Epiphany
used to open the private window always maximized, after unmaximized
became a little window. It was very annoying in a not so big screen
(27"). I stopped using Epiphany because of that, and when that was
fixed, I was already used to Firefox. [1]

Try to find a sensible default, whatever that means ;-)


[1] I know this is only anecdata, so take it with a grain of salt.

-- 
Germán Poo-Caamaño
http://calcifer.org/

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Re: Check your default window size!

[Milan Crha]

Hi,

On Mon, 2018-03-19 at 16:49 -0500, mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote:
> Sometimes it's easy for a developer to forget what a new user sees
> when opening an app for the first time.

I agree, the first impression is important.

> Some of our apps (*cough* email clients *cough*)

I hope you get better with that coughing soon, just do not
underestimate it.

> have default window sizes that are waaay too small. Check yours out!
> Increase the default window size if needed.

Well, in case of Evolution, there is no default window size. What it
opens with is the size calculated by gtk+, just like for any other
dialog, thus the minimum required size for the widgets in the window.
What might look odd with high-resolution devices is pretty fine for
low-resolution devices. What is the correct default value then? I guess
there's none good, none which would work for all devices.

Maybe "workaround" it by setting the window to open maximized by
default? That's the way GNOME work flow looks like these days anyway,
focus on one thing only, right? That won't work when user unmaximizes
the window, but at least the first impression will be somewhat sane.
How can one do that in GSettings, when the key, which is used to store
the last window size, is declared as:



Can the  be expanded with any defaults from the linked schema?
Maybe it can, but I do not know it (the documentation for relocatable
schemas doesn't mention it and I do not want each key using this
relocatable schema to have the same defaults (all windows maximized by
default)) and I hesitate to do a change in the code to cover the
default values. 
Bye,
Milan
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Check your default window size!

[mcatanzaro]

Hi,

Sometimes it's easy for a developer to forget what a new user sees when 
opening an app for the first time. Some of our apps (*cough* email 
clients *cough*) have default window sizes that are waaay too small. 
Check yours out! Increase the default window size if needed.


Michael
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