Re: [DNG] Technical overview of init systems

[Didier Kryn]

Le 09/08/2017 à 22:46, Joel Roth a écrit :

Edward,

I think that any articles that interest people in
exploring this part of their Linux systems can only
be good.

Edward Bartolo wrote:

Using this 'resource' will do a disservice to Devuan. Anyone serious
enough to read it will get the wrong impression that Devuan is some
'amateur' distribution not worthy of wasting professional hours on it.
Scientific and technical text must at all costs avoid opinionated
writing but this resource does the opposite. As said earlier, there is
no objective comparism between the different inits.
  


Despite what the author claims, this series of pages isn't about 
init. It is mostly about supervision and a little about containers. It 
assumes both are usefull, with no argumentation to motivate supervision. 
Confusion about init, supervision, and containers typically suggests 
that the author has been contaminated by systemd propaganda.



Also I don't like the style of this series of explanations; there 
is little content within a lot of decoration and structure. Clearly the 
author has tried all these supervisors but his explanations could be 
more detailed.


Didier


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Re: [DNG] qemu networking: Was Re: Just out of curiosity, I wondered,

[Ralph Ronnquist]

Svante Signell wrote on 10/08/17 00:16:

On Wed, 2017-08-09 at 22:45 +1000, Ralph Ronnquist wrote:

I prefer using a VDE setup, since that lets me run qemu as user (i.e.
not root)


With
-net nic -net user,hostfwd=tcp::5556-:22
you don't have to run anything as root as long as the forwarded port is higher
than 1024. Additionally for a second VM you can use a different port e.g.
hostfwd=tcp::5557-:22 etc. On one of my hosts I run 4 VMs, on another 5. All
works fine, just make sure you have enough RAM for all guests.


Yes, that "no host setup" approach is a good one for many use cases.

I'm not comfortable with the "user mode" networking, though; esp. it 
didn't perform well when I tried it. It's also a little troublesome when 
I move the (laptop) host between cable and wireless. And it brought me a 
couple of other opinionated thoughts when I tried it, so nowadays I 
always bring up a vde_switch (and a dns_masq for dhcp service) whether I 
run any VM or not :-)


Ralph.
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Re: [DNG] Technical overview of init systems

[Joel Roth]

Edward,

I think that any articles that interest people in 
exploring this part of their Linux systems can only 
be good.

Edward Bartolo wrote:
> Using this 'resource' will do a disservice to Devuan. Anyone serious
> enough to read it will get the wrong impression that Devuan is some
> 'amateur' distribution not worthy of wasting professional hours on it.
> Scientific and technical text must at all costs avoid opinionated
> writing but this resource does the opposite. As said earlier, there is
> no objective comparism between the different inits.
 
> -- 
> If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
> (Albert Einstein)
> If you cannot make abstructions about details you do not understand
> the concepts underlying them.
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-- 
Joel Roth
  

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[DNG] qemu networking: Was Re: Just out of curiosity, I wondered,

[Svante Signell]

On Wed, 2017-08-09 at 22:45 +1000, Ralph Ronnquist wrote:
> I prefer using a VDE setup, since that lets me run qemu as user (i.e. 
> not root)

With
-net nic -net user,hostfwd=tcp::5556-:22
you don't have to run anything as root as long as the forwarded port is higher
than 1024. Additionally for a second VM you can use a different port e.g.
hostfwd=tcp::5557-:22 etc. On one of my hosts I run 4 VMs, on another 5. All
works fine, just make sure you have enough RAM for all guests.
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Re: [DNG] Just out of curiosity, I wondered,

[Ralph Ronnquist]

I prefer using a VDE setup, since that lets me run qemu as user (i.e. 
not root), and it's easy to link up VM's across hosts with "virtual 
cables" over ssh. My qemu parameters are like this:


-net nic,macaddr=02:aa:bb:cc:dd:02
-net vde,sock=/tmp/vde.ctl

On the host, I have a vde_switch for /tmp/vde.ctl to a tap, owned by the 
user. Plus of course routing and such; the tap set up needs to be

done as root.

You can probably run a user qemo directly to a tap, but then you'll need 
separate taps for each VM. The VDE (vde2) method performs quite well, 
and lets me have several VM's through the same tap.


Ralph.

zap wrote on 09/08/17 07:28:

how do you enable internet in a virtual machine with qemu?

I wanted to try to see how effectively certain distros such as gnuinos
and vuu-do work through qemu with upgrading actually working...

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Re: [DNG] Just out of curiosity, I wondered,

[Simon Hobson]

Adam Borowski  wrote:

> My personal favourite is bridged mode, which has only an one-time setup
> cost, and makes guest VMs operate exactly same as if they were physically
> separate machines plugged into your ethernet switch next to the host.
> As a bonus, that setup cost is shared with lxc, which is also happy in
> such a bridged configuration.

And also the default for Xen, which as you say "just works".
It's also REALLY easy to have multiple bridges for multiple networks.

AIUI you can also use Open Vswitch and have VLAN support etc to the guests, but 
it's not something I've ever used.

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Re: [DNG] Technical overview of init systems

[Narcis Garcia]

El 09/08/17 a les 09:13, Edward Bartolo ha escrit:
> Using this 'resource' will do a disservice to Devuan. Anyone serious
> enough to read it will get the wrong impression that Devuan is some
> 'amateur' distribution not worthy of wasting professional hours on it.
> Scientific and technical text must at all costs avoid opinionated
> writing but this resource does the opposite. As said earlier, there is
> no objective comparism between the different inits.
> 

If reaching perfection is a requirement, important things will not be
reached.
Imagine Devuan 1.0 without still being released because of Gnome lack.
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Re: [DNG] Just out of curiosity, I wondered,

[Narcis Garcia]

El 08/08/17 a les 23:28, zap ha escrit:
> how do you enable internet in a virtual machine with qemu?
> 
> I wanted to try to see how effectively certain distros such as gnuinos
> and vuu-do work through qemu with upgrading actually working...
> 
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> 

I recommend you:
$ qemu-system-x86_64 -cpu host -enable-kvm -m 1024 -net
nic,model=rtl8139,vlan=0 -net user,vlan=0 -cdrom
devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_desktop-live.iso

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Re: [DNG] Technical overview of init systems

[Jaromil]

On Tue, 08 Aug 2017, Martin Steigerwald wrote:

> Adam Borowski - 08.08.17, 18:57:
> > On Tue, Aug 08, 2017 at 11:53:56AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> > > Be careful recommending cgroups.
> > > 
> > > I've never used them, and know little about them, but I know they were
> > > one of the main excuses for systemd.
> > 
> > Uhm, what?  Systemd uses ELF objects too, should we go with a.out for this
> > reason?
> > 
> > cgroups are a way to say "this group of processes may not use more than 2GB
> > memory".  How else would you ensure a misbehaving set of daemons / container
> > /etc does not bring down the rest of the system with it?
> 
> I agree that cgroups can be a useful feature. Yet… also a bit clumsy to use, 
> and not free of race conditions. That written, kernel developers are working 
> to fix part of the clumsyness and completely and all of the race conditions 
> by 
> unifying all cgroup controllers (memory, cpu and so on) in one directory tree.

is the sourcecode of systemd the *only* example implementation of an
INIT 1 daemon using cgroups right now?

here I see a lot of Go code
 https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93=cgroups=

so why systemd is considered to be the only supervisor implementation
supporting cgroups? because all the rest are just libraries?

I'm a bit confused and very curious

ciao!



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[DNG] Technical overview of init systems

[Edward Bartolo]

Using this 'resource' will do a disservice to Devuan. Anyone serious
enough to read it will get the wrong impression that Devuan is some
'amateur' distribution not worthy of wasting professional hours on it.
Scientific and technical text must at all costs avoid opinionated
writing but this resource does the opposite. As said earlier, there is
no objective comparism between the different inits.

-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
If you cannot make abstructions about details you do not understand
the concepts underlying them.
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