[Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea
I had posted on fedora-devel mailing list about this idea a while ago, but the discussion didn't last long: http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-development/266281-adding-new-group-desktop-menu-fedora-studio.html In short, currently all our audio/video players/editors are cluttering the Multimedia group of the desktop menu. Since players and editors are very different in nature and Audio/Video creation software have their own target audience, I am proposing to list them under a different group in the desktop menu. This way both type of applications will become more accessible. I am primarily interested in Audio Creation software and currently we have enough packages to have our own group: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AudioCreation To achieve this we will need to modify the desktop files of our packages to add some category which will be picked up by the menu applets and place them in the Audio Creation group. I am planning to make a new feature draft page on Fedora wiki in the near future and present it to FESCo so that we can have a Fedora Studio by F-12. There are a few choices we need to make along the way: - Should we include Video creation applications in this group too? - What shall we call the group in the menu? Studio, Audio Creation, A/V Creation...? - What desktop file category(ies) shall we use? The standard categories we can use are Midi, Mixer, Sequencer, Tuner, AudioVideoEditing. We can also use some artificial category such as X-Studio, X-AudioCreation, ... Note that when a desktop file contains AudioVideo the application goes to the Multimedia group. Who would want to participate in this project? Please share your comments, opinions, ... Orcan ___ Fedora-music-list mailing list Fedora-music-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list
Re: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea
On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 18:39 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > I had posted on fedora-devel mailing list about this idea a while ago, > but the discussion didn't last long: > http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-development/266281-adding-new-group-desktop-menu-fedora-studio.html > > In short, currently all our audio/video players/editors are cluttering > the Multimedia group of the desktop menu. Since players and editors > are very different in nature and Audio/Video creation software have > their own target audience, I am proposing to list them under a > different group in the desktop menu. This way both type of > applications will become more accessible. > > I am primarily interested in Audio Creation software and currently we > have enough packages to have our own group: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AudioCreation > > To achieve this we will need to modify the desktop files of our > packages to add some category which will be picked up by the menu > applets and place them in the Audio Creation group. > > I am planning to make a new feature draft page on Fedora wiki in the > near future and present it to FESCo so that we can have a Fedora > Studio by F-12. Planet CCRMA has had this (a custom menu) for years. Otherwise the "Sound and Video" menu becomes pretty much unusable once you install all the available packages. It would be good if you could start from this package, perhaps? And/or maintain backwards compatibility, I'd be game to modify what I'm using to match... > There are a few choices we need to make along the way: > > - Should we include Video creation applications in this group too? > - What shall we call the group in the menu? Studio, Audio Creation, > A/V Creation...? Multimedia Creation? Content Creation? (too broad perhaps) > - What desktop file category(ies) shall we use? The standard > categories we can use are Midi, Mixer, Sequencer, Tuner, > AudioVideoEditing. We can also use some artificial category such as > X-Studio, X-AudioCreation, ... Note that when a desktop file contains > AudioVideo the application goes to the Multimedia group. Maybe get some inspiration for categories from the planetccrma-menus package in Planet CCRMA? > Who would want to participate in this project? Please share your > comments, opinions, ... Count me in... -- Fernando ___ Fedora-music-list mailing list Fedora-music-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list
Re: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea
On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 18:39 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > >> - What desktop file category(ies) shall we use? The standard >> categories we can use are Midi, Mixer, Sequencer, Tuner, >> AudioVideoEditing. We can also use some artificial category such as >> X-Studio, X-AudioCreation, ... Note that when a desktop file contains >> AudioVideo the application goes to the Multimedia group. > > Maybe get some inspiration for categories from the planetccrma-menus > package in Planet CCRMA? > Oh yes, I forgot about that package because I have been only installing individual packages from PlanetCCRMA since Fedora 4 or 5. Although that package actually *is* what I am talking about, it would be nicer to provide this classification at the Fedora level, so that packages from different repos don't end up at different groups which would be going in the exact opposite direction we want to go. I will start writing the wiki page this week and report the status once I have enough material that can benefit from feedback. Cheers, Orcan ___ Fedora-music-list mailing list Fedora-music-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list
Re: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea
On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > Multimedia Creation? "Multimedia" is so 1992. My vote is for "Media Creation". ___ Fedora-music-list mailing list Fedora-music-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list
Re: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea
On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 16:24 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 18:39 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > > > >> - What desktop file category(ies) shall we use? The standard > >> categories we can use are Midi, Mixer, Sequencer, Tuner, > >> AudioVideoEditing. We can also use some artificial category such as > >> X-Studio, X-AudioCreation, ... Note that when a desktop file contains > >> AudioVideo the application goes to the Multimedia group. > > > > Maybe get some inspiration for categories from the planetccrma-menus > > package in Planet CCRMA? > > > > Oh yes, I forgot about that package because I have been only > installing individual packages from PlanetCCRMA since Fedora 4 or 5. > > Although that package actually *is* what I am talking about, it would > be nicer to provide this classification at the Fedora level, so that > packages from different repos don't end up at different groups which > would be going in the exact opposite direction we want to go. Of course, if it gets into Fedora proper then it is a major win for everybody. The suggestion/reminder is only for inspiration/backwards compatibility if possible. > I will start writing the wiki page this week and report the status > once I have enough material that can benefit from feedback. -- Fernando ___ Fedora-music-list mailing list Fedora-music-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list
Re: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea
> On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 16:24 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > >> I will start writing the wiki page this week and report the status >> once I have enough material that can benefit from feedback. > I did start writing the wiki page [1] last week but I got stuck at one point. It is not easy to make a good and fair classification. If we just take the AudioCreation software away and make a new group with them, and leave all the Audio/Video players, Digital Media and Video production software in Multimedia, it will be bad design. We need a better solution, which is not that easy to find. These are the types of software we have in the Multimedia group. - Audio Player - Video Player - Both Audio and Video Player - Digital (optical) Media Creation - Digital (optical) Media Ripping - Video Creation - Subtitle software - Audio Creation (which itself has many sub-categories) So how shall we do the branching? * A starting point would be separating Audio and Video. Then make "Players" and "Creation" subgroups an each. But then where will the CD/DVD creation/ripping stuff will go? * Another starting point would be to separate Creation stuff altogether, leaving all the players in Multimedia. Then the Creation group will contain both Audio and Video stuff. This is not a bad thing to do if the subgrouping is made logical. * Yet another starting point is, do not create another main group. Just do all the subgrouping inside Multimedia. I really can't decide which of the three to pick. Can I get some opinions here? In all the cases, we will have the issue of having some packages that belong to multiple subgroups. How shall we handle this? Orcan PS: I'm also CC'ing planetccrma list in case some users want to share their opinions. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/FedoraStudio ___ Fedora-music-list mailing list Fedora-music-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list
Re: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea
On 17/05/09 15:51, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: These are the types of software we have in the Multimedia group. The group seems to be called Sound & Video on my machine. And there is currently too many items in the menu to fit 2x screen height (2x768). * Yet another starting point is, do not create another main group. Just do all the subgrouping inside Multimedia. I'm thinking grouping as consumers (ie viewers, players), and producers (pre: capture|record|import|rip, manipulation: editing|compile|render, post: convert|production|output to file|streamer|titling). Some applications would cover all three areas, which makes this tricky (jacks of all trades). And some apps just tie multiple other apps together (DVD::RIP). Here is a possible layout; it is really just to solicit more opinions: --- bash-4.0$ tree --dirsfirst . === `-- Sound & Video |-- Capture & Import | |-- AV Demultiplexing | |-- Audio Recording | |-- CD Ripper | |-- DVD Ripper | |-- Flash Get | |-- Stream Recorder | |-- VNC Recorder | `-- Video Capture |-- Editing & Conversion | |-- Audacity | |-- Blender ? | |-- DVBcut | |-- Hydrogen | `-- Kino |-- Live Gig |-- Output Generation | |-- AV Multiplexing | |-- Audio Streamer | |-- CD Writer | |-- DVD Subtitler | |-- DVD Writer | |-- Format Changer | |-- K3B | `-- Video Streamer |-- Tools | |-- Instrument Tuner | `-- Metronome |-- Audio Mixer and Volume Control |-- Audio Player |-- Media Library |-- Video & TV Playback `-- Video Player === Cheers, DaveT. Sound & Video.tar.bz2 Description: application/bzip ___ Fedora-music-list mailing list Fedora-music-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list
Re: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea
Orcan Ogetbil wrote: On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 16:24 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: I will start writing the wiki page this week and report the status once I have enough material that can benefit from feedback. I did start writing the wiki page [1] last week but I got stuck at one point. It is not easy to make a good and fair classification. If we just take the AudioCreation software away and make a new group with them, and leave all the Audio/Video players, Digital Media and Video production software in Multimedia, it will be bad design. We need a better solution, which is not that easy to find. These are the types of software we have in the Multimedia group. - Audio Player - Video Player - Both Audio and Video Player - Digital (optical) Media Creation - Digital (optical) Media Ripping - Video Creation - Subtitle software - Audio Creation (which itself has many sub-categories) So how shall we do the branching? * A starting point would be separating Audio and Video. Then make "Players" and "Creation" subgroups an each. But then where will the CD/DVD creation/ripping stuff will go? * Another starting point would be to separate Creation stuff altogether, leaving all the players in Multimedia. Then the Creation group will contain both Audio and Video stuff. This is not a bad thing to do if the subgrouping is made logical. * Yet another starting point is, do not create another main group. Just do all the subgrouping inside Multimedia. I really can't decide which of the three to pick. Can I get some opinions here? In all the cases, we will have the issue of having some packages that belong to multiple subgroups. How shall we handle this? Good points, and David Timms also got a nice approach in another mail thread (even though, maybe a bit too extensive maybe?) Some software can be really difficult to categorise, especially if aligned along these directions. I'm just thinking out loud here now, please shoot these ideas down if they are useless. We are serving segments, one is big already and the other segment has a potential to be just as big: Consumer and Pro ... what do I mean here? Consumer: The "normal" computer user who wants different players, sounds, and video, and just playing with things just for fun. Pro: Those who want to use the computer for serious production, like composers, musicians, DJ's, whatever who needs high-quality experience. To oversimplify it: Consumers will be more than satisfied enough with PulseAudio, while Pro users who most probably want Jack instead. Could this be a better path to help grouping the software? F.ex. Totem, VLC, MPlayer - in this scheme, a reasonable place would be a "Consumer" group. While Rosegarden, Audacity, QSynth, different DJ software, Video editing, etc might fit better into a "Pro" group. But let's not call anything "Consumer" to the user, but rather stick to the "Sound & Video" group name as today. These two groups could then have subgroups, like Video, Audio/MIDI ... Maybe if more subgroups are wanted below this point, it should be considered to have two main groups for the pro-segment, like "Pro-Audio", "Pro-Video" and for consumer, a single "Sound & Video" group. The reason for not splitting up "Sound & Video" is becuase: where would VLC, MPlayer and Totem fit in, between audio and video ... For more single directed applications in the "consumer" group, it could of course have subcategories. In this approach, the "Pro" categories could also show up in the menu when Jack is installed. And as Jack most probably is a dependency to several Pro-targeted software packages, you get everything in place at once. Another thing for using the word "Pro" in these groups, is to emphasize that Linux is not just for geeks and amateurs, and that even less (Linux?) experienced pro-audio/video people will then catch the point - Linux might also be something for them. For marketing people in the Linux world, using the word "Pro" might be beneficial - as this description is still (I believe) heavily used in the music and video world today. But for a product to slip into the Pro-* groups, it really needs to be high-quality piece of product - or else it can easily backfire again and making Linux Pro-* effort a big joke. Just my few cents David S. ___ Fedora-music-list mailing list Fedora-music-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list
Re: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea
On Mon, 18 May 2009 13:32:42 +0200, David Sommerseth wrote: > Some software can be really difficult to categorise, especially if > aligned along these directions. I'm just thinking out loud here now, > please shoot these ideas down if they are useless. Just in case: nothing prevents you from putting one software package into several groups, e.g., kdepim and rpm-build are listed in 3 different groups in comps-f10.xml.in Cheers, Christian ___ Fedora-music-list mailing list Fedora-music-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list
Re: [Fedora-music-list] about the Fedora Studio idea
Hello folks, I updated the wiki page. Based on the feedback I got (especially David's opinions were quite inspiring) and stealing some ideas from planetccrma-menu package, I came up with this outline: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/FedoraStudio Note that this is by no means the final draft. Fell free to comment about it or even edit it yourself. Once (and if) we arrive at a general agreement here, I will bring the proposal into FESCo's attention. One thing you will notice in my categorization is: I didn't put any player in a subcategory. I thought that the players are the most commonly used application type and putting them directly in the Multimedia (Sound&Video in Gnome) group will make them easier to find. Let me know if you don't agree with me on this or on anything else. Cheers, Orcan ___ Fedora-music-list mailing list Fedora-music-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-music-list
