Re: [Django] #14570: New format character to represent locale-specifc alternative month names

[Django]

#14570: New format character to represent locale-specifc alternative month names
---+
  Reporter:  shell_dweller | Owner:  nobody   
Status:  new   | Milestone:  1.3  
 Component:  Internationalization  |   Version:  SVN  
Resolution:|  Keywords:  month, format
 Stage:  Unreviewed| Has_patch:  1
Needs_docs:  0 |   Needs_tests:  0
Needs_better_patch:  0 |  
---+
Comment (by shell_dweller):

 Suggestion to use pgettext instead of "_Month" makes good sense. I will
 adjust my patch accordingly.

 I do share the concern about introducing extra format character that is
 going to be used only by a limited number of locales. So for the record
 here's how this is done elsewhere:

 '''[http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/ POSIX]''' has no notion
 of "alternative month". Instead, there is a special conversion
 specification modifier (%O) that is used to represent alternative
 ''numbers'' (probably with languages such as Persian in mind). This is
 commonly used as a work around when an alternative month ''name''
 representation is required.

 In '''[http://babel.edgewall.org/wiki/Documentation/dates.html Babel]'''
 based on [http://unicode.org/reports/tr35/#Date_Format_Patterns LDML]
 specification various alternative representations of month names are
 achieved by character repetition, e.g., "" is usually the
 "alternative" month representation I'm talking about here. Note that there
 are two format characters for month: "L" (stand alone which would be an
 equivalent of what "F" is currently in Django) and a more generic "M"
 format (which would be an equivalent of my proposed "E" format).

 So basically this leaves us with two major options:

 1. Introduce a new format character

 2. Use some sort of extended notation (either though a modifier character
 of mere repetition)

 The benefit of 1 is simplicity of implementation (and use). Option 2
 requires more significant changes to the date formatting engine but is
 potentially more robust (e.g., can be easily extended towards alternative
 numeric representations for month, day, hour and so on without
 introduction of new format characters).

 Yet another option would be to adopt LDML notation with gradual phasing
 out the existing PHP based notation which is not particularly i18n
 friendly. This would be the most dramatic change of course.

 It would be very nice to get some feedback form the core team on this
 subject before I commit to providing my final patch.

-- 
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Re: [Django] #14570: New format character to represent locale-specifc alternative month names

[Django]

#14570: New format character to represent locale-specifc alternative month names
---+
  Reporter:  shell_dweller | Owner:  nobody   
Status:  new   | Milestone:  1.3  
 Component:  Internationalization  |   Version:  SVN  
Resolution:|  Keywords:  month, format
 Stage:  Unreviewed| Has_patch:  1
Needs_docs:  0 |   Needs_tests:  0
Needs_better_patch:  0 |  
---+
Changes (by claudep):

 * cc: cla...@2xlibre.net (added)
  * needs_better_patch:  => 0
  * needs_tests:  => 0
  * needs_docs:  => 0

Comment:

 I have some doubt about the "_Month" syntax used in your patch. We are
 currently working on pgettext support in ticket #9988. If it gets
 committed, you would then be able to take advantage of the new pgettext
 function to obtain amore standard contextual marker. More generally, I'm
 still a little worried by the extra strings you add even for languages
 that do not use the feature, but I don't see any other/better method to
 achieve the same goal.

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[Django] #14570: New format character to represent locale-specifc alternative month names

[Django]

#14570: New format character to represent locale-specifc alternative month names
--+-
 Reporter:  shell_dweller |   Owner:  nobody
   Status:  new   |   Milestone:  1.3   
Component:  Internationalization  | Version:  SVN   
 Keywords:  month, format |   Stage:  Unreviewed
Has_patch:  1 |  
--+-
 == Why this is required ==

 In certain locales "F" is not enough to represent full month name in long
 date formats. The reason is that "F Y" (e.g., "October 2010") and "F j Y"
 (e.g., "October 1 2010") will require two different grammatical forms for
 month name.

 This patch is useful for Greek and the majority of Slavic languages. Other
 languages may find use of it too.

 == Solution ==

 New format character is introduced to represent alternative locale
 specific month names. The choice of character is "E". Rationale:
 alphabetically it is the closest one to "F" that represents full month
 name.

 == TODO ==

 After this patch is committed to trunk I will create a patch for
 documentation and will notify translators.

 == Historical note ==

 This is a duplicate of ticket 12309 that was created and subsequently
 closed by me. At the time I reckoned that it would be better to use Babel
 for locale specific date representations. However, after careful
 consideration I changed my mind and I do believe this is a useful addition
 to Django because it follows batteries included principle, specially in
 view of new format localization rules introduced in 1.2

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