[Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

2008-06-22 Thread Ashim D'Silva
Hey,

I'm using the Flash IDE CS3 to produce a project in AS3, and Flash is
continually crashing erratically. Is there a way for me to figure out
what's causing it? I can't seem to tie it to any action or recreate
it, but it happens often enough to be a large problem. I would
normally think there isn't much I can do with AS to actually crash the
player, but it seems I have... Please help!

Cheers,

Ashim

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Re: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

2008-06-22 Thread mario gonzalez
I have that happen to me too ALL the time, once it starts on a project 
it's very very hard to track down.

Usually related to garbage collection it only crashes in the IDE right?

I wish i had better advice, but one thing you can do is when you test 
your movie, test using the debugger (control > debug movie (off my head) 
) instead... that way when it crashes it doesn't crash the whole flash 
IDE, just the debugger projector..



Ashim D'Silva wrote:

Hey,

I'm using the Flash IDE CS3 to produce a project in AS3, and Flash is
continually crashing erratically. Is there a way for me to figure out
what's causing it? I can't seem to tie it to any action or recreate
it, but it happens often enough to be a large problem. I would
normally think there isn't much I can do with AS to actually crash the
player, but it seems I have... Please help!

Cheers,

Ashim

--
Random Lines 3D
My online portfolio
www.therandomlines.com
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RE: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

2008-06-22 Thread Mecevit Gmail
I believe Flash Cs3 is not ready for serious projects.
Nowadays I am really having huge problems. It started with loading an
external swf, it begin to not to load the external swf all the times. While
I am working on it, i noticed that it is a bug after over 100 trys. And then
I am having problems casting objects. I can not cast my custom class
instance to its custom class. Flash gives me stupid errors.
Below is my bug report to Adobe. You can register and vote so that it can be
"fixed"
http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/ASC-3436

My advice is, like the big companies, game writers, DO NOT USER CS3 for your
commercial projects. There are really big problems that need to be solved,
but the worst is adobe engineers are not aware of that.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mario
gonzalez
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 9:42 AM
To: Flash Coders List
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

I have that happen to me too ALL the time, once it starts on a project 
it's very very hard to track down.
Usually related to garbage collection it only crashes in the IDE right?

I wish i had better advice, but one thing you can do is when you test 
your movie, test using the debugger (control > debug movie (off my head) 
) instead... that way when it crashes it doesn't crash the whole flash 
IDE, just the debugger projector..


Ashim D'Silva wrote:
> Hey,
>
> I'm using the Flash IDE CS3 to produce a project in AS3, and Flash is
> continually crashing erratically. Is there a way for me to figure out
> what's causing it? I can't seem to tie it to any action or recreate
> it, but it happens often enough to be a large problem. I would
> normally think there isn't much I can do with AS to actually crash the
> player, but it seems I have... Please help!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ashim
>
> --
> Random Lines 3D
> My online portfolio
> www.therandomlines.com
> ___
> Flashcoders mailing list
> Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
>   
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Re: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

2008-06-23 Thread Cedric Muller
I noticed Flash crashes very quickly when memory management is not  
done right. I am NOT implying that you did something wrong. I am just  
adding my observations to the thread.

Could it be memory management ?

Cedric


I believe Flash Cs3 is not ready for serious projects.
Nowadays I am really having huge problems. It started with loading an
external swf, it begin to not to load the external swf all the  
times. While
I am working on it, i noticed that it is a bug after over 100 trys.  
And then

I am having problems casting objects. I can not cast my custom class
instance to its custom class. Flash gives me stupid errors.
Below is my bug report to Adobe. You can register and vote so that  
it can be

"fixed"
http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/ASC-3436

My advice is, like the big companies, game writers, DO NOT USER CS3  
for your
commercial projects. There are really big problems that need to be  
solved,

but the worst is adobe engineers are not aware of that.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mario
gonzalez
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 9:42 AM
To: Flash Coders List
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

I have that happen to me too ALL the time, once it starts on a project
it's very very hard to track down.
Usually related to garbage collection it only crashes in the  
IDE right?


I wish i had better advice, but one thing you can do is when you test
your movie, test using the debugger (control > debug movie (off my  
head)

) instead... that way when it crashes it doesn't crash the whole flash
IDE, just the debugger projector..


Ashim D'Silva wrote:

Hey,

I'm using the Flash IDE CS3 to produce a project in AS3, and Flash is
continually crashing erratically. Is there a way for me to figure out
what's causing it? I can't seem to tie it to any action or recreate
it, but it happens often enough to be a large problem. I would
normally think there isn't much I can do with AS to actually crash  
the

player, but it seems I have... Please help!

Cheers,

Ashim

--
Random Lines 3D
My online portfolio
www.therandomlines.com
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Re: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

2008-06-23 Thread Cedric Muller

Memory management not done right = garbage collector piling up

I noticed Flash crashes very quickly when memory management is not  
done right. I am NOT implying that you did something wrong. I am  
just adding my observations to the thread.

Could it be memory management ?

Cedric


I believe Flash Cs3 is not ready for serious projects.
Nowadays I am really having huge problems. It started with loading an
external swf, it begin to not to load the external swf all the  
times. While
I am working on it, i noticed that it is a bug after over 100  
trys. And then

I am having problems casting objects. I can not cast my custom class
instance to its custom class. Flash gives me stupid errors.
Below is my bug report to Adobe. You can register and vote so that  
it can be

"fixed"
http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/ASC-3436

My advice is, like the big companies, game writers, DO NOT USER  
CS3 for your
commercial projects. There are really big problems that need to be  
solved,

but the worst is adobe engineers are not aware of that.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mario
gonzalez
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 9:42 AM
To: Flash Coders List
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

I have that happen to me too ALL the time, once it starts on a  
project

it's very very hard to track down.
Usually related to garbage collection it only crashes in the  
IDE right?


I wish i had better advice, but one thing you can do is when you test
your movie, test using the debugger (control > debug movie (off my  
head)
) instead... that way when it crashes it doesn't crash the whole  
flash

IDE, just the debugger projector..


Ashim D'Silva wrote:

Hey,

I'm using the Flash IDE CS3 to produce a project in AS3, and  
Flash is
continually crashing erratically. Is there a way for me to figure  
out

what's causing it? I can't seem to tie it to any action or recreate
it, but it happens often enough to be a large problem. I would
normally think there isn't much I can do with AS to actually  
crash the

player, but it seems I have... Please help!

Cheers,

Ashim

--
Random Lines 3D
My online portfolio
www.therandomlines.com
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Re: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

2008-06-23 Thread Ashim D'Silva
Oh, its very easily an issue with memory management because
regrettably that's one of the parts of AS3 I continue to have trouble
with. I try hard to pick up after myself (listeners, bitmapdata,
cancel loaders, close connections), and run ActiveGraph to get an
estimate. But how do you track it down once it's started!

I with I could switch to Flash Develop, but I'm on Mac, and I haven't
found an alternate IDE yet. Any ideas there maybe?

By the way, this is also killing my browser sometimes. So I'm in quite
a bit of trouble.
The last time I had a similar problem, it was to do with Flash Player.
Apparently masking a text field and then moving it under the mask
(scrolling) is bad. So you stick it in a container and then mask and
move that! I was hoping there was a limited amount of things that can
actually crash Flash, but then again...

2008/6/23 Cedric Muller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Memory management not done right = garbage collector piling up
>
>> I noticed Flash crashes very quickly when memory management is not done
>> right. I am NOT implying that you did something wrong. I am just adding my
>> observations to the thread.
>> Could it be memory management ?
>>
>> Cedric
>>
>>> I believe Flash Cs3 is not ready for serious projects.
>>> Nowadays I am really having huge problems. It started with loading an
>>> external swf, it begin to not to load the external swf all the times.
>>> While
>>> I am working on it, i noticed that it is a bug after over 100 trys. And
>>> then
>>> I am having problems casting objects. I can not cast my custom class
>>> instance to its custom class. Flash gives me stupid errors.
>>> Below is my bug report to Adobe. You can register and vote so that it can
>>> be
>>> "fixed"
>>> http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/ASC-3436
>>>
>>> My advice is, like the big companies, game writers, DO NOT USER CS3 for
>>> your
>>> commercial projects. There are really big problems that need to be
>>> solved,
>>> but the worst is adobe engineers are not aware of that.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mario
>>> gonzalez
>>> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 9:42 AM
>>> To: Flash Coders List
>>> Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes
>>>
>>> I have that happen to me too ALL the time, once it starts on a project
>>> it's very very hard to track down.
>>> Usually related to garbage collection it only crashes in the IDE
>>> right?
>>>
>>> I wish i had better advice, but one thing you can do is when you test
>>> your movie, test using the debugger (control > debug movie (off my head)
>>> ) instead... that way when it crashes it doesn't crash the whole flash
>>> IDE, just the debugger projector..
>>>
>>>
>>> Ashim D'Silva wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey,
>>>>
>>>> I'm using the Flash IDE CS3 to produce a project in AS3, and Flash is
>>>> continually crashing erratically. Is there a way for me to figure out
>>>> what's causing it? I can't seem to tie it to any action or recreate
>>>> it, but it happens often enough to be a large problem. I would
>>>> normally think there isn't much I can do with AS to actually crash the
>>>> player, but it seems I have... Please help!
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Ashim
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Random Lines 3D
>>>> My online portfolio
>>>> www.therandomlines.com
>>>> ___
>>>> Flashcoders mailing list
>>>> Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
>>>> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
>>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
>>> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
>>>
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>>> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
>>
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RE: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

2008-06-23 Thread Kerry Thompson
Ashim D'Silva wrote:

> I'm using the Flash IDE CS3 to produce a project in AS3, and Flash is
> continually crashing erratically. Is there a way for me to figure out
> what's causing it? 

I've had similar problems, and it has always turned out to be an infinite
loop, memory management, a null value, or something of the like.

The first thing to do is figure out _where_ it is crashing, then figure out
_why_

Some people prefer to use trace() statements. Personally, if it's not a
time-critical issue, I use the debugger. Since I started using Flash (F4), I
have found that the issue is inevitably in my coding. I'm not initializing a
variable; I'm using a class wrong; or I just plain had faulty logic.

It's not always easy, but it is seldom Flash's fault, though I often wish I
could blame the tool. Track your problem down to a specific code segment. If
it's failing for a reason you don't understand, post that code, with a
description of the problem, and we'll be glad to help. I'm afraid that you
have only given a very vague complaint, so we can only give vague answers at
this point.

Don't give up, though. Flash is a great tool--not perfect, but pretty darn
good. It's biggest problem is that it does what you tell it to, not what you
want it to.

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson

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Re: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

2008-06-23 Thread Ashim D'Silva
Thanks for the response Kerry. Makes me appreciate even more the work
that gets done in Flash. And although blaming the tool is easy enough
I'm pretty sure its in my code somewhere. However, all the problems
you mentioned I encounter often enough to spot. Plus Flash is helpful
enough to tell you where these are. I use traces profusely in
troublesome area's as well. But I'm just not being able to recreate my
problem, which is ofcourse frustrating. So I was hoping I could count
on some log somewhere so I know what was called; which class it was
called from; anything to pin it close to the problem spot. I've used
debugger (local and remote) but ofcourse, when it crashes, it crashes,
and there's no bread crumb trail...
If I could figure out what the problem was, there'd be the possibility
of diagnosis, till then I guess its blind testing and lots of comment
tags.

Cheers again!

Ash

2008/6/23 Kerry Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Ashim D'Silva wrote:
>
>> I'm using the Flash IDE CS3 to produce a project in AS3, and Flash is
>> continually crashing erratically. Is there a way for me to figure out
>> what's causing it?
>
> I've had similar problems, and it has always turned out to be an infinite
> loop, memory management, a null value, or something of the like.
>
> The first thing to do is figure out _where_ it is crashing, then figure out
> _why_
>
> Some people prefer to use trace() statements. Personally, if it's not a
> time-critical issue, I use the debugger. Since I started using Flash (F4), I
> have found that the issue is inevitably in my coding. I'm not initializing a
> variable; I'm using a class wrong; or I just plain had faulty logic.
>
> It's not always easy, but it is seldom Flash's fault, though I often wish I
> could blame the tool. Track your problem down to a specific code segment. If
> it's failing for a reason you don't understand, post that code, with a
> description of the problem, and we'll be glad to help. I'm afraid that you
> have only given a very vague complaint, so we can only give vague answers at
> this point.
>
> Don't give up, though. Flash is a great tool--not perfect, but pretty darn
> good. It's biggest problem is that it does what you tell it to, not what you
> want it to.
>
> Cordially,
>
> Kerry Thompson
>
> ___
> Flashcoders mailing list
> Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
>



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RE: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

2008-06-23 Thread Gregory Boudreaux
Is there a tutorial out there somewhere on how to use the debugger?  I
am fairly new to Flash and just use trace statements to find my
problems... but would like to learn more about the debugger.

gregb

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kerry
Thompson
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 5:05 AM
To: 'Flash Coders List'
Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

Ashim D'Silva wrote:

> I'm using the Flash IDE CS3 to produce a project in AS3, and Flash is
> continually crashing erratically. Is there a way for me to figure out
> what's causing it? 

I've had similar problems, and it has always turned out to be an
infinite
loop, memory management, a null value, or something of the like.

The first thing to do is figure out _where_ it is crashing, then figure
out
_why_

Some people prefer to use trace() statements. Personally, if it's not a
time-critical issue, I use the debugger. Since I started using Flash
(F4), I
have found that the issue is inevitably in my coding. I'm not
initializing a
variable; I'm using a class wrong; or I just plain had faulty logic.

It's not always easy, but it is seldom Flash's fault, though I often
wish I
could blame the tool. Track your problem down to a specific code
segment. If
it's failing for a reason you don't understand, post that code, with a
description of the problem, and we'll be glad to help. I'm afraid that
you
have only given a very vague complaint, so we can only give vague
answers at
this point.

Don't give up, though. Flash is a great tool--not perfect, but pretty
darn
good. It's biggest problem is that it does what you tell it to, not what
you
want it to.

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson

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Re: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

2008-06-23 Thread mario gonzalez

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RE: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

2008-06-23 Thread Kerry Thompson
Yes, those sporadic bugs can be the dickens to find and fix, usually because
the code that's causing the problems is far removed from the place where it
actually crashes. I remember spending a couple of days once on a crash bug.
I'd find a problem, only to find that it was being caused by something
earlier. I'd track that down, and find that it caused by something even
earlier. I had to write a flow chart on a white board to keep track of
everything that was going on.

I finally tracked it down to an unlikely source--the programmer who worked
on the project before me was doing a Boolean comparison on a value that
could sometimes be void. Void is neither true nor false, so it was setting
off a chain reaction, culminating in a crash somewhere down the line.

Those are the hardest, but can be the most satisfying. I convinced myself
about 10 times during the course of tracking down that bug that it was the
VM's fault, then I'd notice something, and I'd be off and running, chasing
that bug, slowly spiraling ever close to the true culprit.

Good luck!

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:flashcoders-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ashim D'Silva
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 7:55 AM
> To: Flash Coders List
> Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes
> 
> Thanks for the response Kerry. Makes me appreciate even more the work
> that gets done in Flash. And although blaming the tool is easy enough
> I'm pretty sure its in my code somewhere. However, all the problems
> you mentioned I encounter often enough to spot. Plus Flash is helpful
> enough to tell you where these are. I use traces profusely in
> troublesome area's as well. But I'm just not being able to recreate my
> problem, which is ofcourse frustrating. So I was hoping I could count
> on some log somewhere so I know what was called; which class it was
> called from; anything to pin it close to the problem spot. I've used
> debugger (local and remote) but ofcourse, when it crashes, it crashes,
> and there's no bread crumb trail...
> If I could figure out what the problem was, there'd be the possibility
> of diagnosis, till then I guess its blind testing and lots of comment
> tags.
> 
> Cheers again!
> 
> Ash
> 
> 2008/6/23 Kerry Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Ashim D'Silva wrote:
> >
> >> I'm using the Flash IDE CS3 to produce a project in AS3, and Flash is
> >> continually crashing erratically. Is there a way for me to figure out
> >> what's causing it?
> >
> > I've had similar problems, and it has always turned out to be an
infinite
> > loop, memory management, a null value, or something of the like.
> >
> > The first thing to do is figure out _where_ it is crashing, then figure
out
> > _why_
> >
> > Some people prefer to use trace() statements. Personally, if it's not a
> > time-critical issue, I use the debugger. Since I started using Flash
(F4), I
> > have found that the issue is inevitably in my coding. I'm not
initializing a
> > variable; I'm using a class wrong; or I just plain had faulty logic.
> >
> > It's not always easy, but it is seldom Flash's fault, though I often
wish I
> > could blame the tool. Track your problem down to a specific code
segment. If
> > it's failing for a reason you don't understand, post that code, with a
> > description of the problem, and we'll be glad to help. I'm afraid that
you
> > have only given a very vague complaint, so we can only give vague
answers at
> > this point.
> >
> > Don't give up, though. Flash is a great tool--not perfect, but pretty
darn
> > good. It's biggest problem is that it does what you tell it to, not what
you
> > want it to.
> >
> > Cordially,
> >
> > Kerry Thompson
> >
> > ___
> > Flashcoders mailing list
> > Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
> > http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
> >
> 
> 
> 
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> My online portfolio
> www.therandomlines.com
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Re: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

2008-06-23 Thread Ashim D'Silva
Aha! That seems highly likely. I shall continue with renewed vigour. Cheers.

2008/6/24 Kerry Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Yes, those sporadic bugs can be the dickens to find and fix, usually because
> the code that's causing the problems is far removed from the place where it
> actually crashes. I remember spending a couple of days once on a crash bug.
> I'd find a problem, only to find that it was being caused by something
> earlier. I'd track that down, and find that it caused by something even
> earlier. I had to write a flow chart on a white board to keep track of
> everything that was going on.
>
> I finally tracked it down to an unlikely source--the programmer who worked
> on the project before me was doing a Boolean comparison on a value that
> could sometimes be void. Void is neither true nor false, so it was setting
> off a chain reaction, culminating in a crash somewhere down the line.
>
> Those are the hardest, but can be the most satisfying. I convinced myself
> about 10 times during the course of tracking down that bug that it was the
> VM's fault, then I'd notice something, and I'd be off and running, chasing
> that bug, slowly spiraling ever close to the true culprit.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Cordially,
>
> Kerry Thompson
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:flashcoders-
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ashim D'Silva
>> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 7:55 AM
>> To: Flash Coders List
>> Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes
>>
>> Thanks for the response Kerry. Makes me appreciate even more the work
>> that gets done in Flash. And although blaming the tool is easy enough
>> I'm pretty sure its in my code somewhere. However, all the problems
>> you mentioned I encounter often enough to spot. Plus Flash is helpful
>> enough to tell you where these are. I use traces profusely in
>> troublesome area's as well. But I'm just not being able to recreate my
>> problem, which is ofcourse frustrating. So I was hoping I could count
>> on some log somewhere so I know what was called; which class it was
>> called from; anything to pin it close to the problem spot. I've used
>> debugger (local and remote) but ofcourse, when it crashes, it crashes,
>> and there's no bread crumb trail...
>> If I could figure out what the problem was, there'd be the possibility
>> of diagnosis, till then I guess its blind testing and lots of comment
>> tags.
>>
>> Cheers again!
>>
>> Ash
>>
>> 2008/6/23 Kerry Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> > Ashim D'Silva wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'm using the Flash IDE CS3 to produce a project in AS3, and Flash is
>> >> continually crashing erratically. Is there a way for me to figure out
>> >> what's causing it?
>> >
>> > I've had similar problems, and it has always turned out to be an
> infinite
>> > loop, memory management, a null value, or something of the like.
>> >
>> > The first thing to do is figure out _where_ it is crashing, then figure
> out
>> > _why_
>> >
>> > Some people prefer to use trace() statements. Personally, if it's not a
>> > time-critical issue, I use the debugger. Since I started using Flash
> (F4), I
>> > have found that the issue is inevitably in my coding. I'm not
> initializing a
>> > variable; I'm using a class wrong; or I just plain had faulty logic.
>> >
>> > It's not always easy, but it is seldom Flash's fault, though I often
> wish I
>> > could blame the tool. Track your problem down to a specific code
> segment. If
>> > it's failing for a reason you don't understand, post that code, with a
>> > description of the problem, and we'll be glad to help. I'm afraid that
> you
>> > have only given a very vague complaint, so we can only give vague
> answers at
>> > this point.
>> >
>> > Don't give up, though. Flash is a great tool--not perfect, but pretty
> darn
>> > good. It's biggest problem is that it does what you tell it to, not what
> you
>> > want it to.
>> >
>> > Cordially,
>> >
>> > Kerry Thompson
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Flashcoders mailing list
>> > Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
>> > http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Random Lines 3D
>> My online portfolio
>> www.therandomlines.com
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Re: [Flashcoders] Flash player crashes

2008-06-24 Thread Abe Pazos

Also hard to find can be internal compiler errors.

Last week a few hours before the deadline, both FlexBuilder
and FlashDevelop where spitting internal / java errors.
No idea where to look at. No file / line numbers. You start
wondering... is it the operating system? a virus? The compiler
was damaged? What did I do wrong?
If it wasn't for SVN, finding this: 


switch(someValidVar) {
}

(without "case:") in a 5 line program could have taken a long time.

Don't do it :)


Kerry Thompson wrote:

I finally tracked it down to an unlikely source--the programmer who worked
on the project before me was doing a Boolean comparison on a value that
could sometimes be void. Void is neither true nor false, so it was setting
off a chain reaction, culminating in a crash somewhere down the line.
  


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