Re: Guidance to avoid Tika's integration with Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler in production
Y. Will do. I'll be interested to compare the performance. One of the obvious pros of tika-server is that you can move Tika off your vm and m. :) The downside is that you have to manage it and open ports, which is simple in many applications and impossible in others. Once my refactoring is done, we should offer the use of the ForkParser within tika-server because tika-server is vulnerable to permanent hangs/oom... On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:35 PM, Luís Filipe Nassif wrote: > Hi Tim, > > Could you clarify the pros and cons between ForkParser (after your > refactoring) and TikaServer? Maybe we should send those to users list and > wiki... > > Thanks > > 2018-05-29 16:27 GMT-03:00 Tim Allison : > >> Ken, >> Once TIKA-2653 is done and 1.19(?) is released, I'll propose switching >> ERH to the ForkParser. There's also an open ticket for using tika-server. >> I think users should have both options. >> >> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:25 PM, Tim Allison wrote: >> >>> 1: CORRECTION: the ForkParser by itself (without my mods) will protect >>> against ooms, permanent hangs, and native lib crashing. My proposed mods >>> (on >>> TIKA-2653) only move the parser dependencies out of Solr's >>> dependencies. >>> >>> 2: note: Also, note the discussion on where to place this information. >>> Cassandra Targett advocates putting this guidance in the main users' guide. >>> >>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:22 PM, Tim Allison >>> wrote: >>> Y, my mods to the ForkParser should make it more robust, and will help with OOMs, permanent hangs and native lib crashing. But those changes are still in the works... On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:18 PM, Luís Filipe Nassif < lfcnas...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Ken, > > Threads will not help with OutOfMemoryErrors or crashes caused by > native > libs. ForkParser can help, after the refactoring started by Tim to > handle > some of its limitations. See TIKA-2653 > > 2018-05-29 16:11 GMT-03:00 Ken Krugler : > > > Thanks for the ref, Tim. > > > > I’m curious why SolrCell doesn’t fire up threads when parsing docs > with > > Tika (or use the fork parser), to mitigate issues with hangs & > crashes? > > > > — Ken > > > > > On May 29, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Tim Allison > wrote: > > > > > > All, > > > > > > Over the weekend, Shawn Heisey very kindly drafted a wikipage > about the > > > challenges of using Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler and the > guidance to > > > avoid it in production. > > > > > > I completely agree with this point, and I think that Shawn did a > very > > > nice job of capturing some of the challenges. If you have any > feedback > > or > > > would like to make edits, see: > > > > > > https://wiki.apache.org/solr/RecommendCustomIndexingWithTika > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > http://about.me/kkrugler > > +1 530-210-6378 > > > > > >>> >> >
Re: Guidance to avoid Tika's integration with Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler in production
Hi Tim, Could you clarify the pros and cons between ForkParser (after your refactoring) and TikaServer? Maybe we should send those to users list and wiki... Thanks 2018-05-29 16:27 GMT-03:00 Tim Allison : > Ken, > Once TIKA-2653 is done and 1.19(?) is released, I'll propose switching > ERH to the ForkParser. There's also an open ticket for using tika-server. > I think users should have both options. > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:25 PM, Tim Allison wrote: > >> 1: CORRECTION: the ForkParser by itself (without my mods) will protect >> against ooms, permanent hangs, and native lib crashing. My proposed mods (on >> TIKA-2653) only move the parser dependencies out of Solr's dependencies. >> >> 2: note: Also, note the discussion on where to place this information. >> Cassandra Targett advocates putting this guidance in the main users' guide. >> >> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:22 PM, Tim Allison wrote: >> >>> Y, my mods to the ForkParser should make it more robust, and will help >>> with OOMs, permanent hangs and native lib crashing. But those changes are >>> still in the works... >>> >>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:18 PM, Luís Filipe Nassif >> > wrote: >>> Hi Ken, Threads will not help with OutOfMemoryErrors or crashes caused by native libs. ForkParser can help, after the refactoring started by Tim to handle some of its limitations. See TIKA-2653 2018-05-29 16:11 GMT-03:00 Ken Krugler : > Thanks for the ref, Tim. > > I’m curious why SolrCell doesn’t fire up threads when parsing docs with > Tika (or use the fork parser), to mitigate issues with hangs & crashes? > > — Ken > > > On May 29, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Tim Allison wrote: > > > > All, > > > > Over the weekend, Shawn Heisey very kindly drafted a wikipage about the > > challenges of using Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler and the guidance to > > avoid it in production. > > > > I completely agree with this point, and I think that Shawn did a very > > nice job of capturing some of the challenges. If you have any feedback > or > > would like to make edits, see: > > > > https://wiki.apache.org/solr/RecommendCustomIndexingWithTika > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim > > > http://about.me/kkrugler > +1 530-210-6378 > > >>> >>> >> >
Re: Guidance to avoid Tika's integration with Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler in production
Ken, Once TIKA-2653 is done and 1.19(?) is released, I'll propose switching ERH to the ForkParser. There's also an open ticket for using tika-server. I think users should have both options. On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:25 PM, Tim Allison wrote: > 1: CORRECTION: the ForkParser by itself (without my mods) will protect > against ooms, permanent hangs, and native lib crashing. My proposed mods (on > TIKA-2653) only move the parser dependencies out of Solr's dependencies. > > 2: note: Also, note the discussion on where to place this information. > Cassandra Targett advocates putting this guidance in the main users' guide. > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:22 PM, Tim Allison wrote: > >> Y, my mods to the ForkParser should make it more robust, and will help >> with OOMs, permanent hangs and native lib crashing. But those changes are >> still in the works... >> >> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:18 PM, Luís Filipe Nassif >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Ken, >>> >>> Threads will not help with OutOfMemoryErrors or crashes caused by native >>> libs. ForkParser can help, after the refactoring started by Tim to handle >>> some of its limitations. See TIKA-2653 >>> >>> 2018-05-29 16:11 GMT-03:00 Ken Krugler : >>> >>> > Thanks for the ref, Tim. >>> > >>> > I’m curious why SolrCell doesn’t fire up threads when parsing docs with >>> > Tika (or use the fork parser), to mitigate issues with hangs & crashes? >>> > >>> > — Ken >>> > >>> > > On May 29, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Tim Allison >>> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > All, >>> > > >>> > > Over the weekend, Shawn Heisey very kindly drafted a wikipage about >>> the >>> > > challenges of using Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler and the guidance >>> to >>> > > avoid it in production. >>> > > >>> > > I completely agree with this point, and I think that Shawn did a >>> very >>> > > nice job of capturing some of the challenges. If you have any >>> feedback >>> > or >>> > > would like to make edits, see: >>> > > >>> > > https://wiki.apache.org/solr/RecommendCustomIndexingWithTika >>> > > >>> > > Cheers, >>> > > >>> > > Tim >>> > >>> > >>> > http://about.me/kkrugler >>> > +1 530-210-6378 >>> > >>> > >>> >> >> >
Re: Guidance to avoid Tika's integration with Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler in production
1: CORRECTION: the ForkParser by itself (without my mods) will protect against ooms, permanent hangs, and native lib crashing. My proposed mods (on TIKA-2653) only move the parser dependencies out of Solr's dependencies. 2: note: Also, note the discussion on where to place this information. Cassandra Targett advocates putting this guidance in the main users' guide. On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:22 PM, Tim Allison wrote: > Y, my mods to the ForkParser should make it more robust, and will help > with OOMs, permanent hangs and native lib crashing. But those changes are > still in the works... > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:18 PM, Luís Filipe Nassif > wrote: > >> Hi Ken, >> >> Threads will not help with OutOfMemoryErrors or crashes caused by native >> libs. ForkParser can help, after the refactoring started by Tim to handle >> some of its limitations. See TIKA-2653 >> >> 2018-05-29 16:11 GMT-03:00 Ken Krugler : >> >> > Thanks for the ref, Tim. >> > >> > I’m curious why SolrCell doesn’t fire up threads when parsing docs with >> > Tika (or use the fork parser), to mitigate issues with hangs & crashes? >> > >> > — Ken >> > >> > > On May 29, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Tim Allison >> wrote: >> > > >> > > All, >> > > >> > > Over the weekend, Shawn Heisey very kindly drafted a wikipage about >> the >> > > challenges of using Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler and the guidance >> to >> > > avoid it in production. >> > > >> > > I completely agree with this point, and I think that Shawn did a >> very >> > > nice job of capturing some of the challenges. If you have any >> feedback >> > or >> > > would like to make edits, see: >> > > >> > > https://wiki.apache.org/solr/RecommendCustomIndexingWithTika >> > > >> > > Cheers, >> > > >> > > Tim >> > >> > >> > http://about.me/kkrugler >> > +1 530-210-6378 >> > >> > >> > >
Re: Guidance to avoid Tika's integration with Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler in production
Hi Luis, Yes, threads can only mitigate (not solve) some (not all) of the problems. But they do help with hangs, which is why we use them when parsing docs with Tika in Hadoop jobs. Which is why I was curious why ERH didn’t take advantage of that approach, as it’s better than not using them. — Ken > On May 29, 2018, at 12:18 PM, Luís Filipe Nassif wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > Threads will not help with OutOfMemoryErrors or crashes caused by native > libs. ForkParser can help, after the refactoring started by Tim to handle > some of its limitations. See TIKA-2653 > > 2018-05-29 16:11 GMT-03:00 Ken Krugler : > >> Thanks for the ref, Tim. >> >> I’m curious why SolrCell doesn’t fire up threads when parsing docs with >> Tika (or use the fork parser), to mitigate issues with hangs & crashes? >> >> — Ken >> >>> On May 29, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Tim Allison wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> >>> Over the weekend, Shawn Heisey very kindly drafted a wikipage about the >>> challenges of using Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler and the guidance to >>> avoid it in production. >>> >>> I completely agree with this point, and I think that Shawn did a very >>> nice job of capturing some of the challenges. If you have any feedback >> or >>> would like to make edits, see: >>> >>> https://wiki.apache.org/solr/RecommendCustomIndexingWithTika >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>>Tim -- Ken Krugler +1 530-210-6378 http://www.scaleunlimited.com Custom big data solutions & training Flink, Solr, Hadoop, Cascading & Cassandra
Re: Guidance to avoid Tika's integration with Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler in production
Y, my mods to the ForkParser should make it more robust, and will help with OOMs, permanent hangs and native lib crashing. But those changes are still in the works... On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:18 PM, Luís Filipe Nassif wrote: > Hi Ken, > > Threads will not help with OutOfMemoryErrors or crashes caused by native > libs. ForkParser can help, after the refactoring started by Tim to handle > some of its limitations. See TIKA-2653 > > 2018-05-29 16:11 GMT-03:00 Ken Krugler : > > > Thanks for the ref, Tim. > > > > I’m curious why SolrCell doesn’t fire up threads when parsing docs with > > Tika (or use the fork parser), to mitigate issues with hangs & crashes? > > > > — Ken > > > > > On May 29, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Tim Allison wrote: > > > > > > All, > > > > > > Over the weekend, Shawn Heisey very kindly drafted a wikipage about > the > > > challenges of using Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler and the guidance to > > > avoid it in production. > > > > > > I completely agree with this point, and I think that Shawn did a very > > > nice job of capturing some of the challenges. If you have any feedback > > or > > > would like to make edits, see: > > > > > > https://wiki.apache.org/solr/RecommendCustomIndexingWithTika > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > http://about.me/kkrugler > > +1 530-210-6378 > > > > >
Re: Guidance to avoid Tika's integration with Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler in production
Having run a Solr service, you are striving to have quick response on queries and want to avoid anything that can pause the JVM. You work hard to make your updates quick and NRT. Text Extractions of XML based documents like Office and big object files like PDF are memory intensive and should be sandboxed on separate VMs. Regards, Dave > On May 29, 2018, at 12:11 PM, Ken Krugler wrote: > > Thanks for the ref, Tim. > > I’m curious why SolrCell doesn’t fire up threads when parsing docs with Tika > (or use the fork parser), to mitigate issues with hangs & crashes? > > — Ken > >> On May 29, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Tim Allison wrote: >> >> All, >> >> Over the weekend, Shawn Heisey very kindly drafted a wikipage about the >> challenges of using Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler and the guidance to >> avoid it in production. >> >> I completely agree with this point, and I think that Shawn did a very >> nice job of capturing some of the challenges. If you have any feedback or >> would like to make edits, see: >> >> https://wiki.apache.org/solr/RecommendCustomIndexingWithTika >> >> Cheers, >> >>Tim > > > http://about.me/kkrugler > +1 530-210-6378 > signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP
Re: Guidance to avoid Tika's integration with Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler in production
Related to this, do we have any guidance to help java users choosing between ForkParser or TikaServer? 2018-05-29 16:18 GMT-03:00 Luís Filipe Nassif : > Hi Ken, > > Threads will not help with OutOfMemoryErrors or crashes caused by native > libs. ForkParser can help, after the refactoring started by Tim to handle > some of its limitations. See TIKA-2653 > > 2018-05-29 16:11 GMT-03:00 Ken Krugler : > >> Thanks for the ref, Tim. >> >> I’m curious why SolrCell doesn’t fire up threads when parsing docs with >> Tika (or use the fork parser), to mitigate issues with hangs & crashes? >> >> — Ken >> >> > On May 29, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Tim Allison wrote: >> > >> > All, >> > >> > Over the weekend, Shawn Heisey very kindly drafted a wikipage about the >> > challenges of using Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler and the guidance to >> > avoid it in production. >> > >> > I completely agree with this point, and I think that Shawn did a very >> > nice job of capturing some of the challenges. If you have any feedback >> or >> > would like to make edits, see: >> > >> > https://wiki.apache.org/solr/RecommendCustomIndexingWithTika >> > >> > Cheers, >> > >> > Tim >> >> >> http://about.me/kkrugler >> +1 530-210-6378 >> >> >
Re: Guidance to avoid Tika's integration with Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler in production
Hi Ken, Threads will not help with OutOfMemoryErrors or crashes caused by native libs. ForkParser can help, after the refactoring started by Tim to handle some of its limitations. See TIKA-2653 2018-05-29 16:11 GMT-03:00 Ken Krugler : > Thanks for the ref, Tim. > > I’m curious why SolrCell doesn’t fire up threads when parsing docs with > Tika (or use the fork parser), to mitigate issues with hangs & crashes? > > — Ken > > > On May 29, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Tim Allison wrote: > > > > All, > > > > Over the weekend, Shawn Heisey very kindly drafted a wikipage about the > > challenges of using Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler and the guidance to > > avoid it in production. > > > > I completely agree with this point, and I think that Shawn did a very > > nice job of capturing some of the challenges. If you have any feedback > or > > would like to make edits, see: > > > > https://wiki.apache.org/solr/RecommendCustomIndexingWithTika > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim > > > http://about.me/kkrugler > +1 530-210-6378 > >
Re: Guidance to avoid Tika's integration with Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler in production
Thanks for the ref, Tim. I’m curious why SolrCell doesn’t fire up threads when parsing docs with Tika (or use the fork parser), to mitigate issues with hangs & crashes? — Ken > On May 29, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Tim Allison wrote: > > All, > > Over the weekend, Shawn Heisey very kindly drafted a wikipage about the > challenges of using Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler and the guidance to > avoid it in production. > > I completely agree with this point, and I think that Shawn did a very > nice job of capturing some of the challenges. If you have any feedback or > would like to make edits, see: > > https://wiki.apache.org/solr/RecommendCustomIndexingWithTika > > Cheers, > > Tim http://about.me/kkrugler +1 530-210-6378
Guidance to avoid Tika's integration with Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler in production
All, Over the weekend, Shawn Heisey very kindly drafted a wikipage about the challenges of using Solr's ExtractingRequestHandler and the guidance to avoid it in production. I completely agree with this point, and I think that Shawn did a very nice job of capturing some of the challenges. If you have any feedback or would like to make edits, see: https://wiki.apache.org/solr/RecommendCustomIndexingWithTika Cheers, Tim
